Quickie loader, very slow. WHY?

   / Quickie loader, very slow. WHY? #51  
@oldnslo this tractor does not have power beyond. Post #27 shows hose 3 goes from the control valve to the rockshaft. I can still place the flow meter in line here and test if helpful.
The line from control valve to rock shaft is the pressure supply to the rock shaft or commonly called power beyond from control valve. This is required for systems with fixed displacement type gear pumps. All of the valves or circuit functions must be in series for the function to operate.

Does the above explanation make sense?
 
   / Quickie loader, very slow. WHY? #52  
Yes, the pictures help a lot. We now know that your loader has a typical FEL control valve with what looks to be a power beyond port taking flow to the 3pt. Yours not having the rear remotes does simplify things.

To answer your questions best as I can.....That's clever to listen to the return that way and I'm not surprised you would hear the returning fluid when listening through the full cap. My guess is what you hear seems normal, especially since the return noise should stop when you work the loader and it does. The rest of the noise?? The bubbling?? Well, I am not surprised that there is some suction side air leak in 30 year old hoses, but my guess from the other things you've saidis that any suction leak is not the main cause of the loader being so slow.
Yes, lots of guesses here.

On the curl and raise not working simultaneously - that one is easy. Separating the functions is common when a manufacturer specifies an inexpensive loader control valve. Coupling the functions requires a more complex casting and additional machine work on the spools. So separate functions like you have ust means Quickie Loaders used a generic control valve instead of a more expensive one made to match your tractor. flow You can replace that valve with a better one that will bolt right up someday if you want. A better one will allow feathering both motions at once, and the best valves may also have some degree of internal fluid regeneration - which really does speeds up a loader.
All in all, some small part of the slowness is probably due to that control valve, but the valve shouldn't be slowing motion as much as yours does.

The photos are great! Now we can make some educated guesses, but because yours has power steering we probably still need the hydraulic schematic in the workshop manual for the Kubota M5400, do you have that manual? I can't seem to find one free online. The place I found the operator's manual - attached to post #22 - doesn't have a workshop manual.
However, there is an active market in old manuals on Ebay. Take a look there. The best are the factory workshop manuals - usually in printed form.

Any info we can get from Quickie Loaders about the model 310 loader and Kubota hookup would help too.

1st Photo:
Line 1 is the "P" or pressure line coming either from the hydraulic pump...OR from one side of a priority valve that separates the main hydraulic pump flow into a power steering flow that has priority and then the remaining flow goes to everything else.
Line 2 is the return to the "T" sump or Tank.
Line 3 is the power beyond that goes back to the 3pt. If we could see the side of the valve casting there should be a raised "PB" there. You should trace all these lines to confirm.

NOTE: IF LINES 1 & 3 ARE REVERSED into the Control valve, that could cause the loader to be slow. So be sure to trace those lines !

2nd Photo. Not sure what view this is. What are we looking at?

3rd Photo. From underneath? #2 should be going to the tank sump, but is it? I see some splits in that old hose where it bends, but if it is return to tank, those don't matter.
Is the steel line the suction line from sump tank to your filter?
What is the unnumbered hose?

Now we are getting somewhere.
rScotty
I have two of those loaders with THAT valve, both of them will do two functions at once!

The reason his loader is running slow is because he has it on a tractor that doesn't have a lot of hydraulic flow.

SR
 
   / Quickie loader, very slow. WHY? #53  
Verified 7 GPM should move that loader faster than estimated 30 seconds to raise.
 
   / Quickie loader, very slow. WHY? #54  
Verified 7 GPM should move that loader faster than estimated 30 seconds to raise.
What post number did the OP say it took 30 seconds for the loader arms to raise?

I can't find it.

SR
 
   / Quickie loader, very slow. WHY? #55  
What post number did the OP say it took 30 seconds for the loader arms to raise?

I can't find it.

SR
My bad, found post stating 10 seconds from full curl to full dump which is very slow with 7 GPM unless they are some good sized cylinders.

A 3 bore cylinder will extend at approximately 300 inches per minute with 7 GPM input flow.

Correction it should be approximately 230 inches per minute NOT 300 shown above.
 
Last edited:
   / Quickie loader, very slow. WHY? #56  
I have one ALO on a tractor that probably puts out the same at the remotes as the OP's tractor, and 10 seconds isn't far off.

My second tractor with an ALO had 15.9 at the remotes, and it has pretty good loader speed.

ALO loaders are pretty close to an industrial loader, and if you are used to the dinky loaders on compacts, they probably seem pretty slow, but the ALO will still be working when the little loader is in the junk yard.

And yes, I have those too,

SR
 
   / Quickie loader, very slow. WHY? #57  
Sawyer
I went back through the posts and found the manual for the loader

It shows lift cylinders being 70mm bore with 40mm rod but don’t show stroke

Dump cylinder is 65 mm bore with 40 mm rod

70 mm =2.756 in
65 mm =2.559 in
40 mm =1.575 in

So using formula
IPM = GPM x 231 divided by cylinder area

2.75 in bore = 5.94 square in area

7 x 231 =1,617 divided by 5.94 = 272 inches per minute for one cylinder or 4.5” per second

Estimate 2.25” per second with 2 cylinders or 22.5” in ten seconds

With this information Jahmes can now do a couple of time vs cylinder travel distance measurements and determine if everything is good or is there a problem that needs further investigation.

Only took 6 pages of posts to get to this point 😁
 
Last edited:
   / Quickie loader, very slow. WHY?
  • Thread Starter
#58  
@oldnslo that's some fancy maths! Based on your calcs, I think (unfortunately?) my loader is functioning properly.

Lift cylinder: 18.5" travel
Dump cylinder: 19.5" travel

@1750RPM

Raise: 9.2 seconds
Lower: 4.3
Curl up: 8.0
Curl down: 5.3

I don't usually run it at 1750RPM, so perhaps I need to throttle up more while using the FEL. It's still virtually impossible to use 2 functions at once (raise & curl, for example). I supposed I'm just used to the Kubota loader on my M5640 which I swear is 2x as fast.
 
   / Quickie loader, very slow. WHY? #59  
Jahmes,
Thanks for posting the actual travel distance vs time so that we now have closure on this concern.

Your Kubota might have a different style valve that directs the return oil from lift - lower to the curl - dump circuit. A quick way to test for that is operate a function like raise and then also attempt to lift the 3 point. If 3 point lifts you have a different valve style or a different pump style.
 
   / Quickie loader, very slow. WHY?
  • Thread Starter
#60  
@oldnslo My 3 point will not raise when the bucket is raising or curling up. Given the above conversation (and thanks everyone for the education!), what are feasible options to increase the performance of the FEL? Do they make a higher output hydraulic pump? Put smaller cylinders in current FEL? Ditch this FEL and get another setup? Get a different tractor? Buy a new truck and trailer to haul my new tractor? "Honey, the guys at TBN told me I NEEDED to do it"!
 

Tractor & Equipment Auctions

Towable Message Board (A44571)
Towable Message...
1989 Komatsu WA500 Wheel Loader (A42203)
1989 Komatsu WA500...
AGT MX15RX Mini Excavator (A44501)
AGT MX15RX Mini...
2016 Ford F-150 XL (A44501)
2016 Ford F-150 XL...
YANMAR  VIO17 MINI EXCAVATOR (A45333)
YANMAR VIO17 MINI...
Pallet of Vehicle Parts (A42745)
Pallet of Vehicle...
 
Top