New guys take on pros & cons of 45 HP range of CUT's

[IslandTractor]

I have a hard time thinking you could do much brush hog work with a 7-8 footer on a 30 hp tractor - maybe a light duty unit mowing fields but not a heavier duty unit (might be too much weight alone) or for real brush/trail work. I have always thought 5 hp/foot rule, and I thought that was PTO HP. We use a 6 foot, fairly heavy duty MX-6 on our 4320 (40 PTO hp, 48 total) and I wouldn't want bigger.

I think you misunderstood my abreviation. I was talking about a six foot mower and a 7 or 8 foot BH (backhoe). I agree even a 7ft finish mower would be too much for a 30hp machine. I'd imagine if we are comparing bush hogs then a 30hp machine would run a 5ft and a 45hp machine probably a 6ft bush hog.

 

[GPintheMitten]

Sure, no one has to justify his purchase decisions to anyone but himself and his wife and vice versa. But the suggestions on matching tractor to task and to land size are meant to help the OP, who has never owned a tractor before. He hasn't said so, but I'm guessing he has never owned acreage before either.

Time is valuable, sure. But time doing something you enjoy is ... well, enjoyable. You decide to buy out in the country with a few acres because you enjoy it. And even if it is a chore, most of us have to put a value on time vs dollars. For each person, that can come out different on a given purchase decision.

If the OP has plenty of money to buy the 45 hp tractor and will not be tractor rich and tight on money elsewhere in his budget fine. Sounds like it could be a lot of fun. But most of us don't have that financial situation. Hence, the suggestions that maybe he is overbuying for his needs.

He said very little about his plans on use and needs other than air-conditioning, hence wanting a cab and doesn't want the cab to inhibit the use of implements.

To the OP, if you think tight budgets will never be a topic of discussion in your household in the next 5 years, and have your retirement funding, college funding and other type of plans well in hand, go for it. But if you are like the 95% of us who need to be vigilant with money, just know that you can get very good use out of a 30 hp tractor. Just find one that has a cab A/C option that can accept the implements you need. Most of us can't justify a BH for personal use but if you need/want it, add that to your analysis.

Good luck to you.

 

[ovrszd]

Most of us can't justify a BH for personal use but if you need/want it, add that to your analysis.

Good point.

In the context of this discussion the BH attachment will be much, much harder to financially justify than the bigger tractor size. Give me a few days and I'll move every piece of surface dirt on the OP's small acreage with a BH. Then it'll sit in the corner.

In my neighborhood there are 3 backhoes for hire within three miles of me. They get $70 p/hr and can be hired when needed with only a day or two of planning ahead.

I'll stick my neck out and say that less than 10% of the BH attachments owned by members on this site will ever be worked enough hours to pay for themselves at $70 p/hr. I won't even get into the fact that those hours are saved on your tractor hr meter and fuel, repairs, misc expense bills. Defend that.

 

[Gittyup]

Good point.

In the context of this discussion the BH attachment will be much, much harder to financially justify than the bigger tractor size. Give me a few days and I'll move every piece of surface dirt on the OP's small acreage with a BH. Then it'll sit in the corner.

In my neighborhood there are 3 backhoes for hire within three miles of me. They get $70 p/hr and can be hired when needed with only a day or two of planning ahead.

I'll stick my neck out and say that less than 10% of the BH attachments owned by members on this site will ever be worked enough hours to pay for themselves at $70 p/hr. I won't even get into the fact that those hours are saved on your tractor hr meter and fuel, repairs, misc expense bills. Defend that.

Around here, the last I checked guys were demanding $100/hr with a minimum of 3 hours just to show up. They charge from the minute they arrive until the equipment is reloaded onto the trailer. So, if the average per use cost is like $400 and a backhoe costs about $6400 then it would take 16 jobs to break even. Yeah, most wouldn't get there. But, you might come close, especially if there are some bigger jobs thrown in. Then you factor in the convenience thing.....Anyway you cut it, it's hard to really get your payback, unless you also consider resale value. Then you are probably close. Mine is as much a toy as it is a tool. So, I would never part with it.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I did the same type of math you did when I was considering upgrading from my piece of junk King Kutter 5' Finish Mower to a 6' Caroni. I turned a 1:50 minute 2.5 acre job into a 1:20 minute job. My math was not even close because I did not consider the fewer number of times I would have to turn the tractor around. I thought I was only going to save maybe 10 minutes but ended up saving 30.

Time was not my concern as much as failure and maintenance of the King Kutter after only 3 seasons. I had spent nearly $800 on a $1000 mower in repairs. The Caroni is now 3 years old with nothing but a $.20 bolt replaced on the belt guard which was my fault because I went so long between checks with a wrench due to it being so trouble free.

Chris

 

[ovrszd]

Mine is as much a toy as it is a tool. So, I would never part with it.

That was my point right there, as is the case with 90% of owners here. Nothing wrong with that, just a fact.

 

[ovrszd]

which was my fault because I went so long between checks with a wrench due to it being so trouble free.

Chris

Yep, I always have said I give unwaivering attention to my junk pieces of equipment that I should sell and ignore the ones that serve me well. Human nature I guess.

 

[Builder]

Paralysis by over analysis. Just buy the tractor you want within reason and you'll be OK. Nobody makes the perfect decision, but I have bought my share of tools that were too small and had to go bigger. Still kicking myself for not buying a DRW chassis & cab...... Still wish I had bought the bigger Kubota M5700 instead of my MT285B.

From now on, I buy a little bigger than I think I need and I end up better off. Never liked beating small equipment to death.

 

[WilliamBos]

Paralysis by over analysis. Just buy the tractor you want within reason and you'll be OK. Nobody makes the perfect decision, but I have bought my share of tools that were too small and had to go bigger. Still kicking myself for not buying a DRW chassis & cab.....

From now on, I buy a little bigger than I think I need and I end up better off. Never liked beating small equipment to death.

I agree. When we bought our MF 1523, not too long after, we were regretting not going bigger. It is a nice tractor, but a little too light in some cases. Next one will be bigger, not too much bigger, but we want all cast iron next time, something like our trusty Ol' 35, but still somewhat of a compact.

 

[CowwFace]

Lt,

I got my Kioti DK40SE HST about 4 months ago.. and I would lay in bed sleepless going back and forth between HST vs shuttle shift.. I wanted the HST but shuttle shift was less expensive. I literally lost a few nights sleep over it.

I finally said screw it.. I want the HST I'm getting HST! and I did. Now that I've had to use the machine for snow removal (twice) the HST makes it EASIER than the ATV for snow pushing.. best decision I ever made was to pamper myself with my tractor.

My vote is for YOU to buy a Kioti DK45SE HST with 401 loader and you will have to wipe the smile off of your face with terpentine! You can send me a thank you card for helping in the decision.

Carry on,
Phill

 

[Ken45101]

I'll stick my neck out and say that less than 10% of the BH attachments owned by members on this site will ever be worked enough hours to pay for themselves at $70 p/hr. I won't even get into the fact that those hours are saved on your tractor hr meter and fuel, repairs, misc expense bills. Defend that.

You are definitely right that on a strict dollars angle vs. contracting it out, a lot of this stuff cannot be justified. Either pay someone else to do it, or don't even bother doing it!

However, I've put 400 hours on my little B21 TLB. Sometimes it's been useful digging out mud slides alongside the driveway when it might have been a while to get a contractor in to do it, and other times I've just had fun digging out hillside trails or just quickly burying a horse.

But the B21 is getting little seat time these days, I now have a Kubota mini excavator (I've put 96 hours on it since May) and a skid steer (I've put 60 hours on it since August). Yes, it would have been cheaper to get someone in with bigger equipment, but I certainly enjoy the seat time! And that's what a lot of us are here for.

Actually, lately I've been out cleaning out the trails that a contractor bulldozed several years ago (as well as adding additional trails). BTW, it took about 6 months to get the contractor here originally since he didn't want to operate a dozer on muddy hillsides.

Although I have a pretty wide range of equipment here, "bigger" doesn't always equal "better" for a particular task. Until I get all the trails widened out, I cannot begin to take the M5040 out on many of the trails whereas the B2710 would fit on them if I had R1's and a 4' cutter.

Also one other data point: smaller implements are a lot easier to manhandle and hook up than the bigger ones. You do NOT move around a 6' medium duty cutter to get it aligned for hooking up. Yes, you might save a half hour mowing with a bigger mower, but it might take a half hour of time to hitch/unhitch.

But to each his own. It's just that those of us here with experience don't see the need for 45 hp on a few acres. If saving time is the ultimate issue, get a ZT mower, and a backhoe for the other tasks.

Ken

 

[Builder]

Also one other data point: smaller implements are a lot easier to manhandle and hook up than the bigger ones. You do NOT move around a 6' medium duty cutter to get it aligned for hooking up. Yes, you might save a half hour mowing with a bigger mower, but it might take a half hour of time to hitch/unhitch.

But to each his own. It's just that those of us here with experience don't see the need for 45 hp on a few acres. If saving time is the ultimate issue, get a ZT mower, and a backhoe for the other tasks.

Ken

Ken, I have 25 years of equipment operating experience as a career and I respectfully do not agree. I move a 7' mower around, so it can be done. Once it's hooked up, it will cut grass like nobody's business. You just have to know how to park it and have enough experience with it to know how to make it easy.

Oh yeah, I forgot, experience doesn't mean anything when knowing how to operate equipment (you either hit the gas line or you don't, dig the hole, or you don't.......IIRC) . LOL

I do agree with to each his own. If you want to get done faster and have a big enough machine for any forseeable task, then buy big. If you want to save money, garage is small and you have more spare time on your hands, go small.

I've got a lot of seat time compared to most and I can tell you small machines are frustrating and downright unsafe if pushed too hard compared to bigger, more stable machines.

 

[Ken45101]

Ken, I have 25 years of equipment operating experience as a career and I respectfully do not agree. I move a 7' mower around, so it can be done.

If you can move 860 pounds around by yourself, you are more man than I am! That's the weight of my SIX foot medium duty Woods rotary cutter. With a single tail wheel, it meets the definition of the proverbial "immovable mass" and I am not the "irresistible force".

I've only had it for ten years but if I don't get lucky, hooking it up can be a time consuming chore.

Would I give up the 6' bush hog and 50 hp tractor? No, but it was bought when I had 15 acres to maintain and now with 35 acres I've gone on to bigger mowers.

Ken

 

[Lt CHEG]

Sure, no one has to justify his purchase decisions to anyone but himself and his wife and vice versa. But the suggestions on matching tractor to task and to land size are meant to help the OP, who has never owned a tractor before. He hasn't said so, but I'm guessing he has never owned acreage before either.

Time is valuable, sure. But time doing something you enjoy is ... well, enjoyable. You decide to buy out in the country with a few acres because you enjoy it. And even if it is a chore, most of us have to put a value on time vs dollars. For each person, that can come out different on a given purchase decision.

If the OP has plenty of money to buy the 45 hp tractor and will not be tractor rich and tight on money elsewhere in his budget fine. Sounds like it could be a lot of fun. But most of us don't have that financial situation. Hence, the suggestions that maybe he is overbuying for his needs.

He said very little about his plans on use and needs other than air-conditioning, hence wanting a cab and doesn't want the cab to inhibit the use of implements.

To the OP, if you think tight budgets will never be a topic of discussion in your household in the next 5 years, and have your retirement funding, college funding and other type of plans well in hand, go for it. But if you are like the 95% of us who need to be vigilant with money, just know that you can get very good use out of a 30 hp tractor. Just find one that has a cab A/C option that can accept the implements you need. Most of us can't justify a BH for personal use but if you need/want it, add that to your analysis.

Good luck to you.

You're completely right in that this is the first time I've ever owned acreage as well as the first tractor I'm planning on owning. The biggest reason that I wanted acreage is for privacy, not so much because I really enjoy working the land. I grew up in a city and currently live in a city. I work in Law Enforcement. Between my job and just living in a city I'm just tired of people and don't want anyone too close when I'm at home. So that's the reason why I bought acreage. I can't stand the sight of an overgrown field and it would take too long for 300 or 400 trees to grow in so as to look like a forest and not need regular mowing, so I will have to mow the land. I will enjoy helping my wife out with a garden as I think it will be some nice together time. I also like being able to handle any and all snow removal myself and not be dependent on anyone else. That's pretty much the extent of what I WANT to do. So that's the reason why I want something that will allow me to mow my field fast and make me feel like I'm just going out for a ride in my air conditioned car.

I very much appreciate the help that everyone here has given me. Ultimately I have made my decision. I will buy whatever tractor is the best deal from whatever dealer most wants to sell me the tractor. Since it is clear that any one of the Kubota Grand L series or B3030 tractors, NH/CaseIH Cab tractors as well as MF 1600 series cab tractors will suit my needs I'm just going to buy whatever one is the best deal and be happy. I've got things going with several dealers and I'll be sure to post an update when I sign on the bottom line. Again I very much appreciate the thoughtful and helpful comments posted by the members here. I don't take any offense to members wanting to save me a few bucks by recommending a tractor that may be smaller than I inquired about but is still completely capable of handling my needs. I'm not rich by any measure but I'm in a situation where $100 a month in any direction for a tractor payment will not break me, especially at 0% interest. So I'm sure that no matter what I end up with, I'll be happy.

 

[Builder]

Ultimately I have made my decision. I will buy whatever tractor is the best deal from whatever dealer most wants to sell me the tractor. Since it is clear that any one of the Kubota Grand L series or B3030 tractors, NH/CaseIH Cab tractors as well as MF 1600 series cab tractors will suit my needs I'm just going to buy whatever one is the best deal and be happy.

That is smart. Avoid brand loyalty. Buy what you like the best at the time you buy. What you like best might be defined by the least expensive, the best looking, the one with the best seat, whatever. Back in my brand loyal days, I bought only 1 brand of truck and lived with the disappointments. I learned to buy the best truck at the time you're buying to maximize satisfaction.

Good luck and let us know what you decided to buy.

 

[IslandTractor]

As snow removal is likely to be a major recurrent task, get a cab with whatever HP tractor you buy.

 

[WilliamBos]

As snow removal is likely to be a major recurrent task, get a cab with whatever HP tractor you buy.

I agree. Wish we had of got a cab. Oh well, maybe next time.

 

[Charlesaf3]

I second Island Tractor. I'd definitely get a cab if I were you.

And Builder/mtn view have a good point. I bought a b3030 originally. It was too small. I thought of upgrading to an L, but decided not to make the same mistake twice and bought the m59. Very happy with it. And I use it on 2 acres max - though I have 7.5, the rest is woods.

If it were flat land and all field, the 3030 would be perfect. And for 2 acres a bx would do the trick if it were all landscaped. But the 3030 can't knock down and regrade a 1/4 of forest like the m59 can.

Usually on here acreage is used as a rough proxy for job. But job is actually more important, as was said above.

 

[Lt CHEG]

Well, the B3030 is out. The closest dealer did not have one in stock with a cab, but they had an open platform unit. It just felt too cramped for me. I'm 6'2" tall and have a broad/athletic build. My knees really start to rebel when I sit in any sort of cramped position for any length of time and that's the feeling I got sitting on the B3030. Since the biggest reason why I am only looking at cab tractors is for comfort there's no sense in compromising that much comfort at this point. So it looks like if I go Kubota, it will be a Grand L tractor.

 

[CowwFace]

As snow removal is likely to be a major recurrent task, get a cab with whatever HP tractor you buy.

Hey IslandT,

No such thing as bad weather.. just bad gear. <grin>

Now if a grasshopper gets on my bare skin... I'd have a cab in a heartbeat!

Phill