PTO Generator?

[TonkaToy]

I use to live in a house that had a hybrid fireplace to heat the place and I have a small 5.6 KW generator which I used for a couple of things during power failures. My current house is all electric and this generator is just way too small to power the heating. We don't have many power failures, but if we have one, not fun during Canadian winters.

I have a BX25, and I am wondering if anyone has ever seen or heard of some kind of generator system that would run off the tractor? Something on the market or maybe something someone concocted on their own. I was thinking something that could run off the PTO? Also, this being as an emergency backup it would be used rarely, but if there is anything of this sort possible, any thoughts if this would be bad for the tractor's engine or just a bad idea?

I would need minimum 100 KW but could really use up to 200 KW. Dedicated units of this size are cost prohibitive, they are as much as my tractor which I can't afford, especially because the use would be just for the odd occasion. But the dedicated generator units I have seen are usually run by a diesel engine about the size in my BX.

Any thoughts guys?

Thanks

 

[kennyd]

This has been discussed LOTS here on TBN (use the search function). There are quite a few units available that are made to run off of the PTO in the 8kw through 25kw or so. General rule of thumb is that you will need about 2HP per kw generated-I believe you BX has about 18 or so PTO HP so your are looking at generating about 9kw maximum with your tractor.

100kw to 200kw is not anything close to what is needed for a standby generator! You could run a small hospital with that! My house is 5000sq.ft. and I get by quite nicely with a 15kw Generac LP fired unit. How did you come up with those numbers?

 

[TonkaToy]

Ahhh....slight error, I need minimum 100AMPS but could use 200AMPS, which should be about 20 KW...sorry

 

[Dargo]

General rule of thumb is that you will need about 2HP per kw generated-I believe you BX has about 18 or so PTO HP so your are looking at generating about 9kw maximum with your tractor.

Yes, that will be his biggest issue, lack of hp from his tractor. Personally, I find that when the power is out is also a time I need my tractor. I only have two smaller generators, a Honda and a Yamaha, that together put out about 15kw. I've found that to not even be close to what I need. My other issue is that, where I live, the most likely reason I'd be without power for a really long period of time would be due to an earthquake. That eliminates a NG powered generator because it's standard protocol for the utility company to shut off NG in that circumstance to prevent fires. Since I have a diesel tank in one of my barns, a diesel generator seems to be my best bet.

Unfortunately, two different electricians have told me that the absolute minimum size I should consider is a 30kw with a 50kw being about the right size. Buying that size self enclosed diesel generator and setting up an automatic transfer switch puts me into sticker shock. However, I recall how much of a pain it was running on gen power for over a week last winter. I guess I'm going to have to get serious and just bite the bullet and buy what I need. For some people a PTO genset would be fine. I've heard they work well but, just like my little gas units, you still have to keep fuel in the tractor and, as I mentioned, I need my tractor for other things during those times. Oh, as for sizing, I currently have 800 amp service from the utility company. I could get by with a little less, but if I'm going to spend the money, I don't want to have to worry about using something or not when the power is out.

 

[Mickey_Fx]

From a pure power standpoint, 20kw translates to 26.8HP. But with losses and the need for some spare power to handle short transient loads you're going to need more than 27 hp and I'd not want to run my tractor at full load for hrs on end. Your tractor might handle something on the order of 10kw if the genny transmission was fairly efficient and there was a fair amount of rotating mass (flywheel/kinetic energy) to help with transients.

What ever brand you look at, refer to the mfgrs recommendation on power needs for the size genny your looking at.

No fireplace in your current home? If you have one, you could add a wood burning stove insert which could take off a large portion of the electrical load now being used to heat the house. I have a pellet insert, rated for up to 37k btu's and only takes 100w to run. Fan(s) whether part of a home forced air system or portable, can aid in air circulation throughout the house.

 

[brin]

I pretty much agree wtih Mickey_Fx - I bought a 20KW PTO generator with a 40KW surge capacity and it runs fine with my NH TC- 29 - it is 29 HP and will power my whole house. I put an ad in our State Farmers bulletin for a PTO Generator Wanted and bought it from a chicken farmer who had used it only 3 times..and got a real deal on it..so you need more horsepower for 100KW ..geez, you would need a bunch ..I think it is 1.5 HP to every KW..

 

[coobie]

Yes, that will be his biggest issue, lack of hp from his tractor. Personally, I find that when the power is out is also a time I need my tractor. I only have two smaller generators, a Honda and a Yamaha, that together put out about 15kw. I've found that to not even be close to what I need. My other issue is that, where I live, the most likely reason I'd be without power for a really long period of time would be due to an earthquake. That eliminates a NG powered generator because it's standard protocol for the utility company to shut off NG in that circumstance to prevent fires. Since I have a diesel tank in one of my barns, a diesel generator seems to be my best bet.

Unfortunately, two different electricians have told me that the absolute minimum size I should consider is a 30kw with a 50kw being about the right size. Buying that size self enclosed diesel generator and setting up an automatic transfer switch puts me into sticker shock. However, I recall how much of a pain it was running on gen power for over a week last winter. I guess I'm going to have to get serious and just bite the bullet and buy what I need. For some people a PTO genset would be fine. I've heard they work well but, just like my little gas units, you still have to keep fuel in the tractor and, as I mentioned, I need my tractor for other things during those times. Oh, as for sizing, I currently have 800 amp service from the utility company. I could get by with a little less, but if I'm going to spend the money, I don't want to have to worry about using something or not when the power is out.

WOW Dargo,that 30kw-50kw seems very high to me.Being a electric lineman a 25 kv tranformer will run about 2-6 houses.I run my house(3200 sq ft)and 30X40 & 24X34 barns off my 6500 watt kubota gas gen.My house and two barns run off a 4800 volt 10 kva transformer.coobie

 

[whistlepig]

Trying to go whole house with a generator is a pretty expensive project. In some places the cost is very well justified. We went with a portable generator. Our 220V well pump is wired to a disconnect with a pigtail. When the power goes out we pull the disconnect and plug the generator directly in to the pigtail for the well pump. For backup heat we have a pellet stove. This is all the money I was comfortable spending on a place with so few power outages. I have about $2,800 invested in this basic setup including the $2,500 spent for a Honda 6,500W generator. We could get by for a good while. The only thing we would miss is hot water.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I just have a 200 amp transfer switch between my meter and panel. When the power goes out I just flip the switch then roll my 8550 Watt Troy Built Genny out of the barn and plug it in with a 25' cord I made up. It will run my whole house but my heat and hot water are on propane. We have electric for the well pump, stove, dryer, and everything else. I have been without power for 8 days at one time and 3 days another in the 5 years I have been here along with 4-5 single day outages. It averages 9 gallons a day. I let it run 24/7 when the power is out just shutting down every other day to change the oil. I keep 25 gallons of gas on hand if its been 6 months or so I just run the gas though my boat or gas cars, trucks, and equipment and buy fresh.

The genny I got on sale for $799 and the transfer switch was $300 at the local electrical supply house. I have about $50 in the plugs and had a 25' piece of 8/4wire I scavenged from a boat dock. My neighbor is a electrician so he installed the switch and outdoor weather tight plug in about 1 hour. I made up the cord while he did it.

Its worked great for me. I have used the genny a few times away from home like at a camp ground and at the lake to run welders. Its a little heavy so I put 4 lifting rings so I can put it in my truck with my FEL and some lifting straps.

This is the same transfer switch I have but the cost has went up a little.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=42163

Chris

 

[Travelover]

I don't think is reasonable to try to heat a house electrically during a Canadian winter with a generator. You would do better with a small genset (5000 watts or so) and a propane heater.

 

[Iplayfarmer]

You can either pay a lot up front for a generator that will sit idle for 99% of its life but will give you all the comforts of your home with no interruptions during a power outage, or you can go a lot cheaper and just plan to cut down on power usage for the 3 to 5 days that you might be out of power. Keep in mind too that the larger more expensive unit is going to require larger and more expensive fuel storage too.

Me?... For the cost of a full power backup generator, I can handle heating water for a bath on a propane stove and hanging clothes on a line during the rare instance of a power outage. I have a small gas generator that will run my water pump, some lights, and my heater fan.

The biggest advantage to a PTO generator is that the engine that drives it (your tractor) is used regularly, serviced regularly, and you'll know as soon as something is wrong wrong with it so that you can get it serviced and back to running again. The next biggest advantage is cost vs. Kilowatt.

I'd say get the biggest PTO generator that your tractor will easily run and maybe get a wood stove or even some of those portable kerosene space heaters. You might also see if your heating system can be divided or run on half power or some such scheme.

I get a kick out of people that will live comfortably for a week in a small camp trailer, but think that they're going to die if they don't heat and power a whole 3,000 square foot house for a day and a half if the power goes out. Cut back to one floor or a few rooms.

 

[whistlepig]

You pretty well much have to decide how much it is worth to you. Spending too much is just as bad as spending too little. Decide what you can get by with in places with few power outages. A generator is a true comfort. Well worth the money. Big or small.

 

[radioman]

The biggest advantage to a PTO generator is that the engine that drives it (your tractor) is used regularly, serviced regularly, and you'll know as soon as something is wrong wrong with it so that you can get it serviced and back to running again. The next biggest advantage is cost vs. Kilowatt.

I agree here. Although I wished I gotten a pto one instead of gas due to ethanol issues now popping up.

I get a kick out of people that will live comfortably for a week in a small camp trailer, but think that they're going to die if they don't heat and power a whole 3,000 square foot house for a day and a half if the power goes out. Cut back to one floor or a few rooms.

I nearly spilled my coffee when I read this! This is SO true!


Anyway- if you looked on this TBN ads and select the smallest PTO power: IMD, LLC 10KW PTO Generator The 10K Gen requires PTO they say is 20 PTO HP and the BX's have about 17-18 PTO power. Not only that, the other issue is the rated pto speed on the BX's which is 3200 rpms .

I am not saying it won't work, I would also love the fact of one less engine to maintain, I don't care if it ties up my tractor from doing cleanup- it can wait till the storm is over when power comes back on (even if the PTO gen is not used to 3 hours it won't hurt anybody just like iplayfarmer said above).

Just use these facts I stated for the BX's and draw your own conclusion.

 

[Dargo]

I get a kick out of people that will live comfortably for a week in a small camp trailer, but think that they're going to die if they don't heat and power a whole 3,000 square foot house for a day and a half if the power goes out. Cut back to one floor or a few rooms.

Some of us are in the position of taking care of elderly parents (remember, they took care of us for many years) and some equipment requires constant power and elderly seem to like warmth. We also have, many times, provided a warm comfortable place for other relatives to stay for quite a while when power was out. In general, applying you particular situation to other people isn't a good idea.

BTW, my idea of camping is in a class A diesel pusher motorcoach.

 

[Iplayfarmer]

Some of us are in the position of taking care of elderly parents (remember, they took care of us for many years) and some equipment requires constant power and elderly seem to like warmth. We also have, many times, provided a warm comfortable place for other relatives to stay for quite a while when power was out. In general, applying you particular situation to other people isn't a good idea.

BTW, my idea of camping is in a class A diesel pusher motorcoach.

I would wager that you'd be the first to admit you are in an exceptional circumstance with an 800 amp service, etc. I'm glad that you're intent on not applying your particular situation to the rest of us.

It sounds like you like camping in comfort. Those motorcoach's are nice.

P.S. I bet your motorcoach doesn't even use a fraction of the output of that 50 kw generator you're looking at.

 

[Iplayfarmer]

I nearly spilled my coffee when I read this! This is SO true!

Thanks. Nearly spilled coffee may be the best compliment that I could receive.

Just use these facts I stated for the BX's and draw your own conclusion.

That's it right there. It's just like Dargo alluded to... Your particular situation ultimately all comes down to our own personal needs and wants pitted against our own available resources. The OP is in his right mind by asking the question here. He's guaranteed to get a variety of opinions from different sides of the issue. In the end he'll make a more informed discussion after considering our various ramblings, banter, and musings.

 

[Dargo]

I would wager that you'd be the first to admit you are in an exceptional circumstance with an 800 amp service, etc. I'm glad that you're intent on not applying your particular situation to the rest of us.

It sounds like you like camping in comfort. Those motorcoach's are nice.

P.S. I bet your motorcoach doesn't even use a fraction of the output of that 50 kw generator you're looking at.

Arghh, my smiley faces didn't show. Still, you're right on as to my opinion; gather all the info you can and then buy what you feel best suits your needs. And, sometimes those needs change. I used to think that using a tent when camping in the 'rough' areas of national parks was the way to go. Clearly I've changed my stripes a bit from those days.

But, you're right, what fits for me may not fit for you and what fits for you may not fit for the next guy etc. I think it boils down between weighing needs vs. wants along with realistic vs. unrealistic for each situation.

 

[Iplayfarmer]

Arghh, my smiley faces didn't show. Still, you're right on as to my opinion; gather all the info you can and then buy what you feel best suits your needs. And, sometimes those needs change. I used to think that using a tent when camping in the 'rough' areas of national parks was the way to go. Clearly I've changed my stripes a bit from those days.

But, you're right, what fits for me may not fit for you and what fits for you may not fit for the next guy etc. I think it boils down between weighing needs vs. wants along with realistic vs. unrealistic for each situation.

Amen to that. I also neglected to commend you in my previous post for being willing to consider the needs and comforts of others and being willing to share when needed.

A troubled time like a widespread power outage really brings out the best in some people and the worst in others.

 

[brandoro]

It would be usefull to know where in Canada the OP is experiencing the "Canadian" winter. Canada is a big country where winter can and does vary a lot, same as for our neighbours to the south. What works for me might not work for him.
What works for me is a 10kw PTO generator that I run inside my shop with a pipe to run the exhaust well outside through an exhaust port in the over head door. That way the heat from the tractor engine heats the shop and power is fed to the house panel via the cable that normally feeds the shop from the house. Even in the coldest part of winter, -30-40C, if I power the house for an hour I can easily disconnect and leave the house unpowered for three or more hours while I use the tractor for other things, cleanup of storm felled trees, snow removal etc. If I did have a dedicated generator rather than the PTO generator I would want to be able to use the heat from the engine to heat the house and/or domestic water. Otherwise, if you are generating 10kw of electricity you are wasting close to 10 kw of heat from the engine.

 

[Soundguy]

Because you have a small power plant available.. I'd probably look into getting a 10-12 kw pto gen.. and use it as emergency power as needed.. supplementing with the smaller genset for other needs.

Whatca need 100 / 200a during a power outage. ????

I'd just be looking at keeping cold stuff cold, and sleeping quaters warm enough to survive, plus perhaps a lamp if i needed to read.. or to run a radio.. perhaps pump up a well / water heater.... etc.. etc.

soundguy

I use to live in a house that had a hybrid fireplace to heat the place and I have a small 5.6 KW generator which I used for a couple of things during power failures. My current house is all electric and this generator is just way too small to power the heating. We don't have many power failures, but if we have one, not fun during Canadian winters.

I have a BX25, and I am wondering if anyone has ever seen or heard of some kind of generator system that would run off the tractor? Something on the market or maybe something someone concocted on their own. I was thinking something that could run off the PTO? Also, this being as an emergency backup it would be used rarely, but if there is anything of this sort possible, any thoughts if this would be bad for the tractor's engine or just a bad idea?

I would need minimum 100 KW but could really use up to 200 KW. Dedicated units of this size are cost prohibitive, they are as much as my tractor which I can't afford, especially because the use would be just for the odd occasion. But the dedicated generator units I have seen are usually run by a diesel engine about the size in my BX.

Any thoughts guys?

Thanks