grm61
Platinum Member
I'm sure they probably throw a wet towel on your back to wipe yourself off as well :laughing:
Tractor News New Kubota M7 Series
- Thread starter jayman30
- Start date
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I'm sure they probably throw a wet towel on your back to wipe yourself off as well :laughing:
MHarryE
Elite Member
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2009
- Messages
- 2,970
- Location
- Northeastern Minnesota
- Tractor
- Kubota M7-171, M5-111, SVL75-2, RTV900XT & GR2120; CaseIH 1680 combine
FPT is different in that they don't use cooled EGR while AGCO does use cooled EGR in addition to SCR. Their patented and proprietary claims are relevant to their particular design and do not limit anyone else from developing their own complete SCR system if they so chose. FPT does use DEF at a higher rate than others so they can have higher combustion chamber temperatures to reduce soot and then hit it with more urea in its SCR to convert to H2O and N.
I look more for the end result and for that time will tell. Case IH management has changed since I worked for them and I hope it is for the better. I struggled with having to tell my engineering group that the orders from the executives was in their performance plan we had to have a cost reduction goal for each person. Remember that quality cannot be compromised but whether you have a job next year depends on whether or not you attain your cost reduction goal. One bright idea was to modify the pistons on the 8.3 liter engine when switching from Navistar to the Case-Cummins joint venture. At approximately 1,000 hours the top of the piston started to erode, loss of power, extreme oil consumption, and a $11,000,000 program to replace all the sleeves and pistons on that year's production. I had gone with them out of pure greed and was elated to leave. Decisions like that led to Case IH merging to become CNH with Fiat now in charge and I hope an entire new upper management team.
Here is a link to some info on Stage 5. Not sure if everyone else can read it because the magazine requires a subscription although I think they allow you to view a few pages as a sample.
http://www.dpintl-digital.com/dpintl/september_2014/m3/Page.action?lm=1409150650000&pg=23
This article lists the proposed standard and tentative implementation dates. The concern now is that particle count has become the concern that wasn't recognized when the last regulations were issued in 2004. Now that they are able to test the results they find particle size matters and engines are not meeting current standards after an unexpectedly low number of hours.
But now I am retired and only need to worry about the changes as an end user although I still do keep in touch with my old group to see how the Tier 4 engines, in which I retired during the middle of development, have gone. Fortunately much better than Tier 3. I can't fault FPT's decision for full SCR. That was my vote when all of our product groups got together but I lost.
As far as patents - good advertising lingo. I actually have a patent on a tarp strap. When I was a young engineer I encountered a problem in the field and over a few beers discussed solutions after dinner with my field mechanic. The next morning we built what I had sketched on a napkin and it worked - except in some conditions it would hang up. The light bulb lit - I grabbed a tarp strap from a farmer's truck and it worked. Shen I hot back to the plant the word got around and our patent attorney asked me to take pictures of, and describe what I did. Sure enough when the patent was issued one of the items claimed was an "elasticly elongatable tensile member" with the clear illustration of a tarp strap. I cannot believe the patent examiner let that one through. Cat had rubber tracks tied up in dozens of patents yet Deere blatantly copied the design and won when Cat sued. Cat engineers were elated when Deere copied the design they included one quirk Cat had designed in that caused material to build up to the point where friction caused fires. Deere had to retrofit all the tractors produced just like Cat did when they earlier found the problem.
I look more for the end result and for that time will tell. Case IH management has changed since I worked for them and I hope it is for the better. I struggled with having to tell my engineering group that the orders from the executives was in their performance plan we had to have a cost reduction goal for each person. Remember that quality cannot be compromised but whether you have a job next year depends on whether or not you attain your cost reduction goal. One bright idea was to modify the pistons on the 8.3 liter engine when switching from Navistar to the Case-Cummins joint venture. At approximately 1,000 hours the top of the piston started to erode, loss of power, extreme oil consumption, and a $11,000,000 program to replace all the sleeves and pistons on that year's production. I had gone with them out of pure greed and was elated to leave. Decisions like that led to Case IH merging to become CNH with Fiat now in charge and I hope an entire new upper management team.
Here is a link to some info on Stage 5. Not sure if everyone else can read it because the magazine requires a subscription although I think they allow you to view a few pages as a sample.
http://www.dpintl-digital.com/dpintl/september_2014/m3/Page.action?lm=1409150650000&pg=23
This article lists the proposed standard and tentative implementation dates. The concern now is that particle count has become the concern that wasn't recognized when the last regulations were issued in 2004. Now that they are able to test the results they find particle size matters and engines are not meeting current standards after an unexpectedly low number of hours.
But now I am retired and only need to worry about the changes as an end user although I still do keep in touch with my old group to see how the Tier 4 engines, in which I retired during the middle of development, have gone. Fortunately much better than Tier 3. I can't fault FPT's decision for full SCR. That was my vote when all of our product groups got together but I lost.
As far as patents - good advertising lingo. I actually have a patent on a tarp strap. When I was a young engineer I encountered a problem in the field and over a few beers discussed solutions after dinner with my field mechanic. The next morning we built what I had sketched on a napkin and it worked - except in some conditions it would hang up. The light bulb lit - I grabbed a tarp strap from a farmer's truck and it worked. Shen I hot back to the plant the word got around and our patent attorney asked me to take pictures of, and describe what I did. Sure enough when the patent was issued one of the items claimed was an "elasticly elongatable tensile member" with the clear illustration of a tarp strap. I cannot believe the patent examiner let that one through. Cat had rubber tracks tied up in dozens of patents yet Deere blatantly copied the design and won when Cat sued. Cat engineers were elated when Deere copied the design they included one quirk Cat had designed in that caused material to build up to the point where friction caused fires. Deere had to retrofit all the tractors produced just like Cat did when they earlier found the problem.
MessickFarmEqu
Super Member
We honestly thought the same thing, its the same engine that's in the M135 currently. The power density is actually lower than many other engines in that class. Your going to start seeing 4-cyl becoming the norm from many other companies. As always, its emissions and efficiency driven. Its already the norm in Europe.
The only gotcha I picked up on with the engine was the power boost. The 131/151 each have 20 Hp of boost, the 171 only has 5. IMO.. I'd be buying a 151 for that reason, kinda devalues the 171.
ShowroomShine
Gold Member
Our new Maxxum line (115-150hp) is the same way. It went from the 4.5L 4cyl in the 115 and 6.7L 6cyl in the others to now all 4.5L 4cyl.
ShowroomShine
Gold Member
Great article, but good lord if we end up with Tier 5 I think all of us dealers will just give up. Its hard enough to educate the customer on the new technology, but then add in a whole nother Tier, crap on it.
Grateful11
Veteran Member
Why did CaseIH get away from the 5.9L 6cyl. Cummins? The Maxxum here has one and it's been a great engine. I believe Dodge trucks still run them.
rScotty
Super Member
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2001
- Messages
- 9,565
- Location
- Rural mountains - Colorado
- Tractor
- Kubota M59, JD530, JD310SG. Restoring Yanmar YM165D
Perhaps the management pendulum will swing. There's always been an interesting debate as to which goal made for more solid long term profit for a company....developing a reputation for long term reliability or one for cutting costs. In the short haul it's hard to do both, though wouldn't surprise me if the difference in profit was pretty much the same when either system works like it should.
Engineers are lucky because it's entirely their own decision as to which design philosopy they chose to do. Jobs are plentiful and most journeymen engineers can design in either mode.
rScotty
Grateful11
Veteran Member
Back to the M7. While my wife and I were helping our son work out a deal on a new MX5100, hard to find BTW, we asked nearly every dealer about the M7. A couple told us the Rocky Mount, NC dealer actually turned Kubota down as Kubota wanted them to be one of the first to receive one. A large dealer in Lexington, NC, that usually keeps several of Kubota's largest available now tractors, wanted one really bad but was told no by Kubota. I guess they are trying to place the first ones in strategic areas with the largest areas of crop land. I can't my son ever buying one unless he can pick up more acreage but we'd still like to see you ;-)
ShowroomShine
Gold Member
Id like to know the same answer. More than likely due to emissions and production. When the pickups went to the 6.7L from the 5.9L we made that change around the same time.
wmonroe
Elite Member
Does the 171 have a larger turbo that pushes more volume of air?
