PowerTrac Specific Modifications

[Pete1961]

I am new to this make but interested in the T8 class - P2425 with removable backhoe, I did wonder if it would be possible to remove the hoe, & build a sleeve hitch lift to fit on the rear where the hoe was - something like this
HRH35 - Hydraulic Rear Hitch Kit - Struck Corp This is to allow a Brinly single bottom sleeve hitch plow to be used without the tractor having to run in reverse.

On the subject of the hoe, I remember this machine http://www.oilyhands.co.uk/images/Powerfab_180C_Brochure.pdf
It had a hoe that swung throu 140 deg but the kingpost swing bracket had two holes for the front pin on the swing cyl. This meant that a single cyl could either swing 90 left & 50 right, or by re setting the pin then a mirror image of before, 90 right & 50 left. Thus the full 180 arc was available to the user but not all at once. I have owned & run a couple of full size TBL's - the 180 is useful but I have never needed to go from full 90 left to full 90 right on any one job. (140 deg is the max a single cylinder can achieve before it bottoms out) They also built a small 3 pt attachment hoe with the same feature on, done the same way. Powerfab UK is sadly long gone.

I was interested in the Struck, (still am) but came across the artic steer PT & thought it a fair compromise, much cheaper in ongoing costs. I am guessing they pipe the input of the two front motors from a tee, but pipe the output from the left front to the input of the left rear, & regroup the two rear outputs to a second tee. Thus you have a hyd diff on each axle, but if one axle leaves the ground it only turns at the same speed as the axle still on the ground. The Cadplans machine did this. It has issues, & the sheer amount of work in building it is daunting
Someone spoke of the wider availability of small machines in Europe, three I know of are VF Venieri, Palazzani PB130, Eurocmach E245K.
These are all Italian compact backhoe loaders - but about 3 tons - so bigger than the smallest PT
I mostly do landscaping type work - but would find the small plow ability useful on my own land. The plow buries weeds where the tiller would not. Ideal to have one machine that can do everything - on a small scale, admittedly. I cannot find a max tractive effort quoted on the P2425, I have seen the smallest Struck pulling a Brinly & only able to provide 1000 Lb of drawbar pull. Not sure what the 4wd PT would provide relative to its all up weight.

 

[m5040]

I have heard it quoted many times that the hyd circuits are plumbed left front and right rear and vice versa. But there are different vintage machines and they improved them over the years. If I jack up the front axle on mine and rotate the left front wheel by hand, the right front turns in the opposite direction, like it had a gear differential, but it doesn't. The tram pump is what make the wheels turn and I believe whoever makes it has constructed it in such a way that you can take sharp turns without digging up ground and yet it seems to make all the wheels turn if you get stuck, but you have to depress the pedal quite a bit. With an articulated machine, you can apply light force so the wheels don't spin and walk it out with the steering (turn back and forth slowly). I had to do that today, thought I was going to have to get another tractor because I was boxed in with a big root and rocks in front of the tires and needed to go up hill, but the PT got itself out with the walking method.
PT is bad with specs, I don't think they will give you max tractive effort even if you call them. But they will spin the tires on asphalt. Wife is yelling that supper is ready, gotta go.

 

[SpringHollow]

I have a Lackender swinging minihoe that I use on the front end of my PT - I find it very handy - not just for digging but for using with the thumb to lift and move things such as logs or wood chunks when cutting firewood. The swing is centered.

Ken

 

[m5040]

PT used to offer a nice looking 3pt hitch for the 24 series (I have attached a link to a video that will start at the point showing the 3pt hitch). I guess they found that the front implement system made the 3pt obsolete for the most part.

Power Trac P T 45 Made In America . 45 H.P. A Man's Machine . Year 2000 With 600 Hours. - YouTube

 

[woodlandfarms]

I have a Lackender swinging minihoe that I use on the front end of my PT - I find it very handy - not just for digging but for using with the thumb to lift and move things such as logs or wood chunks when cutting firewood. The swing is centered.

Ken

Ken. You got pictures if what lackender did? I have his straight arm but it would be way better to have a swinging arm

 

[SpringHollow]

Sure, here you go:

 

[Pete1961]

Sorry about the delay, family illness. m5040 - I see the 3 pt is on the non backhoe model?. I did find this Three Point Lift
I did think an adaptation of the removable backhoe model would be easier as it had a beefier rear end?? to carry the maker's hoe. I think the 3pt idea more for the T12 class than the T8? I will try & speak with P-T regarding drawbar pull when I have a bit more time.
I came up with another possibility of adding a small hoe on the front 'bobcat skid steer style' - however I note that the rear hoe model in each class has greater lift height on the front arms, likely because of the rear hoe's weight.
It crossed my mind that if the maker's rear hoe was actually removed (as it is designed to be) you would then need a counterweight of some kind to allow the front end to still work as it would have done with the BH present.
Crawler shovels were based on having 100 Lb of D.B. pull per inch bucket width - TBL's not so because any tough digging meant it could be ripped by the hoe first, thus it is better if the hoe is always present & available for use?
As to the tracks vs. tires thing - I did think of having a spare set of solid flat proof tires on rims for use on jobs where needed. I saw some on a telehandler at our recycling facility. The guy said they were great but he had never driven off site or in 4th gear
I am interested in what slopes the T8 & T12 models can climb - ideally the removable backhoe versions. Thanks for the interest

 

[m5040]

Sorry about the delay, family illness. m5040 - I see the 3 pt is on the non backhoe model?. I did find this Three Point Lift
I did think an adaptation of the removable backhoe model would be easier as it had a beefier rear end?? to carry the maker's hoe. I think the 3pt idea more for the T12 class than the T8? I will try & speak with P-T regarding drawbar pull when I have a bit more time.
I came up with another possibility of adding a small hoe on the front 'bobcat skid steer style' - however I note that the rear hoe model in each class has greater lift height on the front arms, likely because of the rear hoe's weight.
It crossed my mind that if the maker's rear hoe was actually removed (as it is designed to be) you would then need a counterweight of some kind to allow the front end to still work as it would have done with the BH present.
Crawler shovels were based on having 100 Lb of D.B. pull per inch bucket width - TBL's not so because any tough digging meant it could be ripped by the hoe first, thus it is better if the hoe is always present & available for use?
As to the tracks vs. tires thing - I did think of having a spare set of solid flat proof tires on rims for use on jobs where needed. I saw some on a telehandler at our recycling facility. The guy said they were great but he had never driven off site or in 4th gear
I am interested in what slopes the T8 & T12 models can climb - ideally the removable backhoe versions. Thanks for the interest

I believe PT put the 3pt hitch on the 24 series tractor because visibility from the seat of the 14 series would be poor. On the "beefier rear end", are you referring to the weight carrying capacity? It seems PT uses the same wheel motors front and rear (the only difference is parking brake) so whatever the front has to carry with the weight of tractor plus the loader digging into a bank or carrying a loaded bucket at speed would be available on the rear. I operated one 2430 and liked it better being on the rear half (you can watch the front 1/2 on turns), but it is a elevated seating position and this brand seems more aimed at hillside operation. Note that the 2430 has a smaller oil cooler and do not offer mowers for that model. There is also no PTO drive for the 3 pt hitch, so you would be limited on implements unless you went with a hyd drive.
I think they do need more weight on the rear even know the engines are back there. My 1430 will lift the rear on turns, even with a light bulky load way out on the forklift attachment (I am presently thinking about if garden tractor cast weights will bolt into rims). The 24 series seems much shorter, without the backhoe, (your seat is at the extreme rear of the tractor) so with the hoe off I would expect you to need something in its place to keep performance up.
Let us know if you get a spec on the DB pull.
The tractors can climb slopes until the wheels spin. I think that the draft option starts with the 1430 model and up, so it lifts some of the weight off the mowers and transfers it to the tires to maintain traction and make the mower "float" somewhat. I don't think the 24 series is made for uneven terrain (side slopes), you might want to ask PT for specs on both, again let us know.
The front hoe is a viable options if you don't need it much. I bought a aftermarket straight arm hoe and it works well for digging out rocks and small trees. It only has a 10" bucket so loading material is slow. You can find a swinging front hoe but watch the weight.
I can't emphasize enough how nice the quick attach front is. You will hate dealing with 3pt implements again. Just use the hoe on the back or get a counterweight and buy a $1000 Ford 8N or 600,800 series tractor that can run your 3pt implements and lift them 3'+ high.

 

[Pete1961]

Thanks - one thing I meant to ask is this - is there a bolt or similar on the tram pump that can be turned to allow limited freewheel towing (for winching on to a trailer) in the event of a major engine breakdown? Struck have this on their twin pumps, I have seen it on another small Hystat tractor.
Re the removable backhoe models - I just thought the frame would be strong where the backhoe bolted on, & this system could be replicated in the form of a removable carrier plate for the 3pt or sleeve hitch (dependant on tractor size) I do have my doubts about trying to plow in a reverse direction, & not sitting facing forward. I will speak with P-T regarding D.B. pull.
I recognise the engine on the T8 class (Kohler command) but not the 30 Hp Diesel on the T12 class - will check this with them

 

[m5040]

Yes it has a bolt shaped valve to open to allow free wheeling, older models had to use a jumper hose I hear. The complete tractor is pretty much made out of structural steel, the higher the horse power the thicker they make the parts. Even the engine cover is pretty thick steel and a little heavy, but doesn't get damaged. When they loaded mine, they just use a fork lift.
The Deutz engine is fantastic, just a little noisy until it warms up (which changes the timing), then it is better (but not quite).