R4's are USELESS!

[dynasim]

It seems like a common thread through these problems is the excess weight on the tph. If you have front wheel assist, the rear weight is far less important for traction(not say balance, but traction) purposes, and putting that much weight way back is probably getting the tractor out of balance. On inclines, you are probably over the hump of diminishing returns, and actually hindering traction(the extra weight is hindering movement more than providing extra traction). The bar loading, in part, comes from compression of the mud, which is worsened by the excess weight.

Just my thoughts, as I have not had this problem. (I don't even have filled tires). My TC45 essentially floats over the surface. I have to put it in full time fwd when I do FEL work with heavy dirt, though, as the back end loses power.

Chris

 

[Deadman]

Ok, now I'm baffled here.........I just went back and looked at my measurements and I measured that mine has 26 1/4 inside of the 3pt arms when they're raised, and yours shows 27 1/2........YET yours look like they have more clearance than mine do. How the heck can my arms be narrower, yet I have less tire/arm clearance?

I wonder if they changed tire sizes or something?
Mines a 2007 model........

Rear tire sizes are 14-17.5

I'm baffled, because your pics clearly show that you have more clearance than mine, but mine measure out to be set narrower.

Is there another way to adjust these 3 pt arms or something I'm missing?

If I don't have my ballast box 100% centered, I can hear the tires "squeaking" as they are rubbing on the 3 pt arms lightely.

 

[mars1952]

Deadman, I installed a "cold shut" in my new chains and put them on the tractor, decided to install a second one in each side to tighten them even more.

Hi: It is a great idea to make sure that you chains fit tightly but you still need chain tighteners:
Chain Tightener
Marshall

 

[MossRoad]

Ok, now I'm baffled here.........I just went back and looked at my measurements and I measured that mine has 26 1/4 inside of the 3pt arms when they're raised, and yours shows 27 1/2........YET yours look like they have more clearance than mine do. How the heck can my arms be narrower, yet I have less tire/arm clearance?

I wonder if they changed tire sizes or something?
Mines a 2007 model........

Rear tire sizes are 14-17.5

I'm baffled, because your pics clearly show that you have more clearance than mine, but mine measure out to be set narrower.

Is there another way to adjust these 3 pt arms or something I'm missing?

If I don't have my ballast box 100% centered, I can hear the tires "squeaking" as they are rubbing on the 3 pt arms lightely.

Are your rims inside out?

 

[mars1952]

I have to put it in full time fwd when I do FEL work with heavy dirt, though, as the back end loses power.

Chris

Hi Chris: If your rear wheels are slipping more than 15% when you use your FEL that means that you have almost all the weight transfered to the front axle. Look at your users manual and see how much weight your front axle can take. I am sure that it wasn't meant for that much weight. Also almost all your stability comes from the rear axle. Your front axle can pivot and allow the tractor to roll over when your tractor is balanced on the front axle. To transfer weight from your front axle to your rear wheels you must put weight behind the rear wheels. Loading the tires or adding weight to the rear tires only adds weight to the rear tires it does not transfer weight off the front. Think of a teter-toter. If you put weight on the pivot nothing is changed on the seats. If you put equal weight on the seats the teter-toter will balance. In this case the rear axle is the pivot point but we want about 45-50% of the weight to remain on the front axle.
John Deere Ballast Handout Scan I hope this scan is readable.
Marshall

 

[ding2520]

Deadman,
Same tire size (14-17.5) as my 06 model. I measured the offset on my rims on Saturday. I laid a straight edge across the tire and measured 7 1/4" to the surface that the bolts that hold the wheel to the tractor bottom out on. Only other thing is maybe they changed the shape of the arms.

 

[mars1952]

Deadman:
If your R4 rims are turned to the widest setting the valve stem will on the inside of the wheel. Just move the tires from the right side to the left and vise-versa to change the width. If you just flip them over and leave them on the same side the bar tread will go the wrong way and the tread will not self clean.
Marshall

 

[Deadman]

Ok great info guys, I'll go look at the tractor some more tomorrow and post back. I was up there looking today, and Its so hard to tell if there would be a width gain if we reversed the wheels. It almost looks like the're centered on there. I might just swap sides on them tomorrow and see if it gains or loses. Looks like I might gain 1/4 inch or a little more. that'd be almost enough.

 

[Highsmith]

Based on the things I have read on this thread, I will really have to think hard on which tire to pick. The land is sandy, red clay and mostly flat. I assumed ag tires would be an automatic choice for me until I read R4s were better for thorns. The land is covered with mesquites. Their thorns are very long and sharp. So then I figured R4s would be the automatic choice. Then I read about the issues people have with R4s not digging in.

My hope is with a utility tractor in the 50-70 HP range, filled R4s would have sufficient bite.

Anybody here using a tractor in a mesquite infested environment? What tires are you using and how are they holding up to the thorns?

 

[purpony]

i absolutely love my R4s on my 2320. I use it in mud, plow snow all winter and mow my lawn on them. Never once have i had a traction issue or ripped up grass due to sharp turns, to me, i am extrmemly glad i went with them.

 

[Mike058]

Whew, what a thread. Here's what I learned today. When shopping for a tractor, if JD says a certain tire type isn't available, you aren't going to be able to get it later. So be careful what you buy. Timber's piece on using the loader to shift weight from the front to the rear was terrific. Gotta remember that. R1's have more traction, but aren't as tough as R4's. I thought I was going to need R1's but even though I'll be working on a slope, it'll be mostly covered in bushes, twigs, grass and saplings which sounds like a job for R4's, but riding over it repeatedly may make it mushy, muddy and slippery, so I'm back to R1's. My head's getting too full. Time to think about something else.

 

[tessiers]

I Got R4's on my new john deere and I too do not like them. My Last Tractor Had Forestry Tires on it. They Were similar to R1 except the Bars were closer together. Those Tires offered exceptional puncture resistance in the woods as well as excellent traction. My One Complaint was that they tore the lawn up just driving across it. My Next Tires will be back to R1's

 

[Lasgambler]

Hello, I have R1's and R4's with new wheels will be my next big purchase for my FX42d. Living in the southwest desert we have what is called, "desert pavement" ground that has never been disturbed. Because of lack of rain,(sometimes we will go a year w/o rain) tracks stay there forever. I use my tractor in new home construction on large acreage parcels. Loaded R4's will give me good traction and keep me out of trouble from "tearing up the desert pavement". Just my 2 cents.

 

[jcmseven]

At this late point I am not sure if I have posted on this thread before or not. If so please forgive me, if not, here goes. I happened to have been probably one of the few people who has had both R4's and R1's on the same tractor, a JD 3720. My two cents: The R1 tires get better overall traction. The difference is not huge but certainly notable. The R1's are very narrow on the JD machine. The sidewalls on mine notably flexed when the bucket was full of heavy rock or mulch, a problem not seen with the R4's. The R1's do not hold as much ballast, only 24 gallons per tire v. 35 with the R4's. This equates to a 80-120 pound difference depending on ballast type between the two. In short, you will have to add wheel weights if using heavy front end implements with a JD 3000 series or smaller tractor. The R1's ride surprisingly smoothly on pavement, in my opinion MORE smoothly than R4 tires, perhaps due to their larger circumference. The other little nice thing is with the additional clearance the three point hitch can be fully lifted without impacting the ROPS if you have it folded for some reason, but DON'T fold it!! The R1's are not nearly as stable as the R4's at the conventional wheel postion, shallow dish wheel out and bracketed on the outside (ie the second position). I nearly rolled my tractor twice due to a front wheel burying in mud on a steep hill and the back end kicking over. Perhaps this would be made better if one has the wheels set maximally wide, but that to me looks ridiculous and inhibits getting into tighter places. But, it is safer. Bear in mind most R1 tires are quite a bit taller than their R4 counterparts and will make most tractors ride higher and thusly be a bit less stable. For all these reasons I went back with the R4's but I really enjoyed the additional box blade pull and drawbar pull given by the R1's. For me though, R4's were the better choice and I have been happy with them.

John M

 

[johnk]

I had to get r1's on mine due to the slope and wet conditions. I have a 3130 but put wheels and tires on from the dealer from a 3830 when I purchased new. I feel they actually give me the floatation on lawns etc in 2 wd and really have the bite in Mud and on slopes in 4WD. Everyone has different needs and this works for me.

 

[SPYDERLK]

I had to get r1's on mine due to the slope and wet conditions. I have a 3130 but put wheels and tires on from the dealer from a 3830 when I purchased new. I feel they actually give me the floatation on lawns etc in 2 wd and really have the bite in Mud and on slopes in 4WD. Everyone has different needs and this works for me.

Yeah, R1s for me too. It would be nice to be able to always havethe right tire for the job, but for traction and wide ranging competence Ill put up with the marks they make until they develop a tire with morphing tread.

I guess youve lowered the tire pressure since that pic was taken.
larry

 

[johnk]

Never touched the tire pressure. I'm usually on slopes and in mud. They work great..

 

[Typhoon]

I love my R4s! I have never had any traction issues (although I do have 4wd).. I have logged in the woods, in hilly and muddy conditions, plowed driveways in the winter, etc etc. And yet I can mow my yard with my finish mower and not tear up the grass. I also like the fact that they are nearly impossible to puncture. But to each their own. I think if traction were your highest priority, R1s would seem to be the best choice. I think if you have a 4wd machine, you can more easily get away with R4's.

 

[SFish]

When I was in West Virginia I ran R1s because of the soft ground in the summer and snow in the winter. Now, in the northern California coastal range forest I have R4s. I made this decision because:

More water balast (don't need antifreeze) and lower stance improves stability on my very steep ground.

The ground is so hard in the summer that contact patch area is more important than big lugs.

In the winter, when it rains, only the surface gets slippery, but below the ground is still too hard for lugs to penetrate.

R4s are much more puncture proof in the woods.

The dealer agreed and I am happy with my decision. Steve

 

[DocD]

I have read this forum and found it to be very informational. Mostly the discussion has been around the difference between the R4 and R1. I am thinking about getting the 3720 cab for use with the new lot that I just purchased. I will, in the beginning, be using the tractor for FEL landscaping property preparation work. After my shed and house is built, then the tractor will mostly be used for mowing around 6-7 acres of irrigated lawn and snowblowing with a 3pth snowblower and FEL. Today at the dealership I had one salesman telling me that I should order it with the R3 (turf) tires so that I wouldn't cause marks in my lawn. The other salesman told me to order it with the R4 tires so that I wouldn't be dissapointed in the FEL work capabilities when I am doing my landscaping and snow removal. I will now ask you (more experienced) to help me with this delemma. The big question is....Would the R4 tires mark the irrigated lawn and would the R3 tires make the loader/dirtwork mostly useless????

Thanks,
DW