Not Charging

[bmaverick]

That's cause it is the same part. These are basically generic.

NICE. Glad our tractors are NOT so COMPLICATED like the newer emission and computer limp mode home machines.

 

[California]

NICE. Glad our tractors are NOT so COMPLICATED like the newer emission and computer limp mode home machines.

Amen bro. My Yanmars have never been off the place since I bough the first one (YM240) in 2003. No need for an expert mechanic because everything was designed to be completely obvious and easy to get to. Today's tractors aren't like that.

 

[bmaverick]

Amen bro. My Yanmars have never been off the place since I bough the first one (YM240) in 2003. No need for an expert mechanic because everything was designed to be completely obvious and easy to get to. Today's tractors aren't like that.

Having a fully restored YM to better than new got my attention fast after seeing the Fredrick's machines. I have the best of both worlds. It's NEW as in restored to being better with the safety stuff and none of the modern stuff to give headaches.

Just like this thread here, we can discuss and help one another solve the issue of the day. Our machines are simple. Getting parts are another story at times, not always.

 

[clemsonfor]

Ok, so I'm back revisiting this. I just put a new ebay's finest voltage regulator on. Still doesn't seem right. Those of you who's charging systems work what do they measure at idle after you start it up, how about 2000 rpm. I'm guessing it should be 14+V or at least mid 13s.

This one was battery voltage when I first cranked up. 12.40 volts. But after about 5 mins I was showing up to 12.6 so it went up but that's still not even a battery at 100% so something seems wrong here . When I test the pin on the connector closet to the center of the alternator, the 2 pin connector is what I'm talking about, I get 20+V. The big wire on the back just shows battery voltage. This large wire on back I would guess should be showing at least 13.5 if I'm charging as should the battery...I would think.

Thoughts?

 

[bmaverick]

Ok, so I'm back revisiting this. I just put a new ebay's finest voltage regulator on. Still doesn't seem right. Those of you who's charging systems work what do they measure at idle after you start it up, how about 2000 rpm. I'm guessing it should be 14+V or at least mid 13s.

This one was battery voltage when I first cranked up. 12.40 volts. But after about 5 mins I was showing up to 12.6 so it went up but that's still not even a battery at 100% so something seems wrong here . When I test the pin on the connector closet to the center of the alternator, the 2 pin connector is what I'm talking about, I get 20+V. The big wire on the back just shows battery voltage. This large wire on back I would guess should be showing at least 13.5 if I'm charging as should the battery...I would think.

Thoughts?

Do you have the brand or model you bought off the eBay then?

While looking at all of these VRs, many have become a 'generic' to the internals so as other tractor brands can use them. It has me guessing what's the real type to work on my machine and yours.

I'm attaching a Yanmar Service Bulletin I happen to find. This was in 3 different languages too.

So, IF the newer VR is used, then this dummy unit thing isn't needed on the tractor.

 

[clemsonfor]

Do you have the brand or model you bought off the eBay then?

While looking at all of these VRs, many have become a 'generic' to the internals so as other tractor brands can use them. It has me guessing what's the real type to work on my machine and yours.

I'm attaching a Yanmar Service Bulletin I happen to find. This was in 3 different languages too.

So, IF the newer VR is used, then this dummy unit thing isn't needed on the tractor.

It's china made. It was like $20 off eBay. I will have to go see what the box says. But if you look on eBay and search yeanmar ym2000 voltage regulator it's one of the ones that come as up from many different sellers it rangers from like $20-25. It's a solid state electric one. My light is not on, it was I think flickering at the start of this whole ordeal, bit I forget so much I will have to go ba k to read my original post at this point. But the dash has no light on.

 

[clemsonfor]

It's china made. It was like $20 off eBay. I will have to go see what the box says. But if you look on eBay and search yeanmar ym2000 voltage regulator it's one of the ones that come as up from many different sellers it rangers from like $20-25. It's a solid state electric one. My light is not on, it was I think flickering at the start of this whole ordeal, bit I forget so much I will have to go ba k to read my original post at this point. But the dash has no light on.

Box says Transpo number ih811 I guess is model number. That's on the box

 

[Williy]

the simplest way to check to see if the alternator is working is
turn the tractor off. get a volt/ohm meter hold the probes on the
battery terminals start the tractor if the voltage does not go over 13
or even more you alternator is not working. You can purchase
a rectifier/diodes same thing from an auto parts store or is you
know an electronics friend you can purchase diodes from an
electronics store and make your own rectifier cheaper and you
don't even have to remove anything just mount it so it don't
move. If the regulator is bad sometimes you can give them a
wack and they will work. you can also get a gm alternator I can't remember if they have one or 2 wires

willy

 

[Williy]

for future reference: Amazon.com: Friday Part 12V Voltage Regulator for Yanmar Tractor YM180 YM186 YM187 YM220 YM1601: Automotive

$24.00 Why don't you modify and purchase a cheap ford voltage
regulator

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c/masterpro-ignition/charging---starting/voltage-regulator/bcb09f5b993f/masterpro-ignition-voltage-regulator/mpi0/2vr1?pos=5

$20.99

willy

 

[Grumpycat]

Ok, so I'm back revisiting this. I just put a new ebay's finest voltage regulator on. Still doesn't seem right. Those of you who's charging systems work what do they measure at idle after you start it up, how about 2000 rpm. I'm guessing it should be 14+V or at least mid 13s.

This one was battery voltage when I first cranked up. 12.40 volts. But after about 5 mins I was showing up to 12.6 so it went up but that's still not even a battery at 100% so something seems wrong here . When I test the pin on the connector closet to the center of the alternator, the 2 pin connector is what I'm talking about, I get 20+V. The big wire on the back just shows battery voltage. This large wire on back I would guess should be showing at least 13.5 if I'm charging as should the battery...I would think.

Thoughts?

No voltage regulator will put 14V in a bad battery unless the battery is very bad and not charging no matter the voltage across it.

Another bad scenario is that you have a shorted cell so your 12.6V is 5 cells at 2.5V each which is overcharged. We used to use hydrometers to test charge on each cell. When low/no maintenance chemistry appeared these fell out of favor because they required too much skill to know whether the battery was good or bad. Different electrolyte chemistry has different densities so what fails for one is perfectly good for another. But try teaching that to the counter help at the autoparts store? Nonetheless, if you still have one, use it to compare every cell. Don't worry about absolute values. If one stands out as odd then in all likelihood your battery is bad.

Yes, healthy regulator, alternator, and battery should hit 14.4V. At reasonable temperatures a fully charged lead-acid battery will be 12.6 volts under load but requires 13.6-13.8 to charge to that state.

With any luck your battery is simply low due to previous bad regulator and hasn't got to where it is going yet.

 

[clemsonfor]

the simplest way to check to see if the alternator is working is
turn the tractor off. get a volt/ohm meter hold the probes on the
battery terminals start the tractor if the voltage does not go over 13
or even more you alternator is not working. You can purchase
a rectifier/diodes same thing from an auto parts store or is you
know an electronics friend you can purchase diodes from an
electronics store and make your own rectifier cheaper and you
don't even have to remove anything just mount it so it don't
move. If the regulator is bad sometimes you can give them a
wack and they will work. you can also get a gm alternator I can't remember if they have one or 2 wires

willy

Yea that's what I did I have battery voltage at battery basically I know it's not charging right. Usually solid state rectifiers I don't think will benefit from a whack that's the old mechanical type I'm sure. GM alternators are one wire. There as much or more as just buying. The alternator out of a late 70s nissan which is the correct alternator for the tractor. But yes you could mount a mini gm one wire alternator into it.

 

[clemsonfor]

for future reference: Amazon.com: Friday Part 12V Voltage Regulator for Yanmar Tractor YM180 YM186 YM187 YM220 YM1601: Automotive

$24.00 Why don't you modify and purchase a cheap ford voltage
regulator

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c/masterpro-ignition/charging---starting/voltage-regulator/bcb09f5b993f/masterpro-ignition-voltage-regulator/mpi0/2vr1?pos=5

$20.99

willy

I paid $20 for what I have that's the correct VR. But that's clearly not the issue as with the new one it's doing the same thing.

 

[clemsonfor]

No voltage regulator will put 14V in a bad battery unless the battery is very bad and not charging no matter the voltage across it.

Another bad scenario is that you have a shorted cell so your 12.6V is 5 cells at 2.5V each which is overcharged. We used to use hydrometers to test charge on each cell. When low/no maintenance chemistry appeared these fell out of favor because they required too much skill to know whether the battery was good or bad. Different electrolyte chemistry has different densities so what fails for one is perfectly good for another. But try teaching that to the counter help at the autoparts store? Nonetheless, if you still have one, use it to compare every cell. Don't worry about absolute values. If one stands out as odd then in all likelihood your battery is bad.

Yes, healthy regulator, alternator, and battery should hit 14.4V. At reasonable temperatures a fully charged lead-acid battery will be 12.6 volts under load but requires 13.6-13.8 to charge to that state.

With any luck your battery is simply low due to previous bad regulator and hasn't got to where it is going yet.

Your correct a healthy 100% charged battery is 12.65. these tractors do not take much power to crank. This battery while a little weak is still good. It can sit for months without cranking and still start. But yes if this battery showed like 9v and I jump started the tractor I can see the battery voltage being low especially right after startup. That's not the case here. I started the tractor under its own power.

 

[rScotty]

Clemsonfor, your original post back last Oct. sounded to me like it could be a bad battery. It wasn't clear to me just how you tested it.

Anyway, the first thing I do when a battery reads low is make sure the battery is good. I take it out, charge it overnight with a smart charger, and then let it either sit overnight or put a mild load on it for half an hour. Load/time takes the surface charge off the battery plates so you can determine if the battery is good.

If it is still holding over 12.5 volts the next day I figure it is a good battery, and if it holds over 12.25 I figure it has a little life left. Anything less than that might start a Yanmar with a compression release, but can also make charging voltage measurement less reliable. If the voltage is at the low end or debateable, I may decide to let it set a few more days - or put it back in the tractor and check charging voltages at various RPMs.
luck,
rScotty

 

[bmaverick]

Box says Transpo number ih811 I guess is model number. That's on the box

Did you read any of my PDFs added? Does your new VR require you to rewire items off of the dummy unit? I would highly suggest looking at the Yanmar Service News Bulletin before replacing anymore parts. This is for YM gray market and US market machines with the VR p/n's listed. Then again it could go to other p/n's as Yanmar is known to change numbers at times.

 

[clemsonfor]

Did you read any of my PDFs added? Does your new VR require you to rewire items off of the dummy unit? I would highly suggest looking at the Yanmar Service News Bulletin before replacing anymore parts. This is for YM gray market and US market machines with the VR p/n's listed. Then again it could go to other p/n's as Yanmar is known to change numbers at times.

Did you read any of my PDFs added? Does your new VR require you to rewire items off of the dummy unit? I would highly suggest looking at the Yanmar Service News Bulletin before replacing anymore parts. This is for YM gray market and US market machines with the VR p/n's listed. Then again it could go to other p/n's as Yanmar is known to change numbers at times.

Yes I read it, didn't quite follow it, thought it was just saying you didn't need the light?

 

[clemsonfor]

Clemsonfor, your original post back last Oct. sounded to me like it could be a bad battery. It wasn't clear to me just how you tested it.

Anyway, the first thing I do when a battery reads low is make sure the battery is good. I take it out, charge it overnight with a smart charger, and then let it either sit overnight or put a mild load on it for half an hour. Load/time takes the surface charge off the battery plates so you can determine if the battery is good.

If it is still holding over 12.5 volts the next day I figure it is a good battery, and if it holds over 12.25 I figure it has a little life left. Anything less than that might start a Yanmar with a compression release, but can also make charging voltage measurement less reliable. If the voltage is at the low end or debateable, I may decide to let it set a few more days - or put it back in the tractor and check charging voltages at various RPMs.
luck,
rScotty

Yes I have done this. I have used a smart charger on the battery and after surface charge it still had a decent charge. I will throw it on a smart charge now and then tomorrow morning get the voltage after it settles out.

 

[California]

Are we talking about a regulator for YM2000? It's the same regulator (and alternator) as early 70's Datsun. Datsun/Nissan went to a slightly different alternator about 1973 but the same regulator continued for a few more years. It might be easier to find voltage specs for Datsun instead of Yanmar.

The regulators were originally mechanical with points and high-amperage bleed resistors, while the modern replacements are potted semiconductors.

If you have no improvement after replacing the alternator, it sounds like you mighty have a bad ground or connector somewhere. I think this is more likely than a weird battery.

Or possibly one of the multiple diodes in the alternator is bad. This happened in my Subaru, dim headlights at night but never a dead battery. I finally got it tested and learned I had been running at minimal charging current for a couple of years. As I recall the replacement alternator was $160 at Autozone, compared to the $29 or so you are looking at for your alternator.

 

[clemsonfor]

Clemsonfor, your original post back last Oct. sounded to me like it could be a bad battery. It wasn't clear to me just how you tested it.

Anyway, the first thing I do when a battery reads low is make sure the battery is good. I take it out, charge it overnight with a smart charger, and then let it either sit overnight or put a mild load on it for half an hour. Load/time takes the surface charge off the battery plates so you can determine if the battery is good.

If it is still holding over 12.5 volts the next day I figure it is a good battery, and if it holds over 12.25 I figure it has a little life left. Anything less than that might start a Yanmar with a compression release, but can also make charging voltage measurement less reliable. If the voltage is at the low end or debateable, I may decide to let it set a few more days - or put it back in the tractor and check charging voltages at various RPMs.
luck,
rScotty

Ok after I posted my first response to yours I went out and put my battery on my 2 year old smart charger (Stanley brand) . It charged for 30 mins or less till I heard it beep. It was then in float load holding it at 13.1v. I turned it off and just now over 12 hours later I checked the voltage on the battery and it's at 12.71v.

I do not have a load tester.

 

[clemsonfor]

Are we talking about a regulator for YM2000? It's the same regulator (and alternator) as early 70's Datsun. Datsun/Nissan went to a slightly different alternator about 1973 but the same regulator continued for a few more years. It might be easier to find voltage specs for Datsun instead of Yanmar.

The regulators were originally mechanical with points and high-amperage bleed resistors, while the modern replacements are potted semiconductors.

If you have no improvement after replacing the alternator, it sounds like you mighty have a bad ground or connector somewhere. I think this is more likely than a weird battery.

Or possibly one of the multiple diodes in the alternator is bad. This happened in my Subaru, dim headlights at night but never a dead battery. I finally got it tested and learned I had been running at minimal charging current for a couple of years. As I recall the replacement alternator was $160 at Autozone, compared to the $29 or so you are looking at for your alternator.

Yes we're talking the late 70s Yanmar regular. I have the kind on it and that I replaced where it's bedded in epoxy and sealed. I have checked the late 70s nissan alternator off Rock Auto and it's under $40 more like $35. There is two sizes a larger output and smaller output.

I had your very same thought about a bad ground. I need to take the main ground off at the battery and frame and clean it up. Also try again to clean up the alternator ground.