ericbx1500
Gold Member
Not sure what you mean?? If your talking about the post yes. It is one piece of 4x6 from under the gound up to the truss carrier(header). I used sinkers to attach the header to the post.
pole barn questions
- Thread starter JimMorrissey
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2nstonge
Gold Member
Jim,
The wood was NOT PT, it's all natural rough sawn pine. Posts are true 6x6. I've been here 3 years (previous owner built the pole barn) and I can see the posts deteriorate before my eyes. My soil is a typical VT mix of clay, glacial till and good ol' farm dirt - all of which is great for holding water and drying veeery slowly.
When I repair it I will use the 'bigfoot' & sono tubes below frost line. I'll also encapsulate the bottom end of the posts with a self stick/seal rubber membrane that roofers use, and, tie it to the concrete pier with Simpson metal ties. I did 12" sono tubes x 4ft deep for a deck this summer, each tube held (5) 80lb bags of concrete & I could do 4 tubes in a day (dig thru pour, of course my BH doing all the digging & an electric mixer that held 1.5 bags of mix).
I hope to fully enclose the pole barn some day - the barn is 40ft wide x 80ft long - just think, 14 bays, 10ft high x 12 ft wide x 20 ft deep - and since I'm on an open field I'm concerned about wind and it having a nice big area to catch - I want this thing anchored.
-Norm
The wood was NOT PT, it's all natural rough sawn pine. Posts are true 6x6. I've been here 3 years (previous owner built the pole barn) and I can see the posts deteriorate before my eyes. My soil is a typical VT mix of clay, glacial till and good ol' farm dirt - all of which is great for holding water and drying veeery slowly.
When I repair it I will use the 'bigfoot' & sono tubes below frost line. I'll also encapsulate the bottom end of the posts with a self stick/seal rubber membrane that roofers use, and, tie it to the concrete pier with Simpson metal ties. I did 12" sono tubes x 4ft deep for a deck this summer, each tube held (5) 80lb bags of concrete & I could do 4 tubes in a day (dig thru pour, of course my BH doing all the digging & an electric mixer that held 1.5 bags of mix).
I hope to fully enclose the pole barn some day - the barn is 40ft wide x 80ft long - just think, 14 bays, 10ft high x 12 ft wide x 20 ft deep - and since I'm on an open field I'm concerned about wind and it having a nice big area to catch - I want this thing anchored.
-Norm
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JimMorrissey
Veteran Member
Yeah, that's what I meant. I asked because I've heard of guys going .6 on the bottom and building out the top in standard lumber. Apparently you found some .6 lumber in 4x6 format, which is sweet.
OP
JimMorrissey
Veteran Member
I agree....you want it anchored. With the loader on a BX I could easily lift a large sonotube deck and pull the posts and concrete right out of the ground.
ericbx1500
Gold Member
Jim are you unable to get .60 in a 4x6 or 6x6. Here I can get either up to I think 16ft long? I know mortan builds there pole barns that way. They use post frame construction up to two feet out of the ground then use conventional framing. I believe there reason behind this method is it’s much easier to insulate the structure. I have a friend who had a mortan barn built. Very nice but it wasn’t cheap.
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JimMorrissey
Veteran Member
Can't get any marine lumber......All has to be special ordered and along with the special order is the "special" price /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
ericbx1500
Gold Member
so you have to special order a piece of pt 4x6?
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JimMorrissey
Veteran Member
Eric,
Pretty much everything around these parts is considered "ground contact" PT which is .4 The more serious treated wood is .6 and that's hard to find. The marine grade stuff is a lot higher something like 2.0, made for salt water. That's the stuff to get for long term survival. They use it for building permanent docks and bulkheads.
Pretty much everything around these parts is considered "ground contact" PT which is .4 The more serious treated wood is .6 and that's hard to find. The marine grade stuff is a lot higher something like 2.0, made for salt water. That's the stuff to get for long term survival. They use it for building permanent docks and bulkheads.
ericbx1500
Gold Member
Cedar and redwood stakes lasted an average of 4-5 years before they were destroyed while untreated southern pine sapwood lasted only two years. Wolmanized pressure-treated southern yellow pine, however, is still in good condition after 20+ years of exposure. Predicted service lives for the various species and CCA retentions of treatment are listed in the following table.
SPECIES HEART/ SAP TREATMENT AVG. LIFE
W.R. Cedar Sapwood Untreated 3.5 years
W.R. Cedar Light Heartwood Untreated 2.3 years
W.R. Cedar Dark Heartwood Untreated 5.2 years
Redwood Heartwood Untreated 5 years
S.Y. Pine Sapwood Untreated 2 years
S. Y. Pine Sapwood Wolmanized 0.25 pcf 20 years*
S.Y. Pine Sapwood Wolmanized 0.40 pcf 28 years*
S. Y. Pine Sapwood Wolmanized 0.60 pcf 40+ years*
SPECIES HEART/ SAP TREATMENT AVG. LIFE
W.R. Cedar Sapwood Untreated 3.5 years
W.R. Cedar Light Heartwood Untreated 2.3 years
W.R. Cedar Dark Heartwood Untreated 5.2 years
Redwood Heartwood Untreated 5 years
S.Y. Pine Sapwood Untreated 2 years
S. Y. Pine Sapwood Wolmanized 0.25 pcf 20 years*
S.Y. Pine Sapwood Wolmanized 0.40 pcf 28 years*
S. Y. Pine Sapwood Wolmanized 0.60 pcf 40+ years*
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JimMorrissey
Veteran Member
Yeah, the .6 is awesome stuff. I just can't find it locally. When I build my barn, I'll have to special order the .6 or go for the gold with the marine grade @ 2.0 + /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Hi Jim-
If you plan to DIY and are concerned about pole rot, you might consider doing what I did - I went with steel poles. Welded up a steel cage at the base of each to hold the concrete together in the holes and spread the load. I like steel for the poles because it doesn't rot or warp, twist, etc.
Pictures, etc at this web page..
Good luck with your building.
Mark
If you plan to DIY and are concerned about pole rot, you might consider doing what I did - I went with steel poles. Welded up a steel cage at the base of each to hold the concrete together in the holes and spread the load. I like steel for the poles because it doesn't rot or warp, twist, etc.
Pictures, etc at this web page..
Good luck with your building.
Mark
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JimMorrissey
Veteran Member
Nice building.
I'll likely go with wood, but will have to order .6 spec PT or higher for the poles. Lots of water all over VT. .6-.8 will last until I'm in the grave (so they say).
I'll likely go with wood, but will have to order .6 spec PT or higher for the poles. Lots of water all over VT. .6-.8 will last until I'm in the grave (so they say).
LBrown59
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</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Nice building.
I'll likely go with wood, but will have to order .6 spec PT or higher for the poles. Lots of water all over VT. .6-.8 will last until I'm in the grave (so they say). )</font>
======= <font color="orange">****** </font> =======
Some of the pole builders in this area are going with treated up to about 2 or 3 feet above ground then on up to the top with regular lumber for poles.
One advantage of this is you get straighter poles with fewer twist / warps in them.
It also results in heavier post than going with a treated post all the way up to the top
My next door neighbor had a pole barn built this way.
A couple of years before that I had a 30 x50 PB built with 4x6 treated post top to bottom.
I also had a 22 x 76 PB built with 4x4 treated post top to bottom. I plan on adding a 50 foot extension on the right end of this building. I plan on doing the post like those in my neighbors
building. This will give me 4x5 inch post in the extension as opposed to the 4x4 inch post in the rest of the building.
I'll likely go with wood, but will have to order .6 spec PT or higher for the poles. Lots of water all over VT. .6-.8 will last until I'm in the grave (so they say). )</font>
======= <font color="orange">****** </font> =======
Some of the pole builders in this area are going with treated up to about 2 or 3 feet above ground then on up to the top with regular lumber for poles.
One advantage of this is you get straighter poles with fewer twist / warps in them.
It also results in heavier post than going with a treated post all the way up to the top
My next door neighbor had a pole barn built this way.
A couple of years before that I had a 30 x50 PB built with 4x6 treated post top to bottom.
I also had a 22 x 76 PB built with 4x4 treated post top to bottom. I plan on adding a 50 foot extension on the right end of this building. I plan on doing the post like those in my neighbors
building. This will give me 4x5 inch post in the extension as opposed to the 4x4 inch post in the rest of the building.
LBrown59
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<font color="blue"> <<
1*I used 4X4 pressure treated poles
2* I used one 80 lb. bag of quickcrete per pole and tamped soil to fill the balance of the hole.
TNhobbyfarmer
Silver Member >>
************ </font>
Most people use 4x6 or 6x6 post>What made you decide on 4x4 poles?
1*I used 4X4 pressure treated poles
2* I used one 80 lb. bag of quickcrete per pole and tamped soil to fill the balance of the hole.
TNhobbyfarmer
Silver Member >>
************ </font>
Most people use 4x6 or 6x6 post>What made you decide on 4x4 poles?
LBrown59
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<font color="green"> I am currently in the process of adding 2x4 purloins on the inside of the 4x6s and am going to put 7/16 OSB horizontal around the base of the walls, 1/2 inch sheet rock for the upper part and fill the walls with blow in insulation.
Farwell
Gold Member </font>
>>>> >>>> >>>>
I plan on putting up the OSB inside too.
I expect to attach it directly to the post to eliminate using purloins.
What I don't like about the purloins is you loose 4'' of floor length and another 4'' of floor width by using them.
Eliminating the inside purloins is quicker easier cheeper and conservers floor space.
I'm going with spray on foam insulation for a better insulation value which allows for a smaller heating / cooling more efficient operating unit.
Farwell
Gold Member </font>
>>>> >>>> >>>>
I plan on putting up the OSB inside too.
I expect to attach it directly to the post to eliminate using purloins.
What I don't like about the purloins is you loose 4'' of floor length and another 4'' of floor width by using them.
Eliminating the inside purloins is quicker easier cheeper and conservers floor space.
I'm going with spray on foam insulation for a better insulation value which allows for a smaller heating / cooling more efficient operating unit.
LBrown59
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<font color="purple"> 1*I've heard concrete poured to the top of the hole will rot the posts in very moist Vermont.
2*I've heard others say it's best to pack the hole with tamped stone so the water doesn't sit permanently around the pole.
JimMorrissey
Veteran Member </font>
< > < > < > >< >< ><
1*That's why you stop the pour about 4'' below ground level and fill the hole on up with tamped earth.
2*So now you have a hole below grade with some gravel in it to collect water around the poles.
2*I've heard others say it's best to pack the hole with tamped stone so the water doesn't sit permanently around the pole.
JimMorrissey
Veteran Member </font>
< > < > < > >< >< ><
1*That's why you stop the pour about 4'' below ground level and fill the hole on up with tamped earth.
2*So now you have a hole below grade with some gravel in it to collect water around the poles.
LBrown59
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<font color="brown">
1*Were the 4x4 posts recommended by an engineered plan? or your decision?
They seem to be on the thin side from what I would expect of posts holding a shed that size.
2*My 24x24 has 6x6 treated posts with tamped crushed limestone packed around them.
beenthere
Elite Member </font>
=============== >>
1*I've found that 4x4 or 4x6 post are big enough.
With a 6x6 post you loose 4 inches of floor length and width.
You also loose the 4 inches of floor length and width if you face the 4x6 post the wrong direction.
2*How is the water ever going to drain out of holes that are below ground level?
1*Were the 4x4 posts recommended by an engineered plan? or your decision?
They seem to be on the thin side from what I would expect of posts holding a shed that size.
2*My 24x24 has 6x6 treated posts with tamped crushed limestone packed around them.
beenthere
Elite Member </font>
=============== >>
1*I've found that 4x4 or 4x6 post are big enough.
With a 6x6 post you loose 4 inches of floor length and width.
You also loose the 4 inches of floor length and width if you face the 4x6 post the wrong direction.
2*How is the water ever going to drain out of holes that are below ground level?
LBrown59
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<font color="blue">
Aren't you concerned that the posts could pull out of the ground and your building sail away in a very heavy wind, say 75-100 mph?
JimMorrissey
********************** </font>
The wind would most likely rip the building apart before it pulled the post up out of the ground unless of course the post were only buried a foot or so deep.
Aren't you concerned that the posts could pull out of the ground and your building sail away in a very heavy wind, say 75-100 mph?
JimMorrissey
********************** </font>
The wind would most likely rip the building apart before it pulled the post up out of the ground unless of course the post were only buried a foot or so deep.
ericbx1500
Gold Member
======= <font color="orange">****** </font> =======
Some of the pole builders in this area are going with treated up to about 2 or 3 feet above ground then on up to the top with regular lumber for poles. )</font>
This is a practice mortan pb builders have used for many years. There reason behind this is it's much easier to insulate the building.
Some of the pole builders in this area are going with treated up to about 2 or 3 feet above ground then on up to the top with regular lumber for poles. )</font>
This is a practice mortan pb builders have used for many years. There reason behind this is it's much easier to insulate the building.
OP
JimMorrissey
Veteran Member
Yeah, I've seen that where they put treated base integrated with standard pine/spruce. That seems to make a lot of sense. It's a bit more work, but seems like the way to go.
