Proposed ban on gas stoves...

[CloverKnollFarms]

That's not something to laugh at. It's true. Poor people with gas stoves, no ventilation, using the gas stove for heat, things like that, increase health risks.

Well, the argument I heard here was gas stoves are very expensive anyway…. Electric is cheaper. They are also a problem in new high quality tight homes. That eliminates the poor people you speak of. You cannot use both arguments to support the same idea.
How about we fix some of the social contagions that place people in these untenable situations, instead of treating symptoms of the decline of the family, and society. Treating symptoms only helps one class… the elite class. It places power in their hands, while continuing to limit the freedom and power of individuals.
How well do electric ranges heat homes? Now that we are using that as the justification.

 

[Locoweed]

Charging EV's at night when all the solar is non producing?

 

[CloverKnollFarms]

Soon to ban cooking, who knows what is given off from cooking food and how it has a detrimental affect on children.
Soon to ban windows to offset this effect.

My electric has gone up 30%+ in the last six years.

We lose power every month, sometimes for hours due to tree fall and bad driving. If I didn't have a generator I would be in big trouble in the winter.

Ours has gone up 30% in the past year. Not a big deal for us, but the mobile home parks up the road, yes…

 

[CloverKnollFarms]

Charging EV's at night when all the solar is non producing?

That’s when they power the grid with Unicorn farts… they aren’t as detrimental as cow farts, because they smell like rainbows and sugar

 

[Dwellonroof]

The issue is tighter homes. Houses built when gas stoves first gained popularity were sieves, by comparison to what's built today.


If you check the actual usage of electricity in your home, I think you're going to be very surprised in how little you really use. I have a very large home (8100 sq.ft.) with something like 16 tons of combined air conditioning (4 units), six refrigerators and/or freezers, more than 200 incadescent light bulbs, and a 150 foot well connected to a large irrigation system. With all that, it's still very rare to see my usage much above 100 amps.

That said, it's possible that an all-electric heating system in a house in a cold climate, without a propane or oil backup, and also sharing a service with something like an on-demand DHW heater... there you could find yourself needing a service upgrade. But who would be so stupid to do that on a 200A service, without expecting to upgrade? Stick with your electric tank, or better yet go to a ASHPWH, and avoid the 60 - 80A demand of that stupid on-demand system.

EV's will be programmed to charge overnight, esp. as off-peak rates again become more common, so they really won't be interfering with your daytime peak usage. Moreover, they'll help allow for the utilities to crank up the nukes and leverage other long-time constant options, which are presently set at very low overnight minimums, and do less of the daily peak throttling with coal.

There are problems with getting to the all-electric future, but your home's electric service is not likely one of them.

Next they will ban 8100 sq.ft. houses.

 

[CloverKnollFarms]

Next they will ban 8100 sq.ft. houses.

They should. Seems like a horrible waste of resources. Think… you could house 5 families in that much space. Redistribution of that square footage should be required by law. And make each unit fully electric

 

[ericm979]

I think people are getting worked up over speculation. This issue needs research at this point, not regulations. I have noticed that Yahoo news aims towards writing articles in a manner aimed at getting people riled up and promotes polarization of opinions. I no longer follow it.

Most media does that. Social media too.

However emissions from gas stoves causing health effects is a thing. There's more and more research coming out about it. If I was building a new house I'd put in an induction cook top, and since the house would be somewhere rural, a larger generator for power outages. Burn the gas outside where it's not polluting the home's air.

 

[Oaktree]

But as electricity approaches zero cost and in decades to come, I do not see how fossil fuels can compete.

Research mainly!

The same "research" you post that claims all the legacy automakers will roll over and that Tesla will be king of the hill in 10 years? In what alternate universe will this happen?
As I recall back in the 70s one of the arguments in favor of nuclear power was that it would provide electricity too cheap to meter. How'd that work out?

My electric rate went up 119% in 2022, still the actual electricity only accounts for ~40% of my bill, the rest of it being fixed costs, distribution charges, etc. Even if thru some sort of magic the generation cost dropped to zero, those other costs aren't going away. Should an all-electric world ever come to pass, that would put everyone very much over a barrel that the electric providers own. Personal solar might be an option for some, but not for most.

 

[Oaktree]

I have to wonder if they will also look into unvented gas heaters. I don't know if it is still the case, but the user manual for some of them used to say you needed to open a window when they were operating.

I'm reluctant to have one of those for that very reason, but they're a far cry from gas cookstoves or water heaters. Seems like the researchers who came to this conclusion are the same ones that determined that drinking the equivalent of 2 gallons of diet soda a day causes cancer in rats.

 

[2manyrocks]

Well, the argument I heard here was gas stoves are very expensive anyway…. Electric is cheaper. They are also a problem in new high quality tight homes. That eliminates the poor people you speak of. You cannot use both arguments to support the same idea.
How about we fix some of the social contagions that place people in these untenable situations, instead of treating symptoms of the decline of the family, and society. Treating symptoms only helps one class… the elite class. It places power in their hands, while continuing to limit the freedom and power of individuals.
How well do electric ranges heat homes? Now that we are using that as the justification.

Whether the concerns about indoor health risks are really justified is hard to say and fact dependent. For one thing, who would install a gas stove and not install a range hood vented to the outside? There are still many multi family buildings that have gas that were built years ago and aren't well insulated. If the CPSC bans gas stoves today, it will be years before all of the gas stoves wear out and get replaced maybe with hot plates, toasters, and air fryers running on 110v outlets because the buildings weren't built to handle 220v stoves. And then there will be overheated wiring and fires.

Unemployment, drugs and crime may be bigger issues than indoor air quality to many low income households practically speaking.

 

[BX23S-1]

"Hi, i`m from the gubbermint, and i`m here to help" says no smart person ever.

Gubbermint isn`t the solution, Gubbermint is the problem.

 

[WinterDeere]

I like how the EV crowd always talks about charging at night, what about those working nights? How about all those delivery drivers bringing late night food? All the overnight maintenance runs and freight runs?

Good point. Perhaps it should be stated as, "while you sleep". Point is, for most that will be overnight, which is how overall aggregate grid loading will be managed. But in responding to the poster concerned about maxing out his own 200A service, charging while you sleep is a way to manage household usage, whatever time of day that may be.

When is peak power usage in most locales? I don't know but I bet it's not at noon....

Data is easily available, you could have looked this up yourself. It varies with climate (Florida is not same as Maine), time of year, and even weekend vs. weekday.

But it is indeed "noon" on weekends, or more specifically, noon - 6pm in most climates and times of year. Weekend usage is relatively high 8am - 11pm for most of the year, in most climates, with lowest usage 11pm - 8am.

On weekdays, there are two very high peaks, 7am - 11am and 5pm - 7pm. But even midday (11am - 5pm) shows usage more than double that of the evening and overnight hours in winter. In summer the evening remains a bit higher, due to residential cooling, but still drops off overnight.

Charging EV's at night when all the solar is non producing?

Non issue. Aggregate daytime demand will remain high enough to soak up every spare photon, no matter what time of day EV's are charging. It's really more about managing nukes and hydro, as well as whatever little bit predictive wind may add to the system. Nuclear is an under-utilized technology, in large part due to their inability to throttle up and down at the speed required to manage peak vs. off-peak usage, and our lack of a good storage solution. More EV's sucking at the teet of our grid overnight means reduced delta between peak and off-peak, means better utilization of one of our few legit non-fossil fuel sources.

 

[deserteagle71]

Mr. Muhammed, with sincere respect, the government introduced an objective to ban gas stoves. It has widespread financial implications for many of your customers.

Much like keeping the playroom toys picked up, there is no meaningful discussion to understand cause, establish impact, and identify options for resolution without speaking of the source creating the disruption.

Civil discussion should be encouraged to facilitate understanding, even if it includes the touch stone of government.

...Terry

Thank you, sir. This is exactly why I started this thread. I for one will be contacting my Congressmen - again - and expressing my displeasure with this idea of "banning" gas stoves before there is a dependable alternative in place.

 

[deserteagle71]

My electricity bill is up like 20%. Wish I could say why….

Mine has gone up 30% in the past year alone. Yet according to my bill, my usage is still the same as it has been for years.

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

"A federal agency may look to ban gas stoves over concern about the release of pollutants that can cause health and respiratory problems"...oh...ok...so when are they going to ban, say, cigarettes, cigars and pipe tobacco?
I know this is a really stupid idea, but how about a federal agency looking into fentanyl?

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

Mine has gone up 30% in the past year alone. Yet according to my bill, my usage is still the same as it has been for years.

More EVs=higher electric bills...I've said it for months now.

 

[deserteagle71]

I know this is a really stupid idea, but how about a federal agency looking into fentanyl?

What? Are you saying we should close the border to stop the flow of fentanyl into this country?

 

[WinterDeere]

More EVs=higher electric bills...I've said it for months now.

I agree, but probably for different reasons. It's not free market, supply and demand. Utilities are regulated, but more EV's, more heat pumps, and all other forms of increase reliance on an electric utility means providing them more leverage. Where opportunity exists...

On the other hand, one could hope it will also lead to more scrutiny, but I'm not an optimist.

 

[Hay Dude]

Our electrical grid is antiquated and actually failing in many locations.

We are pushing EV’s hard on our citizenry. Those will put a much greater electric load demand on an already stressed-out system.

Now they want to force electric ranges on us? Won’t that put even greater demand on the already stressed-out system?

My entire house runs on Natty-G.
I really like it since my state has the greatest reserve of it in the world right under my feet. Why get rid of this clean, abundant resource for cooking?

 

[CobyRupert]

Nobody has mentioned if it’s a good idea or what is actually happening when your stove burns propane or natural gas inside a closed room.
“It was good enough for pappy, so it’s good enough for me!”

“Meh…we’re only poisoning ourselves a little bit…a little bit of odorless, carbon monoxide won’t hurt anyone. …or the increased carbon dioxide”

…I’ll stay away from the discussions about whether the government should ban dangerous products…

…let’s just stick to the facts about burning propane and NG indoors. In possibly and sometimes vented conditions, but often not. A good idea or no?