Pucker factor to the 10th degree !

[dcyrilc]

A little late to this thread, shows three pages already, but.....

I agree with dropping the bucket in a situation like this but why pick up the mower?

I would assume it's to get the full weight of the mower on the rear axle.

 

[missourithunder]

two_bit_score,
dcyrilc is correct (I love your last name by the way, the first three letters spells my last name, that is so cool). I didn't believe it at first until others mentioned it and then I played around a little tonight expermenting. It makes sense.

MT

 

[two_bit_score]

I would assume it's to get the full weight of the mower on the rear axle.

dcyrilc and MT, I see.


But...I gotta confess that I'd been hard pressed to think about dropping the mower.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

While the math is correct that lowering the FEL to lift the front wheels and lifting the mower would have been the correct thing to do to add traction to the rear wheel I think all are in agreement on that but would that have made things better at that point.

The issue is when events start there is only time to react and not many mentally practice recovering from these types of accidents. The physics can get complex.

With the rear wheels siding and the front ones off the ground to transfer weight to the rear wheels who knows how it would have slid. We are taught to keep the nose pointed down by steering.

Monday morning quarterbacks can never be proven correct or incorrect because the game is past tense.

Thanks for all sharing those of us with steep slick hills can practice using all of the advice. NOT

I was mowing on a 45 degree dewy slope at 10 PM and rolled me and the push mower down into the parking lot. The mower was OK but I ripped the screws of my metal hip socket from my butt bone. That was nearly a $30K repair job and no one locally would touch the job so I had to got to Nashville to the Southern Joint Clinic.

It does not require a tractor to get hurt mowing.

 

[dcyrilc]

two_bit_score,
dcyrilc is correct (I love your last name by the way, the first three letters spells my last name, that is so cool). I didn't believe it at first until others mentioned it and then I played around a little tonight expermenting. It makes sense.

MT

It's not as effective with a standard flat blade on the bucket, but that's one wicked tooth bar you've got on yours!:thumbsup:

 

[missourithunder]

Gale Hawkins,
You sir are a scholar and a gentleman. Thank you for keeping this in perspective.

dcyrilc,
Thanks fot the compliment. That tooth bar is already paying dividinds.

MT

 

[dcyrilc]

dcyrilc and MT, I see.


But...I gotta confess that I'd been hard pressed to think about dropping the mower.

My first? reaction is typically the bucket (after brakes of course). Part of that comes from running backhoes for many years. The bucket has a lot more uses than just carrying things. I've never had a tooth bar on the front bucket, but I've experianced the difference on the rear bucket from having teeth vs a flat plate.

MT
How far did you go with the bucket digging in? Did you get far enough to brake the rear tires loose instead of moving any further? Down angle on the front bucket will have a great impact also. You want to be steep enough that the bucket is grabbing agressively, but not so far that your overstressing the equipment. Probably somewhere between 10 and 30 degrees. If you get too steep, the teeth will begin dragging rather than digging in and cutting. Too shallow will slide along the ground.

 

[missourithunder]

dcyrilc,
No no no. I did not drop the loader to help me stop. I wished I would have thought of that during my 5 second ride from he$$. All I did was hold on for the ride and thankfully came to a stop before going over the cliff.

Dropping the bucket pronto or raising the RFM would have helped me regain control of the situation but bp fick said it best that you don't have time to think about "which levers to pull" in a crisis. You have to think these things out before they happen. I learned a very valuable lesson trust me.

MT

 

[dcyrilc]

dcyrilc,
No no no. I did not drop the loader to help me stop. I wished I would have thought of that during my 5 second ride from he$$. All I did was hold on for the ride and thankfully came to a stop before going over the cliff.

Dropping the bucket pronto or raising the RFM would have helped me regain control of the situation but bp fick said it best that you don't have time to think about "which levers to pull" in a crisis. You have to think these things out before they happen. I learned a very valuable lesson trust me.

MT

Sorry, I thought you said that you played with the bucket on flat ground afterward to see how that would work.

"dcyrilc is correct (I love your last name by the way, the first three letters spells my last name, that is so cool). I didn't believe it at first until others mentioned it and then I played around a little tonight expermenting. It makes sense."

 

[missourithunder]

dcyrilc,
Sorry I misunderstood you. During the incident, I did not touch the FEL joystick. Tonight I went down the same slope, in the same direction, in a much more controlled enviorment (top soil dry and at a much slower speed) and played with the FEL and got reassurannce that dropping teh bucket in an emergency will stop you faster than anything else. Hope this helps.

MT

 

[dcyrilc]

dcyrilc,
Sorry I misunderstood you. During the incident, I did not touch the FEL joystick. Tonight I went down the same slope, in the same direction, in a much more controlled enviorment (top soil dry and at a much slower speed) and played with the FEL and got reassurannce that dropping teh bucket in an emergency will stop you faster than anything else. Hope this helps.

MT

Got it.:thumbsup:

 

[jwstewar]

I'm going to go back to the FEL removing the weight from the rear tires. Every rear finish mower I've ever seen rides on its own tires and there is no weight on the 3 pt hitch the arms are free. Is that not how your rear finish mower is run? If it is run like I'm familiar with, it is not providing any rear weight to the tractor so the FEL is taking weight off the back tires. Maybe I'm confused here, but that sure seems like how it would be to me.

Of course, I always take my FEL off when mowing, too much damage to be done with it sticking way out in front - especially with a rear mower.

 

[rekees4300]

Doesn't 357 lbs difference over the rear axel still give me the superior advantage ?

MT !

Well Mr. missourithunder, for whatever reason, you seem to be offended by my advice to remove the FEL before mowing. Perhaps I was harsh in the way I phrase it and that bruised your ego? I assume you will continue to mow with it on so good luck with that. As for me, slopes + FEL = RIP so I will not be mowing with a FEL mounted. Different strokes for different folks... over and out

 

[missourithunder]

No bruised ego here but thanks for seeing it my way. By the way, you can't be over and out at the same time (radio transmissions 101). You're either responding to a transmission (over) or you're ending a transmission (out).

MT

 

[ChuckinNH]

JoeL4330 & sweettractors,
Thank you for trying to explain this to Mr. rekees4300 but he obviously still doesn't get it so I'll dummy-proof it for him in his own language.

rekees4300,
I made a stupid mistake. I tried mowing down hill on a slick infested surface without the assistance of low range and 4WD. The FEL's weight had absolutely nothing to do with the sliding motion because the counter weight to the loader exceeded the loader's weight by 357 lbs. You seem to be mathmeticly inclined so take a look at my calculations and correct me if I'm wrong;

FEL weight - 617 lbs (straight from my owners manuel)


RFM weight - 494 lbs (straight from my other owners manuel)
Loaded rear tires - 2x 85 lbs = 170 lbs (straight from the MFA receipt)
Custom canopy - 70 lbs (I paid by the pound and I watched him weigh it)
My fat ***** - 244 lbs (you're gonna have to trust me on this one)
Total counter wt - 974 lbs

So, 974 - 617 = 357 lbs in total counter weight difference to the FEL

So tell me again you silly mathamatishin, how did the weight/distribution of the FEL contribute to my near fatal accident (focus on the message here not the grammer) ?

MT

Glad you are OK MT! Actually the ground was supporting the rfm, so it wasn't providing any counterweight at all perhaps. The 3pt was probably not at the bottom of it's possible travel, and the lever was probably all the way down so the tractor could lift a bit before the weight of the rfm came into play. There would be some resistance, but not the full weight of the mower. The loader, on the other hand would exert it's maximum leverage even just a few inches off the ground until it actually touched the ground. I've been there with an old 2wd tractor more than once so I can understand just how quickly those things can happen!

 

[TripleR]

While the math is correct that lowering the FEL to lift the front wheels and lifting the mower would have been the correct thing to do to add traction to the rear wheel I think all are in agreement on that but would that have made things better at that point.

The issue is when events start there is only time to react and not many mentally practice recovering from these types of accidents. The physics can get complex.

With the rear wheels siding and the front ones off the ground to transfer weight to the rear wheels who knows how it would have slid. We are taught to keep the nose pointed down by steering.

Monday morning quarterbacks can never be proven correct or incorrect because the game is past tense.

Thanks for all sharing those of us with steep slick hills can practice using all of the advice. NOT

I was mowing on a 45 degree dewy slope at 10 PM and rolled me and the push mower down into the parking lot. The mower was OK but I ripped the screws of my metal hip socket from my butt bone. That was nearly a $30K repair job and no one locally would touch the job so I had to got to Nashville to the Southern Joint Clinic.

It does not require a tractor to get hurt mowing.

One of the best so far. "Woulda/Coulda/Shoulda" doesn't count for too much after the fact and MissouriThunder pretty much had it figured out even without our "expert" advice.

The best time to take action is always "before" rather than "during"; prevention rather than reaction. What comes automatically to someone who spends LOTS of time operating equipment often comes too late to someone who operates occasionally for a few hours. I use to drive a tractor just about every day for ten or twelve hours and everything I did was pretty much automatic and correct. I now operate occasionally and it will be on one of four different tractors of three different brands and while I "know" what to do in an emergency, I may not be able to do it in time; kind of like Ron White's line, "I had the right to remain silent just not the ability".

Lessons I have learned are:

1. If you are doing something to where you have your hand poised over the joystick or 3-point "just in case" ask yourself, "Do I really want/need to do this"? If so then proceed with caution.

2. When operating tractors, there are really fewer "always/never" than many think.

3. Don't think you know so much that you are comfortable telling someone else they don't know what they are doing or what is best for them, their tractor and their property. Most people appreciate advice, but dislike being lectured or judged.

4. No matter how careful you are or how good you become, things can still happen so never become complacent on any equipment.

Now if I would just always follow my own advice.

 

[dodge man]

I have taken a downhill ride in my BX with a bucket load of dirt while in 2 wheel drive, it was no fun, and by pure luck I didn't hit a tree. In the heat of the moment, I didn't think to drop my bucket either.

I have to agree with Rekees4300, take the FEL off when mowing. It puts a lot of weight out front where you don't want it. I think it also make the tractor top heavy. If you take the FEL off, it will feel like a sports car. I've timed my FEL removal, its about 3 minutes, 5 if it doesn't go perfect.

 

[missourithunder]

TripleR wrote - "3. Don't think you know so much that you are comfortable telling someone else they don't know what they are doing or what is best for them, their tractor and their property. Most people appreciate advice, but dislike being lectured or judged."

You couldn't have said it any better.

MT

 

[JDGreenGrass]

dcyrilc,
Sorry I misunderstood you. During the incident, I did not touch the FEL joystick. Tonight I went down the same slope, in the same direction, in a much more controlled enviorment (top soil dry and at a much slower speed) and played with the FEL and got reassurannce that dropping teh bucket in an emergency will stop you faster than anything else. Hope this helps.

MT

Geez, that's kinda like "getting back on the ladder." I'm sure it took some guts to ride that slope for the first time after the slide.??

Glad you're here in good shape to share your experience.

 

[missourithunder]

JDGreenGrass,
As many have previously said including myself, low range and in 4WD makes all the difference in the world.

MT