jinman
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New roof on a cedar home... Some questions?
- Thread starter tomrscott
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jinman
Rest in Peace
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2001
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- 20,387
- Location
- Texas - Wise County - Sunset
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- NHTC45D, NH LB75B, Ford Jubilee
To fill that void, 4'x8' sections of foam insulation were just layed in with no structure whatsoever. After the foam was layed in the entire area was covered with OSB and secured down with 5" screws through the foam and into the 2x6 tongue and groove. Finally, this was covered by another layer of felt and then the metal roof was installed. You can see how it looks just before the metal was installed.
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jinman
Rest in Peace
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I had my choice of R-panel, U-panel, CF (concealed fastener), and AP Panels. Because I wanted the most strength, I chose U-panels. Here is a picture where you can see the roof after the metal and gutters were installed.
I recommend you check with your insurance agent before doing your metal roof. My insurance company required a certification of 26 ga. and the source of the metal used. As a result, my insurance is probably reduced by 25%, but that may vary in your area. You just want to make sure you know all the requirements before you do your roof. You don't want to find out after it's finished that you missed something and your insurance won't give you credit for your roof.
The only sealing done on my insulation was tape on the joints between the 4x8 foam sections. The weather is pretty mild here in Texas and my winter electric bills are less than $150 per month. The house stays nice and warm, but even at that, there are improvements that could be made.
...and yes, I do continue to find places that wasps and lady bugs can find and get into my house from time to time. In a couple more years, I figure I will have used another bushel of silicone seal and have all the bug intrusions stopped. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I recommend you check with your insurance agent before doing your metal roof. My insurance company required a certification of 26 ga. and the source of the metal used. As a result, my insurance is probably reduced by 25%, but that may vary in your area. You just want to make sure you know all the requirements before you do your roof. You don't want to find out after it's finished that you missed something and your insurance won't give you credit for your roof.
The only sealing done on my insulation was tape on the joints between the 4x8 foam sections. The weather is pretty mild here in Texas and my winter electric bills are less than $150 per month. The house stays nice and warm, but even at that, there are improvements that could be made.
...and yes, I do continue to find places that wasps and lady bugs can find and get into my house from time to time. In a couple more years, I figure I will have used another bushel of silicone seal and have all the bug intrusions stopped. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
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jinman
Rest in Peace
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2001
- Messages
- 20,387
- Location
- Texas - Wise County - Sunset
- Tractor
- NHTC45D, NH LB75B, Ford Jubilee
Okay, time for me to show my ignorance again, what is a SIPS? Some sort of modular pre-fab roof section with frame work and sheathing all in one? Will they build them custom to any size? What about diagonals and slant edges?
Sounds interesting. I will have to do some Google searches... /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
Sounds interesting. I will have to do some Google searches... /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
Eddie,
You are right, we are not communicating. It must be my fault. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
But I think I see a major area of confusion that I can clear up:
1) There is _NO_ insulation frame made from 2x6s on edge on my roof today! None! I am planning on building one.
2) The roof today is as follows:
a) 2x6 T&G cedar ceiling boards on face
b) roof felt
c) 1x4 cross boards (perlins?) on face spaced wide, with some 1x styrofoam poked into the spaces very loosely
d) Shingles nailed to the 1x4s
That's it!
That's all the roof it has now!
It may not make any sense, but that's what's here. You have to remember this is a 27 year old roof in a temperate climate where hydro-electricity has been almost as cheap as a wood stove. The solid wood walls have a very high R value, and the windows are all double glazed, and the downstairs is built three feet below grade with foot thick concrete walls, but the roof has to be losing a lot of heat in winter.
The 2x6 on-edge insulation frame I am talking about building is all new. There is no space anywhere in the roof today thicker than a 1x4 on face.
Does that help clarify things a bit?
/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
You are right, we are not communicating. It must be my fault. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
But I think I see a major area of confusion that I can clear up:
1) There is _NO_ insulation frame made from 2x6s on edge on my roof today! None! I am planning on building one.
2) The roof today is as follows:
a) 2x6 T&G cedar ceiling boards on face
b) roof felt
c) 1x4 cross boards (perlins?) on face spaced wide, with some 1x styrofoam poked into the spaces very loosely
d) Shingles nailed to the 1x4s
That's it!
That's all the roof it has now!
It may not make any sense, but that's what's here. You have to remember this is a 27 year old roof in a temperate climate where hydro-electricity has been almost as cheap as a wood stove. The solid wood walls have a very high R value, and the windows are all double glazed, and the downstairs is built three feet below grade with foot thick concrete walls, but the roof has to be losing a lot of heat in winter.
The 2x6 on-edge insulation frame I am talking about building is all new. There is no space anywhere in the roof today thicker than a 1x4 on face.
Does that help clarify things a bit?
/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
Jinman,
Thanks for these posts! Yeah what you have is very similar to what I have in mind. I am surprised that the foam insulation blocks are stiff enough that you can put your roofing right on top of it with no other support, using 5" screws. I hadn't even considered that. If that's the case, it greatly reduces the complexity of the insulation frame. What kind of screw is it that you use? Is there something like a deck screw that long that will screw in without a pilot hole? The other nice thing about that construction is that you get fewer gaps to worry about, one insulation block runs right up against another in a tight fill.
Very nice. I need to research local sources of materials, now that I know some things to look for.
I've attached a single picture of my interior celing here where one of the lower beams joins two different roof pitches. With some daylight I can take some pictures of the roof edges and wall construction too.
Again, thanks very much for the postings. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
Thanks for these posts! Yeah what you have is very similar to what I have in mind. I am surprised that the foam insulation blocks are stiff enough that you can put your roofing right on top of it with no other support, using 5" screws. I hadn't even considered that. If that's the case, it greatly reduces the complexity of the insulation frame. What kind of screw is it that you use? Is there something like a deck screw that long that will screw in without a pilot hole? The other nice thing about that construction is that you get fewer gaps to worry about, one insulation block runs right up against another in a tight fill.
Very nice. I need to research local sources of materials, now that I know some things to look for.
I've attached a single picture of my interior celing here where one of the lower beams joins two different roof pitches. With some daylight I can take some pictures of the roof edges and wall construction too.
Again, thanks very much for the postings. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
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EddieWalker
Epic Contributor
Tom,
I see now what I was missing, and now it all makes sense.
You have several options on the design. I'm a big fan of keeping things simple, inexpensive and perminant.
After you strip off your shingls and 1X4, I'd install 2X6 rafters in place, one at a time. Use standard pine, nothing special. The facia should be something that will resist rot. You mentioned cedar or PT earlier. You can also use hardiboard, wich would be the very best in my opinion. There is no need or reason to block the rafters.
Spacing is going to be based on what you decide to use for insulation. Jim showed you some pictures of solid foam that would probably be what your looking for. I'd use fiberglass and put the rafters 24" OC.
After the insulation is in, you install your perlins. 1X4's work fine and can be spacee 48" OC.
This is were Chris suggests using the felt paper. You don't have a smooth surface for it over the perlins, so I'm not sure how well it will work. If you really want to use felt, then to do it right, you'd need sheathing. Installing this will probably be the hardest part of the job. Getting those sheets up there is a royal pain, it's extremely expensive and it doesn't do anything for a metal roof. It's your call.
If you do install sheathing, you might want to install shingles again. There are allot of different styles in composit ones that are very attractive. Shop around and do some searches online. It's a good idea to compare all your options.
If your still going to install a metal roof. I'd skip the felt and install the metal directly onto the perlins.
What is your timeframe? I'm just starting the dirtwork on a workshop I'll be starting on in a few months. I'll be posting pictures on it, which should clarify the basics of a metal roof.
Eddie
I see now what I was missing, and now it all makes sense.
You have several options on the design. I'm a big fan of keeping things simple, inexpensive and perminant.
After you strip off your shingls and 1X4, I'd install 2X6 rafters in place, one at a time. Use standard pine, nothing special. The facia should be something that will resist rot. You mentioned cedar or PT earlier. You can also use hardiboard, wich would be the very best in my opinion. There is no need or reason to block the rafters.
Spacing is going to be based on what you decide to use for insulation. Jim showed you some pictures of solid foam that would probably be what your looking for. I'd use fiberglass and put the rafters 24" OC.
After the insulation is in, you install your perlins. 1X4's work fine and can be spacee 48" OC.
This is were Chris suggests using the felt paper. You don't have a smooth surface for it over the perlins, so I'm not sure how well it will work. If you really want to use felt, then to do it right, you'd need sheathing. Installing this will probably be the hardest part of the job. Getting those sheets up there is a royal pain, it's extremely expensive and it doesn't do anything for a metal roof. It's your call.
If you do install sheathing, you might want to install shingles again. There are allot of different styles in composit ones that are very attractive. Shop around and do some searches online. It's a good idea to compare all your options.
If your still going to install a metal roof. I'd skip the felt and install the metal directly onto the perlins.
What is your timeframe? I'm just starting the dirtwork on a workshop I'll be starting on in a few months. I'll be posting pictures on it, which should clarify the basics of a metal roof.
Eddie