New Driveway Construction

[FF117]

Is it a laser or optical? What's the model so I can check it out? I have one of those spinning laser things but that's all I have at the moment. I also need to level my pole barn site and trying to learn how to do that.

I remember somebody on this site attached the laser receiver to a piece of lumber then bolted it to his box blade so that he could keep the box blade at a consistent height while leveling a pad for something. Might be just what you need.

 

[RDrancher]

Ran into an issue today. Stopped into rental store to change reservation date on the sheep's for compactor and found out that they had a smooth drum reserved for me instead. I specifically asked for the pad foot when I made the reservation. Actually we had a lengthy discussion about it and they had to bring it in from another store. Not sure where the breakdown happened but now I'm stuck. I called around and the only sheep's foot available is a small trench compactor that is pretty light and not very wide. Should I go ahead and try the vibrating smooth drum or try to compact using my tractor? Just worried that the smooth drum would be a waste of time and money, but maybe it's better than nothing. Soil is clay and I need to make a decision soon. Any input is appreciated.

If you know anyone with a dump truck, see if you can get them to wheel roll it. Better if the truck is loaded. If not, I would load the bucket and wheel roll it with your tractor. Either way you'll probably need to touch it up with your box blade afterwards. After you have it the way you want it, you'll able to tell if you still need to run the smooth drum compactor over it. With clay soil and truck rolled, I don't think you'll need it.

 

[hutchman]

If you know anyone with a dump truck, see if you can get them to wheel roll it. Better if the truck is loaded. If not, I would load the bucket and wheel roll it with your tractor. Either way you'll probably need to touch it up with your box blade afterwards. After you have it the way you want it, you'll able to tell if you still need to run the smooth drum compactor over it. With clay soil and truck rolled, I don't think you'll need it.

That's kind of what I was planning on doing. In VA all we have is red clay and I have a class 7 dump truck (32K GVW) that weighs 7.5 tons empty and plan to just run that over it ... I got a permit to carry 8 ton on it (normally I could only do 6 ton thanks to some Federal single axle bridge law) so hopefully that will be good enough.

 

[FF117]

If you know anyone with a dump truck, see if you can get them to wheel roll it. Better if the truck is loaded. If not, I would load the bucket and wheel roll it with your tractor. Either way you'll probably need to touch it up with your box blade afterwards. After you have it the way you want it, you'll able to tell if you still need to run the smooth drum compactor over it. With clay soil and truck rolled, I don't think you'll need it.

Unfortunately I don't know anyone with a dump truck that will have time in the next couple of days. I rolled it with a loaded bucket on my tractor today with mixed results. It's been warm and windy here so the clay is like rocks and doesn't want to pack. I'm a little concerned about the soil on the top of the hill. It looks like clay and works up like clay, but after it's exposed and dried out it turns into dust and doesn't want to pack. It seems similar to top soil but is slightly different in color, but not as orange as the good clay. Hopefully I dug down deep enough. I'm down 8" in most places and I dug another 6" with a shovel with no change in soil type, so guess it is what it is at this point.

I stopped back in the rental store and they cut me a deal on the compactor. I'm going to rent the smooth drum this weekend to compact the dirt, return it for a couple days while the rock is hauled in, then rent it again to compact the gravel. Hopefully it does a good enough job with the dirt. I also ordered a load of 3" clean to put in the ditch in an effort to prevent erosion. The plan for tomorrow is to put the 3" rock in the ditch, finish widening the entrance, spread topsoil/seed/straw on the hillside, and install a silt fence.

 

[FF117]

Hutchman - If the soil is compacted well, the trucks won't move it around driving over it. You can also use pins supplied by the geo supplier. I've rolled it out myself and have used one or two helpers too...just depends on the job. Unless the wind is blowing pretty hard, it only takes a little material flung over the geo to hold it down. Just don't let the trucks drive over the geo roll. It smashes the cardboard inside and makes it a real pain to roll out. On some jobs it helps to place the geo and material from the entrance going backwards if the trucks don't have a way to get off of the driveway once they've dumped. In the photos I was averaging 15 semi loads a day and incoming/outgoing trucks could drive around in most places. It was a real hustle for the guys to get the geo rolled out and you can see how far they're dumping in front of me. In the first photo we have geo draped over the culverts since we placed rip rap on the banks to fend off erosion.
View attachment 440796 View attachment 440797

Nice looking road. How did you handle the fabric going around curves? Do you have to cut it, then overlap and re-direct the roll?

 

[farmer2009]

Web Soil Survey - Home

Find your place here and it'll tell you what is going on on top of the hill. Sounds like you have a soil type change. Also some info on how well it'll hold roads and structures.

I would think 3" rock would be hard to keep in place. I made some silt dams out of 12"+ rip rap one year they were carried away in next rain. I've had better luck with straw bales and drive a stick through them. Just leave a crack between the bales to let hard rains through. Or else it could try to cut a new ditch.

You've made good progress. Looks like a nice place.

 

[RDrancher]

Nice looking road. How did you handle the fabric going around curves? Do you have to cut it, then overlap and re-direct the roll?

Yes, use the cut and overlap method. On gentle curves you can just roll it out, but you can't drive on it with anything until it has a generous layer of gravel over the top or it starts straightening itself out and moving to the inside of the curve. R'4's on a tractor will move it and loaded trucks will move it a lot! Speaking from experience...that's not a fun scenario to deal with on a hot summer day. It also helps to remind the truck drivers to avoid turning the steering wheel when they're driving on the geo. They're more concerned with dumping a load and getting another, and sometimes they forget.

 

[RedNeckRacin]

Unfortunately I don't know anyone with a dump truck that will have time in the next couple of days. I rolled it with a loaded bucket on my tractor today with mixed results. It's been warm and windy here so the clay is like rocks and doesn't want to pack. I'm a little concerned about the soil on the top of the hill. It looks like clay and works up like clay, but after it's exposed and dried out it turns into dust and doesn't want to pack. It seems similar to top soil but is slightly different in color, but not as orange as the good clay. Hopefully I dug down deep enough. I'm down 8" in most places and I dug another 6" with a shovel with no change in soil type, so guess it is what it is at this point.

I stopped back in the rental store and they cut me a deal on the compactor. I'm going to rent the smooth drum this weekend to compact the dirt, return it for a couple days while the rock is hauled in, then rent it again to compact the gravel. Hopefully it does a good enough job with the dirt. I also ordered a load of 3" clean to put in the ditch in an effort to prevent erosion. The plan for tomorrow is to put the 3" rock in the ditch, finish widening the entrance, spread topsoil/seed/straw on the hillside, and install a silt fence.

OP, You cannot compact dust or sand. Its impossible. You have to have what is called optimum moisture content or you will get no where. Depending on the soil type it requires different amounts of water. You do not want mud, but there should be absolutely no dust. IIRC, the non scientific method is to add water until you can roll the clay into a ball and it will hold its shape, but if you try and flatten it out into a rod is breaks apart.

 

[FF117]

OP, You cannot compact dust or sand. Its impossible. You have to have what is called optimum moisture content or you will get no where. Depending on the soil type it requires different amounts of water. You do not want mud, but there should be absolutely no dust. IIRC, the non scientific method is to add water until you can roll the clay into a ball and it will hold its shape, but if you try and flatten it out into a rod is breaks apart.

Thanks for the info. I do remember reading about optimum moisture content when I was studying up for this project. I should've mentioned that we're supposed to get some rain tomorrow, so hopefully the moisture content will be right when I have the compactor this weekend. I actually thought about renting it today, but figured I'd wait until the weekend after it got some rain on it.

 

[FF117]

Got the hillside seeded, silt fence installed, and put 3" rock in the ditch. Wishing now that I would've waited to put the 3" down until after the driveway rock was down because it might be in the way when installing the fabric and water will probably just run around it and make a new ditch until the rest of the rock is down. I can't remember why I thought it was a good idea to put the rock in the ditch prior to the driveway rock. Oh well, I've made plenty of mistakes along the way.... at least this mistake hasn't cost me any money yet. Ran short on silt fence so I'll have to install some more this weekend. Hopefully it doesn't rain too hard in the mean time.

On a positive note, the trucking company brought the 3" today and he seemed really pleased with how everything looked. He asked who did the dirt work and he seemed surprised when I told him that I had done it with my tractor. He was also very knowledgeable about how to install geotextile and best practices when spreading rock onto it. Originally they were going to try to spread the rock while in reverse, but after looking at the situation he suggested that they use a trailer that dumps from the belly and allows them to spread more accurately. Unfortunately that means they will be driving on the fabric, but after talking with him a while I'm not too concerned about them doing something that would compromise the fabric. He also mentioned that they would be able to haul the rock cheaper using that truck:thumbsup:

 

[FF117]

Web Soil Survey - Home

Find your place here and it'll tell you what is going on on top of the hill. Sounds like you have a soil type change. Also some info on how well it'll hold roads and structures.

I would think 3" rock would be hard to keep in place. I made some silt dams out of 12"+ rip rap one year they were carried away in next rain. I've had better luck with straw bales and drive a stick through them. Just leave a crack between the bales to let hard rains through. Or else it could try to cut a new ditch.

You've made good progress. Looks like a nice place.

Got the soil figured out. I don't know how the heck they got all of those soil types mapped properly, but the map almost spot on with where the soil actually changed. The soil at the top of the hill is "Bunkum silty loam clay". It didn't say anything about compaction, but says it's somewhat poorly drained. I attached the spec sheet.

It's too late on the 3" rock. I already put it down. Wish I would've read your post prior to heading out today. Oh well, hopefully it turns out OK.

 

[vtsnowedin]

Ran into an issue today. Stopped into rental store to change reservation date on the sheep's for compactor and found out that they had a smooth drum reserved for me instead. I specifically asked for the pad foot when I made the reservation. Actually we had a lengthy discussion about it and they had to bring it in from another store. Not sure where the breakdown happened but now I'm stuck. I called around and the only sheep's foot available is a small trench compactor that is pretty light and not very wide. Should I go ahead and try the vibrating smooth drum or try to compact using my tractor? Just worried that the smooth drum would be a waste of time and money, but maybe it's better than nothing. Soil is clay and I need to make a decision soon. Any input is appreciated.

Go ahead with the smooth drum. The vibration makes up for a lot. If your in clay and it gets wet just wait until it dries out as churning it while it is plastic is a waste of time.

 

[Egon]

Go ahead with the smooth drum. The vibration makes up for a lot. If your in clay and it gets wet just wait until it dries out as churning it while it is plastic is a waste of time.

Drum roller, hill, wet clay = fun time.

 

[kevin37b]

Nice looking work . I would have got the fabric under the 3" but you still can . Just , aint that a handy word , pull the fence and push 3" up and roll fabric out . Get material on drive and pull 3" back in . Now is not the time to get burnt out , long way to go . A problem driveway will haunt you with all the traffic you are about to receive . Experience is something you get after you need it . Good luck !

 

[farmer2009]

Got the soil figured out. I don't know how the heck they got all of those soil types mapped properly, but the map almost spot on with where the soil actually changed. The soil at the top of the hill is "Bunkum silty loam clay". It didn't say anything about compaction, but says it's somewhat poorly drained. I attached the spec sheet. It's too late on the 3" rock. I already put it down. Wish I would've read your post prior to heading out today. Oh well, hopefully it turns out OK.

Once your in WSS and you draw out an Area of Interest. Then go to soil data explorer. Then to building sites. Then to unpaved roads. It won't tell you how well it will pack but will tell you how suitable it is for your uses. A 1.00 is bad. A .01 is best. According to the site my drive is on some of the worst soils. All areas are 1.00. But it still holds tractor trailers. Just takes a lot of rock. I usually add 100 ton a year and last year I had to add 200 ton. Mine doesn't have fabric under it to my knowledge. I didn't build it.

I don't think I'd abandon anything because of what the site says but it may help you make up your mind if you're on the fence about something.

 

[FF117]

Once your in WSS and you draw out an Area of Interest. Then go to soil data explorer. Then to building sites. Then to unpaved roads. It won't tell you how well it will pack but will tell you how suitable it is for your uses. A 1.00 is bad. A .01 is best. According to the site my drive is on some of the worst soils. All areas are 1.00. But it still holds tractor trailers. Just takes a lot of rock. I usually add 100 ton a year and last year I had to add 200 ton. Mine doesn't have fabric under it to my knowledge. I didn't build it.

I don't think I'd abandon anything because of what the site says but it may help you make up your mind if you're on the fence about something.

That site has a lot of information, thanks. I have a couple of 1.00 items listed under the "rating reasons". Both soil types are listed as "very limited". Glad that I'm using fabric.

Top of the hill:
Bunkum silty clay loam, 5 to 10 percent slopes, severely eroded
Very limited
Bunkum (90%)
Frost action (1.00)
Low strength (1.00)
Depth to saturated zone (0.75)
Shrink-swell (0.50)
Dusty (0.09)

Bottom of the hill:
Keswick clay loam, 10 to 18 percent slopes, severely eroded
Very limited
Keswick (90%)
Shrink-swell (1.00)
Low strength (1.00)
Slope (0.96)
Frost action (0.50)
Dusty (0.09)

 

[RDrancher]

Drum roller, hill, wet clay = fun time.

Yep. Right up there with loading one in a dump trailer.

 

[Egon]

Yep. Right up there with loading one in a dump trailer.

Hopefully the unloading goes slow rather than quick!

 

[FF117]

Compacted yesterday and today with the smooth drum roller. The vibration seemed to help quite a bit. The roller has a way of making imperfections in the dirt work show up. We had just enough rain on Friday to help the compaction, but it dried out pretty quick. Spent most of today extending the driveway the final 100'. I'm getting more and more concerned about the loamy soil. It's frustrating because it's 50" deep so there's no way to dig down deep enough to get rid of it. Guess I"ll just have to make sure water runs away and hope for the best. I compacted the heck out of it so hopefully that helps. Rock is coming Tuesday, no turning back now.

 

[RDrancher]

The loamy section will be fine with the geo.