Snow Equipment Owning/Operating Newbie with a 3 mile snowplow challenge

[PeatMoss]

Dear Fellow Tractor fans,
I live at 5,000 ft. Caretake a year round camp. I think the camp needs a tractor for 2 reasons.
1) We have a gravel road, a 1/4 mile loop from an asphalt road to the camp and back. It needs grading about once a year. What kind of tractor would be best for a job like this? Is a gannon box enough?
2) Our county may limit their snowplowing activities next winter. This means I may have to bring our guests up a 3 mile asphalt road in weather that can dump snow 5 feet or more on the road. Could I use a tractor and sled in such conditions or should the camp buy a couple of snowmobiles or a more expensive Snow Cat??
Appreciate any insight I can get here. Thanks!
PeatMoss

 

[Rock knocker]

Pretty county up there.

From what I've seen, snow can come and go there. A good sized tractor with a blower would do a swell job, and be useful in summer.

Snow cats are finnicky, and it takes time or money to have high reliability, more so than any wheeled tractor

 

[Don87]

I would opt for a large 4wd turbocharged tractor(due to the elevation), with a V-plow mounted on the front, and a snowblower on the back. Guests probably won't like parking 3 miles away.

 

[jerrybob]

Welcome......I like Don's suggestion....would work well. Mt. Shasta is beautiful country......great brewery in Weed. :thumbsup:

 

[Ted Summey]

I agree with the need for a "full-sized" 4x4 tractor - at 50 plus hp. You should have a cab tractor as well! Blowing/plowing snow can't be "fun" on an open station tractor! The advice for a plow/snow blower combo is very good advice. On Mt Shasta I suspect a block heater will be an absolute necessity as well. Chains on the rears will be a very useful addition as well.

 

[PeatMoss]

A good sized tractor with a blower would do a swell job, and be useful in summer.

Snow cats are finnicky, and it takes time or money to have high reliability, more so than any wheeled tractor

Dear Rock knocker,
Thanks for your thoughts. I agree with you about Snowcats. The Forestry Service around here seems to always be tinkering with their's. Unless one has a specific need for them, such as very deep snow on mountain terrain, they seem pretty impractical for the average joe like me. It would frighten me to have to buy a used one. The new ones are too expensive.
PeatMoss

 

[PeatMoss]

Dear Don 87,
"MF GC2400, FEL, 60in.MMM, 5ft. Cultivator, Single Bottom Plow, Bush Hog RTC48 tiller, MF 2360 front mount snowblower, 5ft backblade. BXpanded Piranha toothbar."
Wow! There is a mouthful! I'll dig into this right away! All those letters & numbers are greek to me. But they are handles to this new exciting world I'm about to enter. Thanks for the tractor tips!!
PeatMoss

 

[PeatMoss]

I agree with the need for a "full-sized" 4x4 tractor - at 50 plus hp. You should have a cab tractor as well! Blowing/plowing snow can't be "fun" on an open station tractor! The advice for a plow/snow blower combo is very good advice. On Mt Shasta I suspect a block heater will be an absolute necessity as well. Chains on the rears will be a very useful addition as well.

Dear Ted,
You guys are great! Thanks for the sound advice!
This may be more appropriate in the other thread about equipment, but might you have a good full sized 4X4 in mind (with cab and heater)? How much might it cost? Same for a good plow/snow blower combo?
Thanks again!
PeatMoss

 

[leonz]

Dear Ted,
You guys are great! Thanks for the sound advice!
This may be more appropriate in the other thread
about equipment, but might you have a good full sized 4X4 in mind (with cab and heater)? How much might it cost? Same for a good plow/snow blower combo?
Thanks again!
PeatMoss

Hello PeatMoss,


Until you know what money is available for a purchase the point is moot.


We can go one spending your money but until you know exactly how much
you have to use to make a decision it cannot be seriously examined.

There is both good iron and bad iron and unless you plan on spending for a mule with at least
85 horsepower, 4 wheel drive, , detachable front end loader, loaded tires and a 7 foot snow caster
that will remove Cascade Concrete without grunting let alone farting when exertion is needed all is moot.


A couple of sleds with wide tracks will be much less money and then you can seriously examine the issue.

Lots of folks use very small tractors with and without cabs and rear mounted snow casters to remove snow
over long distances.

The sleds and a very small 4 wheel drive with a loader,front and rear mounted snow casters will go
along way when clearing things and the dirt working implement cost will be less.


The issue is the total number of snow events that occur, thier duration and accumulation total for
the year are how something like this is examined.

Just dont go into a dealer wanting to spend money on iron because most dealers will take advantage of you.

Untill you know what is being used by the other locals in the area the issue is dead in the water and Cascade Concrete will be unforgiving.

 

[Egon]

Skidoo with a towed sled.:thumbsup:

The tractor/equipment required for the conditions prevalent in your area will be some expensive and a lot larger than you expect.

You'll also have to include a time factor to get the road serviceable if patrons are coming and going:thumbsup:

 

[Ted Summey]

PeatMoss, I really don't care to recommend a specific tractor because there are several brands that are reliable and capable. Personally, I am partial to Kubota but John Deere, Case IH. New Holland, Mahindra, Kioti and others make quality tractors in the size and features mentioned above.

In the Kubotas, look at the M series. Expect $35,000 plus for a NEW cab tractor alone minimum. Then add the cost of front end loader, snow plow and snow blower.

 

[Skiah]

Not sure what your terrain looks like but it's a lot quicker and more comfortable to plow snow in a truck. I have a tractor and a Chevy Diesel pick up with a V plow. I would choose the truck to plow any day. Snow blowing around the door yard or where there's no room to plow makes perfect sense. 3 miles is a long way to snow blow or plow with a tractor.

 

[North Country]

Skiah - absolutely. A plow truck is the way to go.

Everyone here has hammers, so they're looking for nails - but the right tool is a full-sized truck with an 8 ft plow, not a tractor. Ask anyone who clears snow for a living what tool they want for 3 miles of paved road - and you'll universally get "truck."

You can buy a very reliable used plow truck for much less than the price of a 50HP closed station tractor and have enough left over for a nice used 25HP sub-cut and attachments to handle the maintenance of the 1/4 mile of gravel.

 

[leonz]

PeatMoss, I really don't care to recommend a specific tractor because there are several brands that are reliable and capable. Personally, I am partial to Kubota but John Deere, Case IH. New Holland, Mahindra, Kioti and others make quality tractors in the size and features mentioned above.

In the Kubotas, look at the M series. Expect $35,000 plus for a NEW cab tractor alone minimum. Then add the cost of front end loader, snow plow and snow blower.

Not sure what your terrain looks like but it's a lot quicker and more comfortable to plow snow in a truck. I have a tractor and a Chevy Diesel pick up with a V plow. I would choose the truck to plow any day. Snow blowing around the door yard or where there's no room to plow makes perfect sense. 3 miles is a long way to snow blow or plow with a tractor.

Skiah - absolutely. A plow truck is the way to go.

Everyone here has hammers, so they're looking for nails - but the right tool is a full-sized truck with an 8 ft plow, not a tractor. Ask anyone who clears snow for a living what tool they want for 3 miles of paved road - and you'll universally get "truck."

You can buy a very reliable used plow truck for much less than the price of a 50HP closed station tractor and have enough left over for a nice used 25HP sub-cut and attachments to handle the maintenance of the 1/4 mile of gravel.

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The heavy wet snows he receives there are referred to as Cascade Concrete
and a plow truck will in no way handle it.

He is dealing with melt freeze cycles that make very very dense snow pack and it does
not melt very well during the snow season when the chinook winds are heavy and bring
plenty of hevay wet snow and wild temperature swings along with it.

The other issue is snow banks as they do not melt very well either and the heavy snow pack
will only be managed with a snow caster.

 

[North Country]

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


The heavy wet snows he receives there are referred to as Cascade Concrete
and a plow truck will in no way handle it.

He is dealing with melt freeze cycles that make very very dense snow pack and it does
not melt very well during the snow season when the chinook winds are heavy and bring
plenty of hevay wet snow and wild temperature swings along with it.

The other issue is snow banks as they do not melt very well either and the heavy snow pack
will only be managed with a snow caster.

I'm familiar with Cascade Concrete, but I wasn't aware that everyone up there used blowers. I've seen mostly plow trucks. Are they all wrong?

Perhaps the issue is whether or not he'll be able to plow regularly, as other snow removal companies do. If he's only clearing the road on demand when someone wants to visit, he'll need a snow thrower. If he's doing it after every storm, a plow truck will be fine.

Chinook winds melt snow. They're call "snow-eaters," not "snow-makers." If they do create snow, they create powder - not cement.

 

[Egon]

If the snows are frequent with no melt there is a limit to which a plow can work.

 

[North Country]

If the snows are frequent with no melt there is a limit to which a plow can work.

Which is why you plow frequently during big storms.

Look around the country - you'll see the prime choice of snow removal professionals all over the place is the truck & plow whenever the amount to be removed is measured in miles. It's cheaper & faster than a tractor. Are there tractors and/or snowblowers in use in some specialized areas? Sure, but there's nothing to indicate (yet) that this is such a case.

If he isn't able to plow frequently, then a tractor/blower may be better - but he's a "year round" caretaker that "brings guests up." That implies to me that he's in residence at the camp year round and a plow is the right choice.

 

[PILOON]

I did contract snow for about 12 years in the Laurentians north of Montreal (and know most contractors in area)
A plow equipped truck is the fastest and most economical method. 4 X 4. Diesel (man tranny) 3/4 ton with 8 ft Fisher is what I suggest.
New not even necessary, good used GMC or Ford and maybe chains for icy days.
You plow as wide as possible to start as things tend to get narrower as time goes by. The distance is not that great so I'd forget a side wing (costly), just make more passes,( like push it all in the ditch if possible), sure by spring the road might get narrow, like so what. (maybe push open a couple of passing spots).

Now if really choked up any blower equipped tractor can (on a sunny day) leisurely widen the choked spots.
Heck even an open station old 8N ford would do it.

With a blower figure 2,3,4, MPH while blowing and with truck more like 30 MPH.

A tractor for in and around cabins, that I see, maybe 25-30 HP, hydrostatic with 5-6 ft blower FEL and cabin.

Also you might even need to consider some sort of sanding arrangement for those icy events.

 

[Egon]

Which is why you plow frequently during big storms.

Look around the country - you'll see the prime choice of snow removal professionals all over the place is the truck & plow whenever the amount to be removed is measured in miles. It's cheaper & faster than a tractor. Are there tractors and/or snowblowers in use in some specialized areas? Sure, but there's nothing to indicate (yet) that this is such a case.

If he isn't able to plow frequently, then a tractor/blower may be better - but he's a "year round" caretaker that "brings guests up." That implies to me that he's in residence at the camp year round and a plow is the right choice.

So where does the snow go when it's higher than the plow and can't be shoved aside?

The skidoo and sled are the cheapest option.

 

[RWK in WI]

Something not equipment related BUT we have had situations where if a road / driveway wasn't kept plowed so emergency vehicles couldn't get in the insurance company would cover fire or accident. Also buildings couldn't be rented or have paying guests.
Just something to think about.