Oil shortage-NH style

[jgh]

8/15

Well, Bird, here is where I tell you why I asked about Kubota UDT hydraulic oil.

I experienced an odd Power Shuttle transmission failure on my <font color=blue>TN90F New Holland</font color=blue> over the weekend. Panic when she wouldn't go fwd, and only back sometimes. Though I had had brief instances of no-go before Saturday, I had assumed that the shuttle needed adj or that I was hitting some kind of strange timeout. It never lasted more than a few seconds. Not this time. And there were flashing error code lights to boot.

In mid-despair I thought to check the hydraulic oil level. Oh, boy. /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif/w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif

After adding 2 gals to this 32 hour machine, I have yet to touch the dipstick. Where the H did it all go? Counting up the impls with cylinders--loader, Hog, landsc rake, bale gripper, 4 in one bucket--surely some went there. And there were leaks with some of them (moral of that story, use PINK plumbers tape on the fittings, esp the none-brass ones).

But 2+ gals from a 14.5 gal system and it stops vital systems in their tracks?

I am concerned /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif that 1) it may not have been full on delivery/w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif, 2) that no one checked it after the loader was installed (it has been a bit jerky)/w3tcompact/icons/mad.gif, and/or 3) this may not be the only problem/w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif.

Later today, I hope to speak to my dealer's service mgr to check out that error code #. Trying things out with the 2 gals added did not make any discernible difference/w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif, so of course I will fill it the rest of the way.

What effects of low hydraulic oil have the rest of the group experienced? Can it do permanent harm? This is kinda weird as you can imagine /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif.

Thanks as always /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif,

Jim

 

[Bird]

Jim, there's more that I don't know than there is that I do know. I've just never had mine get more than a pint low, but a couple of years ago, while helping a neighbor in the hay fields and using a big old Oliver tractor (have no idea how much hydraulic oil it holds), it would get to where the hydraulics failed to properly raise the hay cutter or the tailgate on the baler, and we'd add 3 to 4 gallons of hydraulic oil and it'd work fine again for another 3 or 4 days. In other words, it leaking about a gallon a day. Now I couldn't stand that with a piece of my equipment, but when you consider the fact that you don't need to add oil to a 4 quart crankcase in your car until it's a quart low (25% low), how low can your hydraulic oil get before adding oil? But like you, I'd definitely be talking to the dealer.

Bird

 

[DVerbarg]

I've seen similiar problems with other utility tractors where there were no obvious oil leaks under the tractor but fluid disappeared. Based on my past experience I would check out the hydraulic implements that you were using. My parents have a MF275 that needs a quart a year but when they borrow a neighbor's haybine they suddenly need to add 1/2 gallon a week later.

 

[Hawgee]

It sounds like you have enough info to trouble shoot where it went. You will HAVE to fill to dipstick to see how much was missing. Then, I would focus on the power source. All oil has a temp rating and then a flash point. If you had approached the oils flash point, the paint would have started to change colors on the tractor. /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif With total gallons gone figured out, I would talk with dealer on how long it had operated with low level and how heat may have left damage. Also time for starting over with new oil because of heat degradation.

"What is a weed? A plant whose virtues have not yet been discovered."
Ralph Waldo Emerson (1803-1882)

 

[W5FL]

Sounds like you did not check all the fluid levels when you got your new tractor. /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

Check them all now, including oil, water, and hydraulic fluid. Sometimes new hydraulic fluid is colorless (or nearly so) so be sure to check and re check the levels.

Call the dealer and find out what the codes mean first.

Check that none of the drain plugs have come out.

I would then use a longer dipstick to find out how much oil is in there and then fill it up to the correct fill point. Then check everything again.

Always check the hydraulic fluid before and after using the external hydraulics or adding a new implement that uses hydraulics. You should not have used ANY hydraulic fluid under normal conditions in 32 hours.

 

[gordon]

Whenever you are using any attachments that leak even alittle bit or so it seams you can really run the fluids down quick. But I'm not telling you anything you havn't figured out yet already.

As for not checking all the fluids when you first got the tractor or after running it for a few hours---bad bad bad.

This is for everyone ALWAYS CHECK THE FLUIDS WHEN NEW AND AFTER THE DEALER SERVICES YOUR EQUIPMENT. What may be perfectly full at the dealership after plugging in the loader and forgotten to be checked or rechecked and it goes on from there getting alittle lower at each plug in or small drip if you get the picture.

I don't get the meaning of the pink teflon tape??? whats the matter with the white am I missing something???

The good thing is that the warning lights did go off and hopefully no damage done.
Gordon

 

[PBMAX]

Gordon, just a guess but I would think the pink indicates a higher pressure capabilities...When I did control work we built skunk systems (adds oder to natural gas )we used yellow tape for this reason over white...(course the color could been brand oriented)...

Lil' Paul

Laziness is the Father of invention.../w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

 

[jgh]

Re: pink tape

8/16

Tough bunch here /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif. I did check the engine oil and water, brake fluid, etc. Shoulda known, been more thorough. With the goofy things shops do on cars in for service....

We lost all our wagon's ATF once because some dealer idiot doing service on the AT case put the pan back on with the speedo cable running against the gasket. Oh, fun on the road, strange car dealership on a holiday....

First the pink tape. Several fittings on my impls had the white plumbers tape on them. I have done a lot of (water) plumbing and started using the PINK tape instead when I found that the white would tolerate no imperfections in the pipe, etc, and leak readily. The pink is heavier.

The yellow tape is specifically for gas work. Have that too for our mobile fryer hookups.

Somewhere recently I recall someone on here questioning whether any tape was necessary or even a good idea on hydraulic hoses. Well, Bradco thinks it's needed, but the damn white tape they used left one leaky joint out of 2.

I will do a separate post on the oil saga /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif.

Jim

 

[jgh]

8/16

First a big thanks for all the replies so far! Tough bunch you are, but right that I should have checked the levels.

I have now added a total of 4.5 gals to a 14.5 gal hydraulic system, to hit the end of the dipstick, but NO change in the dead shuttle (it still goes into reverse--randomly & sometimes), or the error lights (actually they never stopped, really). I forgot to mention that a warning light for low hydraulic pressure never has come on, so I have no clue as how far down the level must be to cause trouble. Since as one poster insinuated, cooling is one job of the fluid, it probably can still mechanically function with a lot missing.

Dealer SM was responsive over the phone, looked up the code, which turned out to be "need to reset the clutch potentiometer" which the manual says do by, surprise, pressing the clutch pedal. He did not really answer when I asked if low oil could cause such a fault. Don't think he knew.

Fortunately I have not really stressed this machine too much so far, so I hope the damage potential due to heat is low.

The irksome thing is that according to my owners manual, the way this fault/error code is presented means it's one I should be able to reset myself out of, not a permanent one requiring dealer intervention.

I will report back to the SMgr Weds AM that there was no effect.

This is NOT fun.

/w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif/w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

Thanks AGAIN. I will let you know the latest and always, please let me know anything you come up with,

Jim

 

[scruffy]

Re: pink tape

Jim, funny you should mention ATF in a wagon, I bought a 58 Ford Sunliner from a Chevy Dealership many years ago for $125. They had put a new a new tranny in for an old couple, and it went bad two days later. The old couple bought a new chevy, I bought the Ford and filled it with ATF and burnt rubber off the lot! Funny how those things 'just' happen.

 

[jgh]

8/28

And now for the conclusion of our story...

After screwing around for days over the phone, etc, trying to avoid a trip (270 mi RT including trailer pickup/return), I went to meet the factory rep and the SMgr at Boone Tractor on Friday. They worked on my tractor, including test driving extensively to make sure, until well after 5 PM, and no one fussed about wanting to go home. Good people.

Factory rep John Bender has the patience of a saint, the looks of a physician/the work ethic of a good mechanic, and the voice of Peter Graves. Very interesting man to meet, with Ford/New Holland since before 1980. Did I tell you the dealers ALL love him? Add a customer to that list.

/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

It was indeed a fault in my Power Shuttle switch. What was consternating was that I had installed a replacement sent to me by the dealer, but since I could not recalibrate and clear the error codes, they succeeded where I failed. A $200 special calibration/analyzer unit is now on my Christmas list. And a service manual. I like Wen's goal of self-sufficiency, to a point.

Tractor now spins like a top, better than when delivered since I have a full hydraulic reservoir /w3tcompact/icons/mad.gif.

Funny [not] how my tractor's illness almost paralleled that of Mark Chalkley. Glad to have both "back on line".

Wen, my friend, I will most definitely watch all those fluid levels.

This is a great group. Thanks to all for your suggestions and advice, as always,

/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Jim

 

[W5FL]

Glad you are back in operation. Yes, watch the fluids, that is what Mark got confused on. He checked the tractor fluids and forgot to check his own. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

 

[Hawgee]

Thank you for sharing. We have learned much of the Company's view as well as the people they chose to represent them. My experience with the electronics and setting the base reostats have only been limited to auto's. Some of us old iron people are getting something with every post.

Thank you.

"What is a weed? A plant whose virtues have not yet been discovered."
Ralph Waldo Emerson (1803-1882)

 

[MarkV]

Jim,

Sure are glad to see you back up and running. That is such a nice tractor you bought I know it hurt to have it down. Lets hope thats it for the next 20 years.

Your place is on our "have to eat at" list next time we are up that way. Think I can see that machine of yours for dessert? /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

MarkV

 

[jgh]

20050404

April fools, not really about oil, unless you count the oil leaking out...

Thought I'd wake this one up with the long promised picture of my little boo-boo last Fall (no pun intended, for sure).

$1500 and my pride were the only damages other than a bruise. Wear your seat belt and you, too, can survive your own stupidity.

Jim
Mt Burgha Farm in Fluco on the Rivanna

 

[JoshJ]

How did you get it back upright, and, if you dont mind me asking, what was the $1500 for?