New rules for ethanol in gasoline

[mrmikey]

understand. curious your location? regards

If that question was directed at me , Nova Scotia, 'bout 40K outside Halifax.

 

[mo1]

88 octane 15% alcohol gasoline with the blue hose and blue nozzle has been around all year long for many years here in Missouri. Kum & Go and Signal in particular carry it in many of their locations. In fact, I can't remember seeing any grade/type of fuel only being around on a seasonal basis here, if a station has a specific type of fuel, they sell it year-round.

 

[RustyA]

Here in Wisconsin many stations offer E10 87 octane, E15 88 octane and ethanol free 91 octane for off road and collector car use only. I run E15 in my flex fuel Explorer and it adds about 1 mpg better fuel economy. In our F-150 we notice no difference in mpg. If you have a flex fuel and run E85 the purpose of varying every 4th tank or so is to recalibrate the flex fuel sensor. E15 is usually 5-10 cents less than E10, 91 octane non ethanol can be up to $1.00 more.

 

[alexpops]

you can still add water, mix it up and separate out the ethanol which combines with the water, but it drops the energy content of the gas. Several youtubers show the process, but it seems to take a while & you have fuel being transferred from one container to another. I'd want a water blocking filter before putting in any machinery, & probably needs a booster of some sort to get the energy & octane levels up to the machine's specs.

 

[mo1]

you can still add water, mix it up and separate out the ethanol which combines with the water, but it drops the energy content of the gas. Several youtubers show the process, but it seems to take a while & you have fuel being transferred from one container to another. I'd want a water blocking filter before putting in any machinery, & probably needs a booster of some sort to get the energy & octane levels up to the machine's specs.

The funny thing is that the "booster" you would be adding to your fuel is likely just very expensive ethanol in a bottle. Ethanol has a very high octane rating, particularly when blended in small quantities to gasoline. It also is an oxygenate so you will have lower tested emissions, and unlike organometallics, it won't destroy your catalytic converter or foul your oxygen sensor. Those are why pretty much all of those little bottles of "gas booster" at the auto parts store are basically ethanol plus just enough methanol or gasoline or something else to let them avoid having to pay the alcoholic beverage tax and requiring a liquor license to sell.

 

[Torvy]

Here in Wisconsin many stations offer E10 87 octane, E15 88 octane and ethanol free 91 octane for off road and collector car use only. I run E15 in my flex fuel Explorer and it adds about 1 mpg better fuel economy. In our F-150 we notice no difference in mpg. If you have a flex fuel and run E85 the purpose of varying every 4th tank or so is to recalibrate the flex fuel sensor. E15 is usually 5-10 cents less than E10, 91 octane non ethanol can be up to $1.00 more.

One of the few things we disliked when we lived in Wisconsin was the gas laws. Prices are artificially high and change (sometimes dramatically) when they shift from one season to another.

 

[RustyA]

Seasonal blend gas is used in cold climates for easier cold starting in winter. Lowers mpg about 10% and you can tell April 1st when summer blend hits pumps from your fuel economy.

 

[drssg]

OK Folks. 15% ethanol is NOT E85!

They are two different product.

E15 is 15% ethanol and 85% gasoline.

E85 is 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline.

Also, the OP's statement is misleading.

No one is forcing people in those states to use E15. It allows them to sell E15 all year VS just seasonally.

EPA proposes allowing year-round sale of cheaper, higher-ethanol gas blends in Wisconsin and seven other states

A fuel blend with larger amounts of ethanol, known as E15 or Unleaded 88 could become avialable year-round under a proposed EPA rule.

www.jsonline.com

Well how about that. I learned something today!

I somehow assumed that E85 was 85% gasoline and 15% ethanol. I didn't realize vehicles could run on 85% ethanol.

I don't recall seeing E15 offered locally, but I could have missed it.

 

[dirttoys]

The claimed (please don't shoot the messenger here) reasons for ethanol was energy independence from being entirely reliant on oil and ethanol being a renewal resource.

Ethanol is a great cautionary tale. Might have been a genuine benevolent idea to stretch out the time we have oil available, and not a way for a politician to get some personal gain, or pay off some votes.........

But, hindsight I (personally) don't think we can look back and say it worked out to the betterment of the world. That's ok, try, fail, try harder.

Unfortunately we get to see how the government deals with bad ideas. Nobody owns them or is accountable. Way to few (if any) crappy policies get rolled back. Most of the time the poor dorks just double down and keep moving forward.............

Best,

ed

 

[dirttoys]

so going back to OP, does availability of ethanol free fuel depend on demographic demand in each locale, or is it a matter of state/local regulation, or lobbyists?

Not op, but in my small town, we have one station that supplies booze free fuel, it is a buck a gallon higher than e10, and if they decided not to offer it, there is no rule, reg, or law that would make someone else step in and do it. I would be surprised if it is available in 2 years, and shocked if it is available in 5.

Best,

ed

 

[5030]

so going back to OP, does availability of ethanol free fuel depend on demographic demand in each locale, or is it a matter of state/local regulation, or lobbyists?

Honestly, not a clue.

 

[5030]

Syn Fuel ?? what is syn fuel ?

Using Tru-Fuel but Echo and Stihl also sell their own branded syn fuels. They wouldn't be economical for a tree company but work well for an occasional user like me. Not cheap however. I pay about 40 bucks a gallon at Lowes for the stuff but unlike e-gas, the life in a 2 stroke gas tank is at least 5 years and all my 2 stroke engines run better on it. I have a balky Stihl that is over 40 years old (bought new) that refuses to idle on pump gas, idles just fine on syn fuel.

 

[Torvy]

I'm not 100% sure, but I think Oklahoma must have a law that requires ethanol free to be sold. Our oldest went to OU, so we took more than a few trips there. Seems they had ethanol free and it was often same or less than blended.

 

[5030]

The majority of gasoline sold in the US is E10. It has never been made at refineries, and has always been blended at the rack, as they say. It's been that way since the 80s. So this is nothing new.

Refinery Mixology: What's in Your Gasoline? - OPIS, A Dow Jones Company

Finished gasoline isn't a common output from U.S. refiners. Instead, they produce gasoline blendstocks to which ethanol is added at the rack. Learn more.

blog.opisnet.com

Never said it was did I? All I am referring to is the particular states will be E15 and what E15 does to small engines. Indiana nor Michigan is included so relax.

Like I stated, you cannot transmit E gas via pipeline because it's corrosive and it's corrosive to auto and small engine fuel systems not specifically built to handle it.

E10 will work in small engines so long as it don't sit for an extended time. Having said that I use E10 in my ZTR's that sit all winter but I use Marine Stabil in every fill of my gas cans as well. Not a plug for it but it prevents phase separation.

E15 is a different animal entirely.

 

[IXLR8]

When I lived in Maine, the only ethanol free fuel I could find was at the airports, and most would not sell to you. Where I am in VA, there are several stations that sell E0.

 

[5030]

IIRC, every bushel of corn processed for ethanol produces about 3 gallons of ethanol and about 20 lbs of animal feed. And, from what I understand, the feed produced is much richer than the corn before the processing, so it displaces about 120%.

IOW, 100lbs of ethanol-processed feed takes the place of 120lbs of corn. Not sure about all that.

I'm not crazy about using it for ethanol but I don't think it's as bad as some think. Technology is good in the right hands.

In the wrong hands -- Well, those people screw up everything they touch anyway, so.................

It is what it is and when we had cattle (we don't anymore) I used to get DDG from the now defunct alcohol distiller. It was cheap as a by product of the distillation process and a value added product for them. DDG (Dried Distiller Grain is what is left over from the making of corn alcohol. Not really dry as in sand. Kind of damp dry and cattle love it, but then cattle love silage too.

 

[notaz3]

How many people know the quantity of Diesel to produce a gallon of ethanol?
Corn doesn't just grow wild and get harvested by hand.

 

[5030]

To my reading, this is not forcing anyone to buy E85 gas. It would be allowing its sale in the summer months, as well as winter.

When I have seen E85 offered for sale in Ohio, it is labeled as a cheaper alternative. The same station offers "normal" gas for a higher price, and it can have up to 10% ethanol.

Here as well but you cannot run it in a non Flex Fuel vehicle or a small engine. The fuel systems aren't compatible with it.

 

[5030]

How many people know the quantity of Diesel to produce a gallon of ethanol?
Corn doesn't just grow wild and get harvested by hand.

Not a clue on my part, I grow hay, don't row crop. Bad enough.

 

[Citydude]

How many people know the quantity of Diesel to produce a gallon of ethanol?
Corn doesn't just grow wild and get harvested by hand.

Totally depends on the tractors/machinery used in preparation, planting and harvesting and the lay of the land.