re BX2200 vs B-series

[Stephen]

First let me say that this is *the* premier tractor site and hats off to Muhammad and also to Bird and Wen and
others who have provided a free education to this newbie.

I will shortly have need of a tractor and the BX2200 and B7400/7500 are the likely propects. I'm trying hard to weed out the inapplicable tractors and make a serious choice.

The task is mostly finish mowing 2.5 acres and snow plowing 250-350ft of drive in winter. I'll be tilling an expansive garden and sundry tasks of landscaping and post hole digging on occassion.

The BX1800 seems to have few advocates. I see talk of the BX2200 and even used units on the market regularly. I seldom hear a word about the BX1800. I see so little about BX1800 that I have to believe it isn't selling well compared to the BX2200.

The BX2200 would be a great choice if I had only mowing and snow plowing to contend with. An FEL on a BX2200 *seems* like a good idea, but I'm not certain that with a modest 460lb lift capacity and the need for a separate snow blade I wonder it it isn't just a $2000 wheelbarrow replacement. I wonder if the BX2200 could even handle a post hole digger. Is this a unit really tough enough to do more than mow and snow plow ? Will it handle a narrow tiller well ?

I have fewer fears about the capabilities of the B7400/B7500 units (and the predecessor B7300/B7100/B1700) to handle my occassional tasks of tilling and post hole digging and landscaping but the cost is higher.

My questions:
I'm 100% convinced I want hydro drive regardless of model but I wonder what the impact of no power steering on the B7300/B7400 etc. Does this make handling a real chore or is it just a little less easy ? Would my 105lb wife be able to use a B7400 w/o power steering ? Or is the B7500 worth the extra $$ ?

If I find a discontinued model like a B1700/B7100/B7300 can I still buy kubota mid-mount mowers etc or would I need to search for a another source (Woods ...) ?

Is my feeling about the more modest performance of the BX2200 in non-mowing applications accurate ? 22HP in the BX should trump the 16/17HP in a 7400 or 1700 but from everything I read it isn't so .

 

[bpence]

Maybe I can shed a little bit of light on how a B7100 performs and you can be the judge. Since it doesn't have power steering, there is a bit more steering effort than a B7500 would have, and it's especially noticable at low speed or trying to turn the wheels when you're stopped. For mowing, bush hogging, grading and snow plowing, it's a fine machine and I would recommend a B7100 or B7300 if you could find a nice used one. If you are planning on a front loader, a tractor with power steering is probably a much better choice. The B7100 can handle a lot of tasks and I did use a post hole digger this summer on mine. It just takes longer to do things with that size tractor. Mine is a 1995 model (one of the last B7100s) and is hydrostatic drive. Also, if you need or want position control on the 3-pt, the B7100/7300 don't have it. All in all though, the B7100 is a great little tractor for the money and you probably would not be disappointed in it's performance.

Personally, if I were looking for a tractor with a front loader, I'd look at a slightly larger B-series. Most Kubota dealers can still get mid-mower decks for the B-series, but a lot of folks seem to like the rear mounts. I use a mid-mount because it came with the tractor and I have to admit is is very manuverable, although my neighbor seems to do just fine with his JD that has a rear mount.

My wife does drive mine on occasion and sounds to be about the same size as your wife. About 105 lbs soaking wet. She hasn't complained about the lack of power steering, but then again she doesn't know any different.

Good luck in your search for the right tractor.

Bob Pence

 

[JonE]

Simply put: You need HP to swing a mower/blower and you need weight to put any amount of power to the ground! For your applications (mowing, blowing snow, rototilling) you would be ok with the BX2200. It would be especially easy on the lawn by virtue of it's weight. But if you want to do loader work and ground engaging work then more size the better. I'm not sure I would invest in a BX loader. I have the B2710 with FEL rated at almost 900lbs (I have mine tweaked, so I'm sure it's over 1000lbs) and I often wish I had more. I also wish the bucket had more capacity at times when scouping light material. IMO, I don't think you'd be happy with the FEL investment on a BX. However, I love having a FEL and wouldn't want to be without it!

 

[Bird]

Stephen, I agree with Bob Pence and JonE. I've had a 1995 B7100 with front end loader and now have a B2710 with front end loader; both good tractors. There's not a great deal of difference in the FEL capacity on the BX vs. the B7100 (460/510), but the lack of power steering on the 7100 was one of the reasons I traded up (after having carpal tunnel syndrome surgery on both hands). Position control on the 3-point is also a very nice feature. I suspect the BX1800 is not going to sell very well simply because there isn't that much price difference between it and the 2200, so I'm guessing most folks go with the additional horsepower, even though the 1800 is probably just about as good.

As for the front end loader being a $2000 replacement for a wheelbarrow. Yes, to some extent. It also replaces the shovel needed to load the wheelbarrow, and can be used to smooth and level dirt and gravel, pull posts out of the ground, push snow, dirt, small trees, and a lot of other things that would be impossible for the wheelbarrow. I consider it indispensable.

Good luck with your shopping.

Bird

 

[RPH]

As a BX2200 owner with over a hundred hours on it, I would recommend that you list the things you are going to do with the tractor and then check out each tractors specification. I have 5.5 acres, a couple of horses, riding ring, etc. and have used my tractor with FEL to move rock, dirt and manure. It shore beats a wheelbarrow. I also have a post hole digger which works fine on the BX2200. The reason I bought the BX2200 was it could fit in my garage with my cars yet still have the FEL, mower deck and 3PTH for a varity of attachment. By the way, the FEL works fine with snow and I am planning to get a rear blade for removing your 3 to 6 inch snows.

To sum up, the BX2200 is an excellent machine for your standard small horse farm type of jobs. The bigger the place/jobs, the bigger the tractor you need.

Regardless of what tractor you pick, you will wonder why you never got one sooner. Good luck

 

[msocko3]

If your biggest concern is loader work then I would go with the larger B series tractor, if you do occational loader work then the BX will work just fine, I don't know how it will handle a post hole digger. I can shed some light on the BX1800, I have one, they sell quite fine. Matter of fact when I went to buy mine this past may I had to wait 6 weeks before it came in, my dealer had to work some tricks just to get it that soon. At the time I bought mine in May the dealer had sold 21 units mixed BX1800 and 2200, I know 2 other people that bought a 1800 from the same dealer as me. My reasons for going with the 1800 were price difference, the dealer wanted another $750 for the 2200, I almost caved and bought the 2200 when I was waiting for mine to come in because the dealer had 1 of those setting around with bar tires. I also got the 1800 because there was no real difference besides 3 PTO hp between the 2 units, the money I saved buying the 1800 will buy me a rotary cutter. If you look at the Kubota recomended attachments you will find everything is the same between the BX1800 and 2200, one will not handle anything larger than the other.

I've had the chance to mow with my neighbors B2710 which had a 72" landpride finishing mower on it, I have the 60" mid mount mower on my BX1800. I would rather have the mid mount mower over the finishing mower, I find I have more maneuverability with the mid mount mower vs the finishing mower, the finishing mower adds several feet to the over all lenght of your tractor.

 

[PaulB]

I own a B1700 HST 4 WD, with front loader. The main advantage I see of the 1700 vs. the BX is the position control on the 3 point hitch, the larger 3 point hitch arms which allow easier fitting of rear implements, and the greater ground clearnace of the 1700. The biggest advantage of the BX is I THINK but do not know that it would be more stable on slopes because it is lower to the ground. The instability on slopes is the ONE AND ONLY thing I do not like about my 1700. If your land is flat, this should not be a concern for you. Mid mount mowers and FEL are interchangable between the older 1700/2100/2400 and the current 7400/7500/2410, so If you can get an 1999 or older 1700/2100/2400 you will have no problem fitting what you need to it. Don't get confused by all the numbers - I am talking about the 1700/2100/2400, made from 1995 - 99. These are different from the older 7100 model, which did not have power steering.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

I used to have an older B7100 with 5ft rear finish mower and FEL. I did not feel the lack of power steering was a big disadvantage even with the loader. However, if the FEL was full and I needed to turn, the tractor needed to be moving. Difficult to turn at a standstill. I had a quick attach 3pt, and getting the rear mower on and off was very easy compared to a belly mower. Also my Westendorf loader would not allow a Belly mower since a subframe was used. My loader was quick attach so I did not have it on when mowing. I did use approx. 100lbs of front end weight with the rear mower attached. I personally like a rear mount mower over a belly mower. Rear mount mower is easy on and off, provides more ground clearance, cheaper to buy, are interchangable between tractors if you buy something else, and I believe more durable. A midmount mower is however more able to mow near an object when turning. A B7100 would also be better for digging post holes with its more powerful lift. (Even a B7100 can easily be overwhelmed when trying to remove the digger from a deep hole.)

 

[M. Sullivan]

Went through the same analysis a year ago--2200 v. 7500. Went with the 2710 after much input from the fine folks here. Glad I did--find I wish the FEL capability was even larger, but it gets the job done. Around $4k more for the 2710 v. 7500 but feel wouldl get it back on resale (if I ever sell it!). Neighbor has a 17 yo 7000 series, and while quite capable looks like I can grade twice as fast as what he can. Have the 72" belly mower--awesome. Agile, cuts through 8" grass with ease and shows very little wear after a year. No problems on my considerable slopes--not even a hint of tip. Looks like the decision will be $$ for you just as I. If you plan a lot of 3 pt. work, would recommend the 7500/2710. Best of luck.

 

[Stephen]

Sincere thanks to everyone who replied.

JonE said I might like the BX2200 for it's light weight on my grass - but the BX1800, BX2200, B7400HSD, B7500HSD are all within 112 lbs. At about 1300lbs there are no lightweights here.

My land is pretty flat so I don't think the low BX center of gravity is a big advantage for me. I'm having a hard time collecting data on some of the older models but it appears the following applies (hydrostatic drive models only)

Position Control:
YES: B1700, B2410, B2710, B2910
NO: B7100, B7300, B7400, B7500, BX1800, BX2200
Unknown: B2100, B2400

Power Steering:
YES: BX1800 ,BX2200, B7500, B2410, B2710, B2910
NO: B7100, B7300, B7400
Unknown B1700, B2100, B2400

Gross HP:
16: B7300, B7400
17: B1700(?)
18: BX1800
21: B7500, B2100(?)
22: BX2200
24: B7100(?), B2400, B2410
27: B2710
30: B2910


If anyone can verify and/or correct the above or point me to a good source I'd appreciate it.

== == ==

Anyway I think after all the fine input that I want but don't need power steering since the wife will never use the FEL with a heavy load. PaulB assures me that the major attachments are compatible from 1700/2100/2400 to 7400/7500/2410 which is a great relief in buying used and several of you feel no need to stick with the OEM FEL and MM Mower anyway.

Probably the most persuasive point was from M. Sullivan that I should capitulate to the lust for more & bigger and buy as much as I can afford. I'm not sure I needed that sort of encouragement just now M. Your B2710 would be big fun but I don't think it's real practical for my needs.


RPH mentioned about the BX2200 ...
"By the way, the FEL works fine with snow and I am planning to get a rear blade for removing your 3 to 6 inch snows." Is less than 3 inches still snow ?

I hear a lot of reports that the FEL isn't so great in snow. Fills up, the snow mounds up in front till you stall and have to lift & dump it. That might be OK for light snows, but it seems the FEL can't easily handle deeper snows. The 'rap' I hear about the rear blade and snow is that you end up using it in reverse a lot in deep snow (the BX 6 inch clearance as a negative) which must be very awkward. Also that position control is a big plus for the rear blade and there is none on the BX.

I'm gravitating to the used B2400s I've seen for sale but I need better specs ... or the B7500.

Any comments on deep snow shovelling, the B2400 specs and the data in my little table ? I realize there is no history, but would anyone care to speculate on whether the BX's will hold their resale value as well as the larger B-series ?

 

[Bird]

Stephen, the B7100 was only 16 hp. Have you looked at http://www.kubota.com? You can read specs, compare models, etc., but of course that's for the current models being made and sold. For some makes and models, you can also find some information at http://www.tractortips.com

Bird

 

[Thomas]

Stephen,
If your wife plans on useing the tractor,you should really consider power steering...wish I did.

There still brand new mid and rear mowers for Kubota B7100 on the market,but you may have to search a little and the price hasn't gone down all that much. /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif

Take your time in shopping for a tractor,its an investment now a days.

Thomas..NH /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

 

[Stephen]

Bird,

I came across tractortips.com's spec sheets, but that seem to have a lot of gaps and a few errors.

They list the B1700HSD at 17hp rather than 16hp. After reading thro several of the specs their I believe your 16HP is the correct figure.

 

[Stephen]

Bird,

Apologies, the B7100 is 16hp (Doh!). My dyslexia acting up again. (1700 vs 7100)

Currently I have:

---

Model - Gross/PTO horsepower, Steering/Position, Weight,
Lift/Lift@24", Pump Capacity

BX1800 - 18/13.7hp, PS/DC, 1255lb, 1210/680lb, 5.5gpm
BX2200 - 22/16.7hp, PS/DC, 1300lb, 1210/680lb, 5.5gpm
B7400 - 16/12.5hp, MS/DC, 1290lb, 1356/1058lb, 3.9gpm
B7500 - 24/16hp, PS/DC, 1367lb, 1356/1058lb, 7.0gpm
B2410 - 24/18hp, PS/PC, 1477lb, 1655/1300lb. 7.0gpm
B2710 - 27/20hp, PS/PC, 1741lb, 1655/1300lb. 9.5gpm
B2910 - 30/22hp, PS/PC, 1763lb, 1655/1300lb. 9.5gpm

B1700 - 17/14hp, ??/PC, 1???lb, 1280/#lb, 2.9gpm
B2100 - 21/17hp, ??/??, 1???lb, 1280/#lb, 2.9gpm
B2400 - 24/10hp, PS/??, 1461lb, 1280/1015lb, 5.8gpm
B7100 - 16/13hp, MS/DC, 1265lb, 1036/#lb, 3.6gpm
B7300 - 16/12hp, MS/DC, 1312lb, 1100/#lb, ??gpm

PS - power_steering
MS - manual_steering
PC _ position_control
DC - directional_control

I assume the B1700 & B2100 do NOT have power steering, right ?
Do the B2100 and B2400 have position control ?

I need weight for ther B1700 & B2100 and pump capacty for the B7300.

 

[hayden]

B1700,B2100,B2400 info:

All have power steering

All have position control

B1700 = 17hp, B2100 = 21hp, and B2400=24hp

 

[hayden]

I'm repeating a bit here, but the B1700 and B2100 both have PS and PC.

B1700 is 1402lbs (HSD)
B2100 is 1428lbs (HSD)

The B1700,2100, and 2400 in all material ways are identical except for HP and the B2400 used the LA351 loader which has a 770lbs lift capacity compared to the LA301 on the other models which has a 660lbs capacity

 

[msocko3]

Got a real good taste of deep snow shoveling the other week when old man winter dumped 22" over night. I had my little garden tractor with the 48" 2 stage blower decide it wasn't up to the task, the scraper blade on the blower was bad. Couldn't get my dads drive way so he got the neighbor around the corner to bring his Ford, can't remember the model, I know it's around 30 hp 4x4 with turf tires, size and weight is like a kubota L series and has the 770B fel on it. Anyway, he had his 72" box scraper on the back for weight and to push with, the loader worked like you figured, snow piled up in front until traction was lost and lifting and dumping was the only option. He did however do a great job in short order, he has many hours on heavy equip. from the construction field. The snow did get packed into the bucket requiring it to be dug out with a hand shovel, sometimes it was possible to bang the bucket and make most of it come out. I've had the luxury of using a snow blower, a back blade, and seeing either the neighbors Ford using the FEL and at work I've used a Cat 936 FEL to move snow. The FEL is nice, but it leaves some small coating of snow or ice which get quite slick, only whay around it is putting lots of downward tip on the bucket and scraping real good. The back blade worked much like a plow, just not real neat when it came to hitting the lawn, and once you start piling snow your area will get smaller and smaller as winter progresses. I've seen shoes for the back blades but have not had the chance to see how well they work.

To me the ticket is a snow blower, you have no snow banks to contend with, it just throws it out a long ways. You can scrape a concrete driveway down real well, the yard is a problem during the 1st couple snow falls, then once it gets hard you can float the blower over it without much damage. Only real drag with a blower is the amount of snow you can wear when the wind is not in your favor. All things considered I would have a snow blower over a FEL and back blade when it comes to moving lots of white stuff.

 

[PaulB]

My 1700 is listed at I think 1450 pounds. The figure of 2.9 gpm hydraulic flow is way low. What ever it is for the 2400, it is the same for the 1700/2100. The 1700/2100/2400 are identical in every way except for the bore of the cylinders and the width of the tires fitted (although curiously enough my 1700 came to me with the tires listed for the 2100) The 1700 has a 900 cc motor, the 2100 has a displacement of 1000 cc, and the 2400 is 1100cc. All 3 have many nice features missing on other machines, including the BX. We have already mentioned position control, but also a tachometer, softer steering wheel, bigger gas tank, higher backed seat, and some other features are present on the 1700/2100/2400 and 2410, but not on the 7300/7400/7500. This years 2410 has some subtle improvements, not the least of which is a lighted dashboard, but I think the running gear is the same as the older 2400. I use a rear blade exclusively for snow, I even take the front loader off during the winter because it as useless as **** on a boar for snow. I can blade 12 inches of snow off my 300 foot driveway easily, and have a blast doing it too!

 

[hayden]

My 2 cents:

If you get a loader, get a machine with power steering. I had trouble turning my B2400 with a ful load on pavement even with power steering.

Buy the biggest machine you can afford. It's cheeper to buy the right machine now than to trade up later.

I don't have any first hand experience with the BX machines, but given the list of things you want to do, I'd get at least a B7500, specifically to get PS, a reasonable loader, and position control.

I've had a B2400 and it was a fine machine. I suspect you would be able to find a used one since I think many people like me have found the 2400 to be a bit too small and until this year there was nothing bigger unless you went to the L series which was too big. I traded for a 2910.

 

[Stephen]

Thanks for the specs input PaulB and Hayden,

The 2.9gpm hydraulic pump figure for B1700, B2100 came from the tractortips website and as I said I have a LOT of doubts about the figures there. I *suspect* that there are dual 2.9gpm pumps which would match the 5.8gpm given for the B2400, make sense.

All B1700 and B2100s have PS & position control ! Wow that's great. That really expands the used tractors I can consider. I've taken the comments about the desirability of power steering to heart too.

After correcting some typos and finding some old data sheet info on various dealer websites and adding in comments and my guesses based on PaulB and Haydens notes I have ...


B/BX series Hydromatic Drive Tractor Specs (tentative)

Model - Gross/PTO horsepower, Steering/Position, Weight,
Lift/Lift@24", Pump Capacity. Tach

BX1800 - 18/13.7hp, PS/DC, 1255lb, 1210/680lb, 5.5gpm, NoTach
BX2200 - 22/16.7hp, PS/DC, 1300lb, 1210/680lb, 5.5gpm, NoTach
B7400 - 16/12.5hp, MS/DC, 1290lb, 1356/1058lb, 3.9gpm, Tach
B7500 - 24/16hp, PS/DC, 1367lb, 1356/1058lb, 7.0gpm, Tach
B2410 - 24/18hp, PS/PC, 1477lb, 1655/1300lb. 7.0gpm, Tach
B2710 - 27/20hp, PS/PC, 1741lb, 1655/1300lb. 9.5gpm, Tach
B2910 - 30/22hp, PS/PC, 1763lb, 1655/1300lb. 9.5gpm, Tach

B1700 - 17/13hp, PS/PC, 1402lb, 1280/1015lb, 5.8gpm, Tach
B2100 - 21/16hp, PS/PC, 1428lb, 1280/1015lb, 5.8gpm, Tach
B2400 - 24/18hp, PS/PC, 1461lb, 1280/1015lb, 5.8gpm, Tach
B7100 - 16/13hp, MS/DC, 1265lb, 1036/#lb, 3.6gpm, ?
B7300 - 16/12.5hp, MS/DC, 1312lb, 1100/860lb, 3.9gpm, ?

--

PS - power_steering
MS - manual_steering
PC _ position_control
DC - directional_control

==

So the B1700/2100/2400 and B2410 are starting to look very attractive to me, with the BX2200 and BX7500 still in the running.

My question on performance and horsepower. I see on Steve Carver's 'tips' page at
http://www.carverequipment.com/tips.htm
that he is strongly in favor of the compacts 'B's over the subcompact 'BX's, making statements like the B7300 @16hp is 50% more tractor and 20% "more efficient" at mowing than the 22hp BX2200.

I'm not fool enough to rate any machine by horsepower alone. Better design for a given application can make up for a lot of raw hp. At a certain point you are just spinning your wheels harder with those extra HP. So is Carver's statements justified ?

All the units I'm considering fall between 1300lb and 1477 lbs so weight isn't an issue. The wheelbases and heights, especially on the BX vary quite a bit. Could I really finish mow any faster or better with a B7300s 12.5pto-hp or a B7500s 16pto-hp vs a BX2200 w/ 16.7pto-hp ? Seems unlikely to me. This is a very important question, since ultimately I'll be putting in more hours mowing after the first couple years of landscaping and garden prep than anything else. What am I missing ?

I could believe that there are design factors that make a B7500 or B2100 better suited to 'tractor' application than a BX2200. FEL lift capacity on a BX is 480lbs vs 685 to 760lbs for the various B7x00/B2x10 line FELS. I would think that height might make post hole digging difficult on the short BX2200 even tho the extra pto-hp would be a big advantage.

Are there any big differnces in the transmissions on these units ?

I guess I feel that the BX was built to mow with light duty tractoring built on, but units like the B2400 are tractors with mowing capability as part of the design. I mean if I intended to use a FEL every day a never mow, the BXs wouldn't be in consideration despite comparable specs. I *think* my application with some post-hole digging, landscaping and moving downed timber is on the edge for a BX2200 despite the superior horsepower. Is the B2100 a step up from the BX2200 in these 'tractor' appications ?


I occasionally see some Kubota B-series numbers I don't recognize, like the B2150 which tractortips claims is 24/18hp made from 1988-1998, or the B1550/B1750. Can anyone explain what these are ? They seem to be heavier and have higher HP engines than their names would suggest.