No Guts HI gear HST

[Steve_Miller]

Robert,

I've been reading this topic with great interest and I honestly believe you have a problem. Everyone is talking about the hydro popping off or not set high enough. I'm not an expert in hydraulics by any means but inside this magic box (transmission/hydro pump/hydro motor) there is a hydraulic motor that has a swash plate (I'm assuming it works this way), a hydraulic pump (to provide flow), a charge pressure to control the swash) and a relief valve to vent pressure when it becomes too great. This swash plate is what I think you have the problem with. There should be a charge pressure controlling this plate, it may not be set correctly. I may be way off base here but is it something that could be looked at. If so I hope it helps, if not I've prolonged this thread by another post.

Steve

P.S. When I had a CK20HST at my house for a test drive I tried a few things with it. One thing was driving into a pile of loam to get a bucket full and the little beast would not even attempt to spin the tires, it just sat there dumbfounded the same as me. No matter where I had the hydro pedal it would not push. For comparisons sake I did the same for the TC24DA I tried and it did the same thing, as far as the B7610, it crawled right into the pile until it couldn't get any more in the bucket and it would have buried itself spinning the tires if I would have let it. This is when I decided I was going to stick with a gear version. I bought the Kioti over the others on price and features which the NH & Kubota could not match the Kioti on.

 

[getut]

More testing to come tomorrow.

I am running a little over my 50 hour fluids change. I'm at 68 hours.... I loaned it to a Church for hay rides over halloween and it was at like 56 hours then. Didn't have time to change anything before it went... then my newest kid was born 3 weeks ago, so finally got a chance to change ALL the fluids and filters tonight. Only got to run it about 30 minutes under no load just to check for leaks.

Tomorrow I am having 8 tons of crush-n-run brought in on a dump truck and piled in front of my barn. I sure hope the fluids and filter change makes a tremendous difference in power. I'll be using the box blade for many hours tomorrow grading off an area that is holding water and then spreading the crush-n-run over the top of that.

I hope, I hope, I hope.

 

[mathey]

OK, I just completed the infamous "CK20 2x4 HI-RANGE TEST"

SUBJECT VEHICLE: CK20HST, 320 hours, FEL on (54" material bucket), PHD on (no auger on), Industrial tires inflated to recomended pressures

TEST CONDITIONS: night-time, 37 deg F, 5 min engine warm up, on dry flat pavement. Got off after each try to place boards up against rear treads on both sides

2WD, 1000 RPM: Climbed over board, albeit slowly
2WD, 1500 RPM: Climbed over board without much engine "strain"
2WD, 2000 RPM: Climbed over board with ease

4WD, 1000 RPM: Climbed over board without much engine "strain"

I stopped there...(hey, I didn't put a jacket on, I was cold!, not to mention what the neighbors must've thought... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

OTHER NOTES: I believe I was one of the first 2-3 to actually take delivery of a CK20 here on TBN, not sure what that means exactly, other than the build date. Mine would have been built in Feb 2003 or so.

I consider 1000 RPM basically idle. I do most work in both hi and lo ranges at between 2000 and 2500 RPM.

CONCLUSION: I haven't a clue! Could be a few isolated cases. Could be a simple change in suppliers of parts used in the HST assembly.

With my CK, I mow (48" rotary) all the time in hi range, without effort. I use hi-range for a lot of things that I do, but when the going gets tough, I use low-range, that's why its there. I have been extremely satisfied with my CK for almost 2 years now, it's done everything I've asked and then some. Is it for everyone? No. Today I got my FIL's TC25 front wheel stuck in a crater shaped hole about 8" deep...hi-range wouldn't pull it out, mid range wouldn't pull it out, but it went out in low range. Go figure...

 

[Bob_Skurka]

mathey, this is good news indeed. In my mind the conclusion is that Getut has an isolated problem. He may not be the only one with it, but it is not a design issue and it is not systemic to all CK20HSTs. So while it doesn't solve Getut's problem, it does give him some evidence that his has a problem, and that can be shown to the Kioti rep who inspects his tractor.

 

[lcisled]

Well, Cdt80 and I could not take it any more and had to find out ourselves. We had two CK20's - One with 137 hours and one with 32. Both HST.

It had snowed this AM so you can about figure the temp. On the high hour machine we started it up and put the 4x4 behind the tire-no warm-up. Higher RPM - not max. Right up and over - 2x4 or 4x4. Confidence reinforced. Lower hour machine had warm up time and went right over as well. Decided to try a 6x6 test. Max RPM. Once again, right over. The tractor knew it was there, but once again, it went over.

So have we proved anything-only to ourselves. We can understand the frustration that Getut has with a machine that has no power. We no longer have to wonder as our machines have what they say they have.

I think this is old news by now, but at least we believe this problem is isolated and not the norm. By reading through this thread today we see we are not the only ones who have done the test and had positive results.

Good luck guys figuring out what is causing your tractors to have inadequate power. I am interested in what the solution will be.

 

[getut]

Well I put about 5 hours on mine today after the fluids and filter changes.

I can say I had mixed success. The short story... it improved. It will go over a 4x4 now, but struggles greatly to pop up on top. The long story is that I still don't think it is right. It was too wet to mess with the crush-n-run that I had hauled in today, but perfect to burn my pile that has been waiting without risk of setting the rest of my pasture on fire. I've been working the pile so much getting it ready that there is almost a moat around the pile where all the vegetation is wore off and water is standing. A good 4" deep swampy mud pit. While turning the pile a couple of times I could not push the FEL in very deep and stalled the HST with no tire spin what so ever even in the extremely soft muck. Working back and forth with different pedal positions and input levels still yielded no push into the pile and an unwillingness to even turn the tires once under a little strain.

Oh well. Guess I'm back to waiting on Kioti to get back with me.

 

[KiotiJohn]

Well, I've run through this whole thread, and I finally can not stand by without a reply. Getut, you mentioned a part of one of my PMs to you, but you failed to include the most important part of that PM in which I told you what the engineering manager at Kioti told me to tell you. Here is a copy/paste of that part of the PM from me to you.
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I did have a conversation with the Kioti Engineering Manager yesterday about this. He stated that on some of the CK20s, the plug in the relief valve has a spring that sometimes hangs up allowing fluid to bypass. In some cases, only replacing the plug repairs the problem. Sometimes, the whole valve has needed to be replaced. I suppose this is a problem that can happen intermittently as well, but I'm not sure. )</font>
You have continued to go on and on about this problem, but it seems you have not pursued the repair recommended to you. This makes me really wonder what your objectives are in this. Why have you not addressed the problem I told you about? Why have you not mentioned it in any of these threads? I gave you a valid answer, and it has been completely and utterly ignored. I begin to wonder if you even own a CK20. Can anyone really wonder why I would feel this way? You have espoused a lot of bad publicity for this tractor without ever having mentioned that you attempted the fix stated by the engineering manager.
I'm afraid this reply is going to sound a lot harsher than it's meant to, but I believe I make a valid point in your ommission of my statements to you in the PM. You and Bob both danced all around the spring issue, and you still didn't mention what I told you. I don't get it.
As a matter of fact, I would be willing to come to NC and check out your tractor to compare it to what I know it should be doing. If you want, contact me at mexjohn@bellsouth.net and I'll come check it out. Or, I can speak with someone at Kioti to see if I can get someone there to help you. It's up to you. John

 

[ccdck20hst]

KiotiJohn, Thank you for this informative and helpful reply on this thread. I had my CK20HST TLB delivered in May 2004 and I have read all the helpful threads I could on this model - your posts have always helped me to learn more about the tractor. As a new first time owner of a TLB I have a lot to learn! I do not think my unit has this problem but if it developes I want to know how to diagnose it. There are some subtle things that must be remembered with the hydraulics like checking the fluid level with the FEL bucket on the groud fully retracted and with the hoe bucktet on the ground all cylinders in retracted position (owner manuals). Thanks again for this emperical data on the spring in the plug in the relief valve. Charlie

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Doccruz wrote: <font color="red"> I didnt realize such a sore spot existed about the HST. I originally purchased the gear model because the dealer stated it had a live PTO. But it didnt and he substituted it with a HST model. I have a 54 inch snowblower so live is a must. I am having all the HST problems that GETUT is having. I know how he feels. My Koiti dealer is primarily a snowmobile dealer. If I want any real HST service I wouldnt know where to go. This should be a recall, or modification fix by Kioti. </font>

Doccruz, as you are the one who started this thread, and as you have identical problems to Getut, then perhaps you should contact Kioti directly. KiotiJohn knows some of the folks at Kioti, if you don't know where to turn then maybe he can help you.

 

[cdt80]

Thank You KiotiJohn! I have only responded a couple of times on this forum and after all this I had made up my mind I was NEVER doing it again.
However, I would like to add one more thing:
No matter what brand of tractor (or any peice of equipment for that matter) you own there is going to be maintainence/repairs. Those that approach this fact realistically will have much success and enjoyment. I am not pointing fingers and this is strictly hypothetical /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif but constant negative attitude or looking to stir up trouble doesn't really seem to accomplish much.
Thanks KiotiJohn for being a great "go to" guy on this forum!