new tractor idea possibly....

[boggen]

ggrrr seems to be problem with "quick reply" -> "attach image" button images are loading if i goto "go advance" -> "manage attachments" -> "drag and drop" and insert images in line....

will toss all the images i have in this post... 60 plus *cringes*

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[aczlan]

In the last idea on this one:

View attachment 280326

Why not mount the cylinder to the triangular engine protection frame rather than having the long straight vertical piece?
Green and turquoiseish-blueish are cylinders and black is an arm that is hinged at both ends:


Aaron Z

 

[boggen]

In the last idea on this one:


Why not mount the cylinder to the triangular engine protection frame rather than having the long straight vertical piece?
Green and turquoiseish-blueish are cylinders and black is an arm that is hinged at both ends:
View attachment 280398

Aaron Z

so a telescopic hyd cylinder that had multi stages. kinda like a dump truck, were cylinder was attached to truck and dump bed right near cab. vs positioning cylinder closer to rear of truck for both connections to make a shorter hyd cylinder that was larger in diameter.

i like it! but forces on the long cylinder. and the multi stages. (worries me some)

if i could get say 2 to 4 feet vertical distance between lower link and upper link, i think i might be happier. due to it changes the weight balance around and pivot points. and perhaps allow for a smaller size frame for the STB tractor. though at this point i am only purely guessing.

how i figure i got current links ((forget everything in this old diagram)) exception bottom right corner diagram showing hyd links.

there is only a few inches in difference were the links physically connect to the implement. and that is going to cause a huge amount of "bind"
if those connections points on implement get further spread out. i would think there would be a better "fine tune adjusting" of lowering the implement. and how high you want front or back of implement off the ground. along with reducing a good portion of "binding".

heck "float the implement" off the ground. or perhaps "hovering" across the ground.

 

[boggen]

suspension bridges and cranes.... along with block and tackle. along with telescopic multi stage hyd cylinder. and then a lower link arm with hyd cylinder on it... go further and 2 frames one above the other, and supported by chains. to let sections "float" and move across the ground. might as well due it to the max!



can the frame of the implement and frame of the STB tractor be reduce enough. to a point were you actually need to place weight of the STB tractor back onto the implement. so that everything works correctly.... or getting out cables and block and tackles and like causing way to many failure points. resulting in down time stuck in the field.

 

[boggen]

i guess i am still stuck in 2D vs not thinking 3D.

i was wanting to keep main frame for STB, as straight as possible. from short end to short end. but i suppose it does not have to be. other words the main frame does not have to a perfect rectangle.

 

[boggen]

starting to run out of quick click colors, in the paint program. that comes with microsoft windows :/

 

[boggen]

getting back to what Aaron Z noted. for telescopic multi stage hyd cylinder. with freedom to get around the main frame.

with multi stage hyd cylinder. able to attach cylinder to implement further out away from the STB tractor. but boy... cylinders are by no means light weights... they are HEAVY! i would hate to know what the telescopic multi stage hyd cylinder would weigh, and try and man handle it and get a pin in....

there would need to be a 3rd little baby cylinder. just to make attaching / UN-attaching implement easy... but even then, you would almost need either second person to mess with levers / buttons to adjust multi stage cylinder and the baby cylinder. or some sort of wireless remote control.... *ughs*

 

[boggen]

been thinking about quick hitches for 3pt hitch category 1 and category 2, then thought about the old tractors.... snap couplers for allis chalmers. more specifically the "bell housings" there was like a funnel on bottom side of tractor between the wheels. and you backed tractor right into implement tongue. and the funnel would help guide things, and when the Eye bolt like end slid all the way in. there would be a springed pin. that would latch the tongue once in place. then you may have to hope off of tractor to connect the arms that hyd cylinders on them to the implement.

what i am interested in is the "bell housings" or funnels. and also interested in "electronic spring pins with manual release". all combined with a quick hitch... or rather i should say half of a quick hitch...

there is already spacing between the "wide sides" of the STB tractor just to get around the tires when in transport mode. so... might as well. use that space up with a quick hitch. unlike a typical current age 3pt hitch tractor, a quick hitch would cause less overall lift ability due to sticking implement out further behind tractor. but in this case for the STB there is wasted space between implement and edge of the STB due to the wheels.

but there is some problems.... i would hope the links on the STB tractor like current age tractor 3pt hitches. sway back and forth a couple inches. not much but just a little. i was thinking about some sort of funnel either on implement or on the links. to help "guide" everything together.

remember STB you will not be attaching just one implement but multi implements most likely at one time. and a quick turn of the wheels could through everything off for multi implements. reason why i was think about the bell housing or some sort of "funnel".

the electronic pin with spring for auto latch with an optional for manual unlatch. was thinking more for quickly un hooking from an implement, the pin would electronically open up. then a sensor built in to let farmer know everything is locked in for attaching implement from the cab.

the only way to make it easy for electrical pin, would be if the electrical pin was mounted on tractor. i would imagine it would be much easier to also have funnel on tractor side as well.

i am not sure the old allish chalmers "snap coupler" would work. do to limited degree of movement up and down, that would be needed to fold / unfold implements on the STB tractor. but.... hmmmsss....

 

[boggen]

was thinking making the upper end attachment point on implement. slightly bigger width wise (horizontal) vs the lower attachment point. so it is less likely you hook upper attachment point into the lower attachment point that is on the quick hitch on the tractor.

i think B in last post diagram might work better as a funnel. if following the last paragraph. MAKE special notes on hyd cylinders on tractor. if the links were flipped upside down. i most likely flip the quick hitch upside down as well. due to how the hyd cylinders work. and being able to reach quick hitch out to get one of the attachment points connected. then moving a cylinder to get second attachment point connected. though that would mean end points on implement would need to be flipped upside down ARGH!!!

maybe it would be better just to make end points on implement same size. would possibly make things cheaper in "bulk" buying / making for manufactures. and have reduced cost to customers. and leave the extra frustration of getting things hooked into wrong attachment points left to the farmer. i suppose pending on implement being about to attach top attachment point on implement to lower attachment point on quick hitch might be an advantage, and let farmers possibly pick up an implement just a tiny bit out of reach. to get both attachment points connected. it is not like they can not push a button and unlatch either attachment point and try again.

======================
if implement needs any sort of hyd hookups, or electrical connections for sensors and like. i was thinking farmer could get implements attached first to the STB. and then just fold the implements up. get out and walk down the machine, plugging in hyd lines and electrical connections. as needed for implements. since implements would be folded up on to the STB. there would be no climbing over anything. and a nice easy walk down the length of the tractor.

 

[boggen]

for reference "oscillating bearing" for use in links. to allow some degree of movement side to side.



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hhmmmssss... perhaps instead a single large nut. some sort of large metal 0-ring. with ball bearing grove. and then bolts that torque down into the bottom portion of the 360 joint...

maybe that is it. 3 pieces to the joint. 2 large outer pieces (1 top 1 bottom) that has bolts that torque down all the way around. and then a smaller inside disc. with ball bearings on each side of it.

hhmmmsss never really thought about it. "but how" does everything actually rotate. i would imagine with some sort of hyd motor with a sprocket attached to it. that turns rotates a track that is attached to the 360 joint. but.... were and how does it connect... do things turn inside of the 360 joint?

 

[boggen]

its all in the attached diagram.

 

[boggen]

the large gear inside the 360 joint. instead of a grove and key.. drill some holes through gear into the bottom portion of the 360 joint and tap the holes. and use bolts to hold gear to bottom section. that might hold up a lot better. and transfer forces better.. hhmmsss....

just realized forgot to show bolts that are torqued down to hold top and middle sections together...

thinking there may want to be some sort of "large" reduction gearing. and perhaps some how build a hyd gear pump (done in opposite way, hyd oil spins shaft, vs shaft pumping oil) directly into the reduction gearing and drive gear. then again... it might be better to place motor out side the 360 joint itself.

if motor is placed outside the 360 joint. there really would not be any room above or around the top of the 360 joint. but possibly more room under it... hhmmsss...

been thinking of redoing the "weight distribution" cylinder setup so there are 2 cylinders. making room in center off to a side, for a possible motor to turn the 360 joint.. hmmssss

 

[boggen]

is there really need for wires going down to the hydrostatic transmission? what about just sending extra pipes over pipes over pipes... through center of the 360 joint. so only thing that goes back and forth is hyd oil down to the wheels. and then place valving up above the 360 joints. BAH. that would create a bunch of extra junk that would be prone to breaking down.

what about using pipes like "linkages" that went through center of the 360 joint... kinda like linkages / rods that go between levers on tractor to some valve located some place else on the tractor, or down to transmission.

hhmmsss... on other hand, there is going to be a large amount of drive shafts possibly all spinning at different speeds. i would imagine some sort of RPM sensor and torque sensor or like would be wanted. so computer had ability to control traction and adjust speeds.

instead of running multi wires down below the 360 joint. perhaps run a hot, ground, and couple sensor wires. and then put a relay/fuse and computer chip below the 360 joint. computer chip mainly to accept all singles from sensors and then put that info out to the couple sensor wires that come down below the 360 joint.

even if electric motor/s ran the wheels vs hydrostatic transmission/s, i would assume above would still hold true. except instead of hyd oil pipes. there would be room for the larger electrical wires. just to keep amount of wires down to a min amount. and keep the "special" electrical fitting (that rotates with 360 joint) from getting extremely expensive and more prone to failure.

 

[boggen]

the 360 joint... hhmmsss "slew" never knew... or even thought of it like a bearing...
supply slewing bearing VLU 200414

lots of bearing types...
Single row ball four-point contact type, Slewing Ring Bearing - China Single row ball four-point contact type Manufacturer & Supplier

bearings hhmmss...
Bearing for sale*|*Archive*|*Slewing bearings

guess it helps to search... saw a couple designs and instead of ball bearings. perhaps rollers, and them some angle rollers or something... for the 360 joint... *rubs chin* so many choices.... time to move onto something else.

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the support frame work for the links around the STB tractor. thinking of some sort of or U channel metal. with extra support err width on the tops of the U were holes would be drilled for PINS. that would hold hyd cylinders, to solid bars. to fold/unfold implements. with holes spaced every 2 to 3 inches for pins... to allow for adjustments and different attach points. for various implements.

 

[boggen]

trying out discs configurations....



at moment like 8 gang (4 on back row, 4 on front row), or 2 gang (1 back row 1 front row). but something is still not there for the 2 gang.

not really happy about the 4 gang (2 back, 2 front). just not seeing it, perhaps it is just physically how and were i placed the blue lines (discs) and not seeing things line up. like i do on the 8 gang.

*shrugs*

 

[boggen]

had to draw it



got so far along. and started to see what a pain in the rear it would be, and a good amount of "failure" points. just one pin/axle goes. and entire tractor could be down. just way to much force would get applied if just one attachment point took all the force from say hitting a rock, and wipe out an entire track. and bending and twisting all the scissor like links...

ah well had to see what it would look it....

 

[boggen]

with multi implements being attached to a single side of the STB (side train box) tractor. trying to think of a way to connect the implements together.....



the 3 prong pitch fork, type of lock you might see on gate or garage door... i was more along thinking might be overall easier. due to it would allow individual implements to slide towards tractor or away from tractor. so one implement might go down or up a hill. while letting the implement right next to it. to still follow the hill some. but still allow some slack to move freely to some extent.

not really liking the pure flat bars. that go between 2 implements. i could almost see them getting twisted and bent. resulting in implements not being able to move as freely. and causing implements wanting to jamb up.

though pending on type of implement or just all together... is there a need to get implements to attach to each other.... it is not like there are already 3pt hitch like hyd links that each implement would connect to.... would it be better to be able to "fold" or raise each implement individually. so if ya getting near to being done and on final pass. being able to raise or fold a couple implements so ya not going back over what you already done....

then again, perhaps instead of the flat bars. putting in some heavy duty springs? hhhmmss...

ya, and i thought looking at all the implements over the years, and then resent googling to look at stuff would make things simple as night and day... time to get back to the basics and reduce complexity....

 

[boggen]

bottom plows.... in furrow.... or multi not in furrow setups... hmmss....

 

[boggen]

no longer remember what this implement is called....



it is not a ripper / potatoes plow. due to the large triangle that is down in the dirt is wide as in 2 to 5 feet width. it almost looked like a tail of an air plane. with the horizontal wings and then the single vertical flap.

if memory serve it, was placed on some sort of tract dozer. just to get the HP, weight, and traction. to pull this thing through the ground.

just assuming. it acted kinda like a bottom plow. but rather it just lifted all the soil above the triangle up. and caused the soil to loosen up and then dropped the soil right back down. without turning the dirt over like a bottom plow. errr acted like a chisel plow or ripper and breaking up the hardpan....

i want to say i remember seeing 2 or 3 triangles on some of these. perhaps the upper triangle was used to keep the implement from going to far down into the soil.

 

[boggen]

RECAP 3



post# 81 = all diagrams from the previous 80 posts.

been jumping all around on different ideas/subjects.

for most part shortened overall width of machine, and redid how the links (3pt hitch like links) connect to the STB (side train box) tractor.
i suppose i should start saying 2point quick hitch connections.

the quick hitch locking mechanism and implement ends for quick hitch. are still up in the air. of exactly what they may look like. and more of a concept thought. and no actual design to them as of yet.

went through 360 joint. but not really drawn out fully and attempted to fit into the small space for the motor that spins the 360 joint. see posts 90 to 94 for more info on 360 joint. more specifically the special fitting to get between rotating wires... not real sure about the actually how the 360 joint will go together. i kinda went into it, and then left it as is... without redrawing and rechecking..., re thinking about it.

redid cylinder to cylinders for moving wheels back and forth under the machine. though not much detail on them yet.

started to get into various implements but early doings on them... and more currently mind set of looking at various implements and ways that might work for various implements but more chicken scratch drawings. to get a broad over view of how things might work and attach.

still undecided / unsure what would be the primary source for this machine, drive shafts and gearing, electricity, or hyd oil. just really not there yet....

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i want to go take another looking at the wheels and the "dead man circle" and look at "tracks" and perhaps transport wheel combination. and possibly loosing the 360 joint and redistributing weight cylinders. that i doubt loosing them will happen. also want to look at a 2 long tracks, and then 2 shorter tracks, (1 long, 1 short) per side of transmission/motors

or going with 4 or 8 short tracts were tracts act like caster wheels, and loosing the primary 360 joint and redistributing weight cylinders (possibility).

along with possible some sort of "suspension" or rather something that might allow the wheels or tracks in this case to slightly lean side to side backwards and forwards just a couple inches. just enough so as to keep all tires or tracks firmly on the ground across the entire width of the tire or track.

at moment kinda thinking if i went with tracks for (field mode) and then a tire on each side for (transport mode). i might be able to reduce the dead man circle. by another couple inches or a couple feet perhaps...