PTO Generator?

[EE_Bota]

I enjoyed reading the comments. Here are mine:
Everyones situation is different, and mine is really easy. Since I am single with no children, if I am comfortable, there are no complaints.
I do not recommend any of these solutions to any specific person, rather, peruse them to see if any can help out in your own particular
situation.

Tools at my disposal:
A Mr.Heater two-eyed radiant heater which will run a good while on one eye using a grill sized propane tank.
A 700w invertor bought cheap in case I only want to run my laptop, or something small.
A 4000w invertor in case I only want to do something briefly, such as run the water pump.
Also, the 4000W invertor is handy for running something midsized for a LONG TIME such as running the freezer and the fridge (two separate units.)
It is important to know how to defeat a defrost cycle, else I have to use the generator.
The generator: I bought it from Northern Hydraulics for around $900 just this year. It is rated 7200W. It runs off PTO. I mounted it on a stout modified pallet (made as small as possible, so it is a half pallet),
and use a carry all to back up to it. I do not have a disconnect, and I doubt I ever will since they are relatively expensive.
Instead, I will run drop cords through a slightly open window (stuffed with a blocker such as old cloth) and use them to run my fridge and freezer, and if winter, run the blower for my fireplace insert, and my laptop, etc. My main heat is a heatpump, so I dont really bother with it at all.

A shower or a bath is usually pretty far from my mind when it is freezing and I have no power. So, it is no real chore to heat a bit of water on the wood stove and wash up a bit.
But sooner or later, a shower is needed, so I use my portable hot water heater, which will run off of propane (any size bottle) and four "D" batteries.
The batteries power the pump, and the propane heats the water.

Mr. Heater I bought a few years back
Mr. Heater Double Propane Heater With Piezo Ignitor 8,000-28,000 BTU, Model MH24TS | Heaters | Northern Tool + Equipment

Camping hot water heater
Walmart.com: Zodi Instant Water Heater and Hot Shower: Camping

My PTO generator
NorthStar PTO Generator 7200 Watt, 14 HP Required | PTO Generators | Northern Tool + Equipment

PTO shaft
- Harbor Freight Tools - Quality Tools at the Lowest Prices

Carry all that is a perfect match for the pto generator / BX size and shape
King Kutter Carry All, Model CA | Scoops | Northern Tool + Equipment

I have a 30 gallon plastic barrel to hold diesel. I expect to be able to get more if needed, but I keep the BX full in the winter anyway,
and a 5 gallon container as well, so 40 gallons on hand. I use the leftover diesel in the spring and summer, and stock up in the fall.

Important: I did not pay shipping on anything except the PTO shaft. Northern will ship the PTO to the store and you pick it up.
I bought the carryall NOT at Northern, but off the lot at Tractor supply.

Situation: Duke power, rarely out. But a severe ice storm (horrible) caused me to lose power a few years back 10 days, then 6 days later on in the same winter. No power losses over a couple of minutes since, so I really could not afford to spend too much.

 

[brandoro]

Since you are in Quebec you should have access to the type of PTO generator that I have, a Drummond, made (assembled) in Quebec with some part local manufacture and some not. I have had it for 5-6 years now so that may have changed. It works well. I agree that having more generator than engine is a safe thing for the generator. The tractor I had when I bought the generator was WOT at about 7800 watts, the next tractor would run anything I could connect to the generator and the tractor I have now is yawning with everything I can connect. If you get a bigger generator than you can run right now it is a good thing.
I used to work for GE Hydro in Lachine so knew several people who lived through the ice storm, some had no power for weeks.
On construction sites you will often see light plants with Kubota engines that run rated speed all the time and have 5-6-7000 hours and still run very well.

 

[Soundguy]

essentially, yes.. having a 40kw gen and a tractor only capable of 10 is not a problem.. mind you if you start drawing more than the tractor can handle the load will pull it down, thus probably effecting frequency untill it drops enough that you aren't making useable power.

A 10kw head is all that tractor will ever touch.. at most.. I'd get a 12.5kw head and call it good.

northern usually sells those for 1100$ or so.. I have one.. love it.



soundguy

Lots of good information and feedback. So if I am understanding this correctly, my BX with 23 HP and 18 HP at the PTO, should run maybe 10 KW max. But, from comments by Iplayfarmer, Soundguy and brin, I can get a larger genset and it would work OK? That is to say if I get a 15 or 20 KW genset, I would never overload the genset, and as far as the tractor goes, if the genny was under heavy load and asking for more juice, my tractor would give it what it can, and possibly stall when it can稚 anymore? Does this make sense and is this a sound plan?

Raw Dodge, thanks for your comments. This is my first tractor and have had it about 5 months now. I did a lot of research before buying it have confidence in its capabilities. What you said kind of gives me the added confidence that this is a well built tractor and doesn稚 need to be babied, it was meant to work hard.

I am guessing that running a generator, and under heavy or close to max load, the fuel consumption must go up compared to my usual usage. Today痴 tractor diesel engines with their low sulphur requirements, would they run ok on home heating oil? I know many that did this years ago, but do not know if today痴 diesel are more finicky?

 

[bucmeister]

Have not read all of the posts, but want to offer this solution for consideration. We were out of power for awhile due to both Hurricanes Katrina and Rita. At the time all I had available was the 4.5Kw gas unit that we bought after an ice storm back in '89. That little machine has served us well over the years with the only problem being the acquiring of gasoline when none of the stations had electricity to pump more gas into the 5 gallon cans. Earlier this year I bought a 6.5Kw Chinese made diesel unit that actually does very well and will burn about 7 gal per 24 hours under a bit more load than the older unit, which burned twice as much, since we can now run the water heater intermittently. Since my dad has undergone cancer treatment, heart valve transplant, and pacemaker surgery they decided they wanted an automatic standby and gave me their 13Kw Northstar PTO unit. The only time we will use it is if we go out during the summer and need A/C to sleep at night. Partly due to what others have said about cutting back to essentials during outages, which outside of A/C the 6.5Kw will handle just fine, and partly due to the unreasonable amount of fuel my JD5300 would consume over a week of running 24 hours per day. The small unit will go through 4 gal in 14 hours whereas the tractor will go through over a gallon per hour to keep us cool at night. As we found out in both of the hurricane outages not only does the fuel cost add up quick in 8 continuous days of running 24 hours, but so can the availability since we ended up only being allowed to buy 5 gallons at a time due to the shortages caused by the supply terminals in the Baton Rouge, LA area not having power to fill the tankers and that is the source refineries for the fuel in our area. It was a cascade of damage and systemic failures that really brought us face to face with these issues.

The bottom line to my tale is these hurricanes showed us that in wide spread outage situations fuel economy and conservation can quickly become the primary concern when faced with the possibility of no fuel.

 

[whistlepig]

I read a lot of TBN posts before I bought my portable generator. I was seriously considering a PTO generator. There are some tremendous advantages to a PTO generator. I just couldn't bring myself to dedicating the tractor to a generator. I only have one tractor. I envisioned ice storms and downed trees that would have to be cleared with the tractor and FEL. We have livestock and fences that may need mended. But because the tractor was dedicated to the PTO generator the house would have to go with out heat and electric while I used the tractor to clear the trees and mend the fences. That's why I went portable.

 

[windy acers]

EVERYONE NEEDS 2 OR MORE TRACTORS

 

[Duffster]

I'd not want to run my tractor at full load for hrs on end.

Why not?

 

[Soundguy]

I read a lot of TBN posts before I bought my portable generator. I was seriously considering a PTO generator. There are some tremendous advantages to a PTO generator. I just couldn't bring myself to dedicating the tractor to a generator. I only have one tractor. I envisioned ice storms and downed trees that would have to be cleared with the tractor and FEL. We have livestock and fences that may need mended. But because the tractor was dedicated to the PTO generator the house would have to go with out heat and electric while I used the tractor to clear the trees and mend the fences. That's why I went portable.

I'm sure the house wouldn't freeze up and blow away if you yanke dthe tractor away for a couple hours.

heck.. during extened outtages.. i ONLY ran the genny for a hour at a time to get the reffers cold and pump water up.. etc...

probably had it on 10% o fthe time.. and off 90.. and never had a problem.

no real need for 100% live power 24/7.. and if yuo do.. you need a dedicated auto start unit with auto xfer switch for seamless transfer if you can't stand to see a few seconds of no power..

soundguy

 

[Iplayfarmer]

I'm sure the house wouldn't freeze up and blow away if you yanke dthe tractor away for a couple hours.

heck.. during extened outtages.. i ONLY ran the genny for a hour at a time to get the reffers cold and pump water up.. etc...

probably had it on 10% o fthe time.. and off 90.. and never had a problem.

no real need for 100% live power 24/7.. and if yuo do.. you need a dedicated auto start unit with auto xfer switch for seamless transfer if you can't stand to see a few seconds of no power..

soundguy

I understand that your statements are based on sound principles, but you also have to admit that there are some very real differences between central Florida and central Canada. I agree that 100% coverage is likely unneccessary, but colder climates are going need quite a bit more than 10%.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I enjoyed reading the comments. Here are mine:
Everyones situation is different, and mine is really easy. Since I am single with no children, if I am comfortable, there are no complaints.
I do not recommend any of these solutions to any specific person, rather, peruse them to see if any can help out in your own particular
situation.

Tools at my disposal:
A Mr.Heater two-eyed radiant heater which will run a good while on one eye using a grill sized propane tank.
A 700w invertor bought cheap in case I only want to run my laptop, or something small.
A 4000w invertor in case I only want to do something briefly, such as run the water pump.
Also, the 4000W invertor is handy for running something midsized for a LONG TIME such as running the freezer and the fridge (two separate units.)
It is important to know how to defeat a defrost cycle, else I have to use the generator.
The generator: I bought it from Northern Hydraulics for around $900 just this year. It is rated 7200W. It runs off PTO. I mounted it on a stout modified pallet (made as small as possible, so it is a half pallet),
and use a carry all to back up to it. I do not have a disconnect, and I doubt I ever will since they are relatively expensive.
Instead, I will run drop cords through a slightly open window (stuffed with a blocker such as old cloth) and use them to run my fridge and freezer, and if winter, run the blower for my fireplace insert, and my laptop, etc. My main heat is a heatpump, so I dont really bother with it at all.

A shower or a bath is usually pretty far from my mind when it is freezing and I have no power. So, it is no real chore to heat a bit of water on the wood stove and wash up a bit.
But sooner or later, a shower is needed, so I use my portable hot water heater, which will run off of propane (any size bottle) and four "D" batteries.
The batteries power the pump, and the propane heats the water.

Mr. Heater I bought a few years back
Mr. Heater Double Propane Heater With Piezo Ignitor 8,000-28,000 BTU, Model MH24TS | Heaters | Northern Tool + Equipment

Camping hot water heater
Walmart.com: Zodi Instant Water Heater and Hot Shower: Camping

My PTO generator
NorthStar PTO Generator 7200 Watt, 14 HP Required | PTO Generators | Northern Tool + Equipment

PTO shaft
- Harbor Freight Tools - Quality Tools at the Lowest Prices

Carry all that is a perfect match for the pto generator / BX size and shape
King Kutter Carry All, Model CA | Scoops | Northern Tool + Equipment

I have a 30 gallon plastic barrel to hold diesel. I expect to be able to get more if needed, but I keep the BX full in the winter anyway,
and a 5 gallon container as well, so 40 gallons on hand. I use the leftover diesel in the spring and summer, and stock up in the fall.

Important: I did not pay shipping on anything except the PTO shaft. Northern will ship the PTO to the store and you pick it up.
I bought the carryall NOT at Northern, but off the lot at Tractor supply.

Situation: Duke power, rarely out. But a severe ice storm (horrible) caused me to lose power a few years back 10 days, then 6 days later on in the same winter. No power losses over a couple of minutes since, so I really could not afford to spend too much.

This seems so complicated. Just drop another $300 and get a 200 amp transfer switch like I have and posted and install it. Now hook up your pto gen and you are running the whole house. No running cords or monkeying around with inverters. Just my $.02

Chris

 

[Soundguy]

I understand that your statements are based on sound principles, but you also have to admit that there are some very real differences between central Florida and central Canada. I agree that 100% coverage is likely unneccessary, but colder climates are going need quite a bit more than 10%.

ok.. so mod the #'s a bit.. 50/50 is still reasonable.. heck.. 60/40.. 70/30.. it still gives you a couple hours a day to go push out a driveway or drag a tree off the driveway.. or split some wood.. or drag a tree in from the driveway to split some wood.. etc.. etc.

even during hurricane-fest 04/05 where florida got hit by 4-5 storms at a pop.. I never had 2 tractors going at a time.. just one.. running the genny.. then.. it was so easy to just unhooke the pto shaft and use that tractor to do cleanup, vs walking all the way out to the barn to grab another tractor for cleanup... etc.

soundguy

 

[jd2305cd]

Its a quick simple question for me, which can i do cheaper.. I can get a 7500 watt unit, with engine and electric start for 600 bucks, plus get the transfer switch for another 300..

The cheapest PTO generator i can find is 920, plus shipping.. And it ties up my tractor. This is for brand new for both.. If you can find a used one for a good price then go for it, but make more sense to me to get the portable generator.

Plus if your parents / freind / cabins power is out you can bring with you easy enough.

Just my two sense..

 

[dodge man]

I'll throw out another option, although not a very good one. I have an invertor that I can hook up to my car, truck, tractor battery. Its only 750watts, but its enough to power my daughters fish aquarimum and the blower on my fireplace. It will also power up the T.V. and VCR so we can watch movies. It won't power very much stuff, but it was cheap, less than $100.

 

[FlaDon]

ok.. so mod the #'s a bit.. 50/50 is still reasonable.. heck.. 60/40.. 70/30.. it still gives you a couple hours a day to go push out a driveway or drag a tree off the driveway.. or split some wood.. or drag a tree in from the driveway to split some wood.. etc.. etc.

even during hurricane-fest 04/05 where florida got hit by 4-5 storms at a pop.. I never had 2 tractors going at a time.. just one.. running the genny.. then.. it was so easy to just unhooke the pto shaft and use that tractor to do cleanup, vs walking all the way out to the barn to grab another tractor for cleanup... etc.

soundguy

Having been thru the hurricane fests here since 62, a generator is needed. Does it need to run 24/7? No. Does it have to run the entire house? No. Does it need to run the A/C all the time? No. Does it need to be able to run the water pump, tv, lights, bathroom exhaust fans, Microwave, water heater? Yes. But not all at the same time. When you run on generator power for 5 full weeks, you soon learn what you don't need so you can have the power for what you do need. Fuel was a problem after Andrew but not for long. And now even less as gas stations are required, as are food stores, to have backup generators. Fuel with a gas burning generator can run you 10 gallons for every 5 hours with a 10K unit.

 

[Soundguy]

yep.. when you are without power for weeks, as was in the last florida storms, and fuel was hard to find.. you didn't power up your whole house 24/7.. you only powered up 'must have' items hoping fuel lasted till you could find some.

soundguy

 

[Lyrch75]

Well my 1000RPM running a 540 head set didn't pull through. Thruck has plenty of power to spin the unit, but the IP is not set up to keep the RPM dead set that close to idle. We were getting anything from 52 to 73 hz hitting the test gauges.

Decided to move my big genset to other side of my house (that is going to be a project in itself) and put a bigger bulk tank beside it and go to my breaker box and put a green sticker beside all of the stuff I can turn off to conserve fuel and red stickers beside the ones I must leave on for the house to function. If we can keep the big heating elements from kicking in we are only burning about a gallon and a half an hour, once the motor has settled in, so I will just have to watch those in the case of a long term power outage.

Oh well, another idea that sounded good shot to he!!.

 

[TonkaToy]

More interesting comments and feedback. A couple of items

Soundguy, I saw in another thread your response about the internal workings of a UPS; you seem to know your stuff. So I am curious, I was reading the reviews on the 7.7 and the 13 KW (like yours) Northstar and some are very happy. But a few have serious issues, especially when running 240v, seems to have lots of stability issues. Has this been your experience? Second thing about the Northstar, I haven稚 done tons of research yet, but compared to the Tiger, which does have a 240 outlet for FULL power usage, the Northstar from what I see does not. Wouldn稚 getting full power out of this unit require more complex cable connections, especially if trying to wire the house, and anything running on 240v?

jd2305cd, you logic is sound, but be aware of something. A new $600 generator, not all generators are created equal. I bought one during the ice storm, it was a Coleman 5500 watts, but it could be Homelite, Champion, any brand. At this price level, the usually have a Briggs or Tecumseh standard engine, like on a lawnmower or snowblower. These are good for recreational use. You are building a cottage in the woods and there is no power to run a drill, saw or a coffee maker, this is their reason for being. You want a 都tandby generator? these won稚 cut it. The one I had, powering 80 to 90% full load for hours, lasted a day and a half. After that it was leaking oil all over and in the air filter. I was able to bring it back and get a refund. Then I went around too many repair shops and various tool rental places. The message was pretty clear and standard just about everywhere. These engines can稚 handle this kind of work. I was told repeatedly that the kind of load put on these engines, under the application people put on these units during a power outage, is very intense. Consider it to be as much or more than the hardest attachment on your tractor, like a mower or something like that. They all pretty much said the same thing, especially the tool rental places, you need an OHV engine, favorites are Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha, Robins, and so on. These will be commercial grade generators where the engine can handle 7 to 8 hours at WOT. I don稚 know a lot about the electrical/generator side of things, but have been told that when a MFR puts a premium engine in there, they will do similar with the generator side of things. So a decent generator probably won稚 go for $600. After returning my Coleman, I found a Wacker commercial unit, same wattage, $2500. All this to say, your tractor engine driving a PTO generator would probably serve you a heck of a lot better if you had a really long power outage, and probably be OK with whatever load you put on it. The $600 generator is ok if during a week of no electricity, all you want to do is make a cup of coffee every now and then. If you need to run a fridge , freezer, or any heavy load appliances periodically, I think you should reconsider.

 

[Soundguy]

I'm not sure what you mean about full power / 240.

My northstar has a 4 prong connection.. a standard 240 plug.. etc.

as for stability.. it ran my well pump and small hand tools at my farm for about a month before the power company decided to get me some service.. never missed a lick.. voltage always stayed in t he green section on the meter even during pump in / out cycles. ( most of that has to do with how good yer governor is )

soundguy

 

[jd2305cd]

TonkaToy- I agree, different needs for each application. Everyones situations different. I borrowed one last power outage Ran furnace blower and fridge with it. Then the ocassional tv, radio etc. Worked just fine for 3 day outage.

I can't see spending all this money just for incase situation, yeah its nice, but 3-4 days every 3-4 years. I can deal with just keeping my food/beer cold and my wife warm. Sure i would love to have a whole house automatic fail over, who wouldn't, but can't justify it..

Depends on your needs and situation. I agree, you get what you pay for, but my lil 2305 can do just about anything the bigger tractors can, just take me longer..

 

[TonkaToy]

Hey Soundguy, I am going based on the specs on the Northern Tool site.
NorthStar PTO Generator — 13,000 Watt, 24 HP Required | PTO Generators | Northern Tool + Equipment
Maybe their specs might have an error, but they list four 20 amp 120v, one 30 amp 120v and one 50 amp 120v, no 240 receptacle. Is this how your unit is? Does this look like the exact same as yours, or is it a slightly newer model with slight variations?

If this is the case, to pull the full 12,000 watts, you would have to connect a combination of 3 or 4 receptacles to get the full wattage, while also knowing how they are connected internally to the generator, so that a balance can be maintained and pull 6000 watts from each pole. If there is a 240v 50 amp receptacle, then it would be all good. 50 amps x 240 volts gives 12000 watts and supplying a panel would be easier.

jd2305cd, I agree about your lil 2305. I think commercial engines like the Honda are good, but I think the engine on your 2305 hooked up to a PTO gen would blow these gasoline gens away , just my thoughts