Radon testing

[Anonymous Poster]

This post is repeated at CountrybyNet. Got into a discussion with my next door neighbor concerning the selling of his home. The buyers requested that a radon test be done. Are there any secrets to help pass the test. I heard that you don't want to test for radon when rain is forecasted as the atmospheric pressure can affect the results. Also you should caulk around the sump pump pit, sealing any holes, in addition to caulking the cracks where the concrete floor meets the basement walls. Radon can filter into the basement from these cracks. Any other suggestions.

 

[DaveNH]

Radon is not a problem outdoors because it is quickly diluted to low levels by outdoor air. So setting up a fan that transfers outside air with inside air
will lower the reading.

I personally think it's bunk! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[Anonymous Poster]

I personally think it's bunk! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Absolutely, you got that right!

 

[Steven]

The weather is getting nice leave the basement windows open so the gas escapes if there even is any. Boy how did people ever live years ago with all these problems they talk about now. someones making big bucks off of a lot of paranoid people. what will they come up with next? I should start thinking about something and see if i can get in the money making band wagon. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[rlk]

Stanley, the guidelines for the radon tests I'm familar with are:

1. Check expected weather for the time period during which you plan to test. If severe weather and/or high winds are predicted, delay starting the test until milder weather is expected.

2. Close ALL windows and exterior doors 12 hours before the start of the test and keep them closed for the entire test period. Opening and closing of exterior doors must be restricted to normal entry and exit. Do not use any internal-external air exchange systems (e.g., window fans, whole building attic fans, window air conditioning units with the outside air damper open, etc) for 12 hours before, and during, the test period. Heating or central air conditioning systems must be operational and on their normal settings (Auto mode, between 64 and 78 degrees): fireplaces or fireplace inserts can be operated only if they are the principal means of heating the building. No fans may be operating in the test room/area during the entire test period.

Canisters must be at least 20 to 30 inches above the floor. Canisters should be located away from all windows, doors, air ducts, air returns, stairwells and fireplaces. Fireplace flues must be closed unless the fireplace is needed to heat the building during the test. Place canisters at least one foot away from an interior wall or at least three feet away from an exterior wall.

Canisters should be left undisturbed for at least 3 and no more than 6 days. At the end of the test, reseal the canisters by firmly pressing the silver foil back over the hole in the lid of the canisters. Canisters must be received at the lab within 8 days after the completion of the test.

Canisters should be placed in the lowest-level liveable or occupiable space except: no kitchens, bathrooms, closets, laundry rooms, fireplace mantels, hallways, stairwells, storage rooms, utility rooms, attics, entrance foyers, elevators, mechanical rooms, equipment rooms, rooms with exposed dirt, and no crawlspaces.

The person placing the canisters must state that all the above guidelines have been met, otherwise the test is considered invalid.

The guidelines you received are good ones. I would add to seal around any projections coming through the exterior walls or through the floor (water pipes, sewer pipes, drain pipes, etc). If the radon test comes back above the EPA guideline of greater than 4.0 pCi/l (picoCuries of radon per liter of air) you will be advised to do these things then take another test. If the 2nd test comes in above the EPA guidelines, more extensive corrections will be necessary.

These guidelines are for using 2 activated charcoal canisters for the test. There are other ways to test for radon, but I'm not familar with them.

This link will show you a picture of the USA, along with which areas have more potential for radon problems: http://usinspect.com/Radon/mapgeo.asp
I tried to attach this but it was too large.

You can get more information from here: Http://usinspect.com/Radon/radon.asp
as well as a bunch of other places.

Bob

 

[Anonymous Poster]

RLK, thank you for your post. Very informative.

 

[PhilNH5]

Stanley,
I was/am the Radiation Safety Officer for my company. Radon is one of the isotopes we learned about in training although we don't worry about it at work. When I sold my place in Rising Sun, MD radon tests were not required. And Rising Sun is close enough to the "Reading (PA) Belt" to be a concern. I am not sure about Fallston.

Here in NH I did not request a radon test as part of the home inspection. It is to easy to defeat. The test consists of charcoal impregnated pads in a small container. You remove the lid and set these around the house for a set period of days. The charcoal then absorbs the radon and the canisters are sent to a lab for analysis.

Call me a skeptic but since I was not yet in possession of the house I had no control over the tests. Easiest way to defeat it would to be to put the canisters outside while claiming they were in the basement all along. Or simply leave the basement windows open. Fresh air exchange to dilute any radon. In fact that is one of the remediation strategies.

A prior poster question why this wasn't a problem in years past. House were a lot less energy effecient and a lot less airtight. So if radon was present it was diluted and/or exchanged with fresh outside air. Now we button up our houses with insulation and weather stripping and even use outside air for combustion in our furnances so no freah air is drawn in.

Anyway, 4 years ago neither NH nor MD and more importantly the banks did not require radon testing.

Phil

 

[Anonymous Poster]

PhilNH5, thank you for your info, very interesting. Stanley

 

[gws]

A proper radon test will test several locations throught the home. One or two in the basement and one on the first floor.
If the home is a modern ultra sealed home, might be nice to test but the solution is a radon explustion kit that consist of basicly a small fan to dump air outside.

If its not a newer sealed home its not going to matter, overall I think its bunk...

 

[brin]

I know I am revising an old thread but I just saw a bit on the news today about Radon in our homes....WE built our home 7 yrs. ago and I never tested for it ...

Does anyone think this is a real concern..? this thread is 8 yrs. old ..so by now some of you must have more current thoughts and info...anyone ? Thanks..

 

[Tollster]

Radon is always a concern here in the northeast, the general public recieves normal amouts of atmospheris radiation throughout the year of about 360-500 milirems, this is through natural sources such as decaying ground radiation, and solar. These exposures are consisdered external amounts and are a mix of alpha, (stop my a piece of paper) beta (penetrates a few skin layers deep) and gamma ( Full penetration of body, shield by lead, water, concrete). Radon I believe is considered to be alpha (not sure), but when inhaled its considered internal dose. Internal doses have to be passed through the body when ingested, unlike external. so it stays with you longer, I believe radon has a short half life, but over long term exposure it may never be fully excremented from the body. So long term cronic exposure can certianly shorten your stay on mother earth.

 

[2LaneCruzer]

Radon is a daughter product from the decay of Uranium/Thorium. It is a gas and would eminate from the concrete/rock from which the foundation, basement or facade of your home is made. Consequently, if you live in an area where Radium, Uranium and other radioactive isotopes are present, and your basement is constructed from those materials or from materials from such an area, you should be concerned enough to test your basement. long term exposure can cause lung cancer, especially if you smoke.

Most local health departments will test it for you free or for a reasonable fee.

Check this out:

http://www.epa.gov/radon/zonemap.html

 

[QRTRHRS]

I have had two houses with radon mitigation. The first one was already mitigated by drilling a hole into the slab, inserting a pipe into the slab, sealing the pipe then running it though to the roof with a Fantech fan running 24/7. The second was revealed when I had the test done as part of the purchase agreement. That house was built on a slope with plenty of groundwater movement so they had put a 2x4 between the wall and the slab in the basement just in case they had water. The mitigation contractor put plastic channel over the gap. He then ran two vertical pvc pipes to a header then through the wall rather than to breach the roof. The fan was on the outside of the house.

Having taken classes on radon years ago, I personnally believe the threat is real. Though well known, radon really came to light when a worker at the PPEG Limerick Plant in PA triggered a radiation detector from exposure at home.

When I had bought second place mentioned above, the elderly owner had moved somwhat close to where Limerick is. She complained about after mitigating the house she sold me that she then had to mitigate her well water at the new place because radon can be present in water as well.

Some builders in the "radon belt" will lay 4" pipe with an accessable vertical under the slab just in case later mitigation should be an issue.

FWIW, some of the highest radon readings ever recorded can be found on the Blue Mountain along the Appalachian Trail a little north of RT309. Sounds like a good place to spend the night in your sleeping bag, lol.

It has been quite some time since those classes I had but if I recall correctly, radon may not show up say when first tested for then may appear at a later date.

 

[tcartwri]

Once an alpha particle is injested or inhaled, it is with you for life. The body typically cannot process it or remove it.

 

[SpringHollow]

I get very high spikes of radon every so often in my well water. Fortunately, I have a low yield well (not often you can say fortunately about that) so i just bubble air through my holding tank and vent with a radon fan. That brings the levels down instantly.

Ken

 

[2LaneCruzer]

Once an alpha particle is injested or inhaled, it is with you for life. The body typically cannot process it or remove it.

Tim, your statement could be misleading to some without a bit of explanation. First of all, Radon is a gas, and when inhaled, can be exhaled. Some of the decay products are solids, and may remain in the lungs, some of which cannot be expelled, and will sit there emitting radiation for years. If you have a basement that is continually producing a significant amount of Radon gas, you will breathe it in and out continually, meaning you lungs are continually exposed to radiation.

Radiation emitting particles, when injested, have what is known as a biological half life...meaning that they will pass almost entirely out of the body in a certain amount of time, unless, of course, you get a fatal dose. These radiation emitting particles include things like Uranium, Thorium, Radium, etc. If the radiation emitting particle is water soluble, the body will eventually eliminate it.

When an alpha, beta or gamma particle strikes the body, the energy is dissipated in the body, damaging cells and chromosomes in the process. That particle ceases to exist, but the solid matter emitting the radiation may sit there emitting a continuous stream of particles.

Although alpha particles cannot penetrate more than a sheet of paper, when a material like Radon or Plutonium is inhaled, and it stays in the lung, it may emit hundreds or thousands of alpha particles per second, all expending their energy in the lung...and the energy expended is considerable.

The danger from Radon is no joke; if you live in a suspect area, or if your basement, or foundation contains material from such an area, you should take it seriously.

 

[LBrown59]

I would never buy a place that has radon on it.

 

[brin]

I ordered a radon test kit...and I have to put it in just one place..so I was thinking if I can only pick one place I should put it in the basement since it is under the whole house...my reasoning is , if there is radon there then it must be everywhere above..Am I wrong ? When I built the house I put down a vapor barrier before the basement concrete was poured so that makes me feel better...right ?

 

[grsthegreat]

Well i personally think radon mitigation is just another worthless operation to generate vast amounts of $$$$.

The EPA states that Radon is the major source for lung cancer next to cigarettes, but there isn't any actual scientific literature sites linked to this claim. I have been to several meetings about this over the years, and not a single person giving the lecture has shown any actual scientific studies that link Radon specifically to lung cancer. The tests they'd site just link non-smokers to lung cancer. but these tests don't say anything about second hand smoke.

All i know for an absolute fact is when i worked in Calif as a contractor, i had to call the Asbestos testers and mitigators whenever i tore down an old building. The guy would arrive in his Ferrari to walk the site. $35,000 later his "crew" would have stripped the site of asbestos.

Now, after the LA riots, the EPA canceled all asbestos testing on anything taken to the dump during demo and re-building to speed up the process. So i guess Asbestos poisoning disappears with riots???

So while i digressed away from radon, i think that the asbestos problems are just as overblown. Sure, if i was working IN an asbestos mine OR living in a town next to an Asbestos mine i would be worried, but as usual the EPA overblew an issue until its absolutely ridiculous and another "schemers" dream come true.

 

[SpringHollow]

The risks from asbestos are real. The cancer caused by asbestos is fairly unique. My FIL died of lung cancer. He never smoked but he spent most of his life doing tile floors. The mastic in many of the older floors was asbestos. The company he worked for routinely had him use floor sanders to remove the mastic. When the doctors identified the type of cancer, they said it was almost certainly caused by asbestos and wanted to know how he had been exposed.

Does that mean all of the required procedures for dealing with asbestos make sense - no. We have had to pay large amounts of money to asbestos contractors to cart away stone tops that had asbestos in them. The asbestos was not friable and the contractors took no special precautions because they were not needed. But that is very different than saying to someone it is okay to cut it with an abrasive saw.

Ken