JerryG
Super Member
Re: Rear hydraulic on Kubotas the less expensive w
BBELL,
Looks good, thanks for showing us the pictures.
BBELL,
Looks good, thanks for showing us the pictures.
Rear hydraulic on Kubotas the less expensive way
- Thread starter BBELL
- Start date
- Views: 12558
DocHeb
Veteran Member
Re: Rear hydraulic on Kubotas the less expensive w
Not being a hydraulic engineer - I've held my comments on designing this part.
Not being a machinist - I held my comments on that topic.
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( As for the story of fluid penetrating the skin, it is nearly an urban legend. )</font>
But to call hydraulic injection an urban legend is steppin' into my territory, and I will have to beg-to-differ. The injection of petroleum based products causes a minimal, innocuous appearing lesion. However, sometimes enough is injected that the oil travels up the tissue layers into the body. Both the pressure buildup from the fluid and the additional swelling from the inflammation cause increased tissue pressure. This pressure will rise so high that blood will not flow into the affected area, causing tissue death. If not rapidly corrected, this will result in amputation.
Photo demonstration of a model of injection injury at Farmedic.
Fairly heavy-duty doctor-speak description of injection injuries, and describing up to a 48% amputation rate with significant injections at eMedicine Hand Injury, High Pressure.
Laymans description at WebMD.
Nice summary article in Postgraduate Medicine Online - High pressure injection injury of the hand
Non-medical summary from Fluid Power Safety. Nice photo of seemingly innocuous injury and incision necessary to drain out all the oil.
Try a Google search. This is not in Snopes2.com or TruthorFiction.com.
Not being a hydraulic engineer - I've held my comments on designing this part.
Not being a machinist - I held my comments on that topic.
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( As for the story of fluid penetrating the skin, it is nearly an urban legend. )</font>
But to call hydraulic injection an urban legend is steppin' into my territory, and I will have to beg-to-differ. The injection of petroleum based products causes a minimal, innocuous appearing lesion. However, sometimes enough is injected that the oil travels up the tissue layers into the body. Both the pressure buildup from the fluid and the additional swelling from the inflammation cause increased tissue pressure. This pressure will rise so high that blood will not flow into the affected area, causing tissue death. If not rapidly corrected, this will result in amputation.
Photo demonstration of a model of injection injury at Farmedic.
Fairly heavy-duty doctor-speak description of injection injuries, and describing up to a 48% amputation rate with significant injections at eMedicine Hand Injury, High Pressure.
Laymans description at WebMD.
Nice summary article in Postgraduate Medicine Online - High pressure injection injury of the hand
Non-medical summary from Fluid Power Safety. Nice photo of seemingly innocuous injury and incision necessary to drain out all the oil.
Try a Google search. This is not in Snopes2.com or TruthorFiction.com.
Junkman
Super Member
Re: Rear hydraulic on Kubotas the less expensive w
Thanks for the information. As a retired EMS person, I also thought that there was a grave danger with injection of fluid at high pressure due to tissue death. I looked at the first link and saw the hot dog pictures. After going to the last picture, I decided that I didn't need to go any further. It still amazes me the work that I had done for 15 years on the ambulance and how little tolerance that I now have for it 30 years later. I guess that what you had a stomach for when you are young you loose in old age /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif.... just another reason that I am safety conscious now and drive slower in both the car and the tractor.
Thanks for the information. As a retired EMS person, I also thought that there was a grave danger with injection of fluid at high pressure due to tissue death. I looked at the first link and saw the hot dog pictures. After going to the last picture, I decided that I didn't need to go any further. It still amazes me the work that I had done for 15 years on the ambulance and how little tolerance that I now have for it 30 years later. I guess that what you had a stomach for when you are young you loose in old age /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif.... just another reason that I am safety conscious now and drive slower in both the car and the tractor.
_RaT_
Super Member
- Joined
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- Kioti 3510-SE HST
Re: Rear hydraulic on Kubotas the less expensive w
As I recall, this type of penetration by high pressure into the body and the resulting complications is not limited to oil but pretty much most fluids. My airless paint sprayer warns of much the same issues. If for some reason you manage to get your finger close enough to the spray tip and you get cut, it recommends immediate medical attention.
As I recall, this type of penetration by high pressure into the body and the resulting complications is not limited to oil but pretty much most fluids. My airless paint sprayer warns of much the same issues. If for some reason you manage to get your finger close enough to the spray tip and you get cut, it recommends immediate medical attention.
Re: Rear hydraulic on Kubotas the less expensive w
Thanks Doc:
I feel your comments generally support what I have been saying. As you pointed out, it is in the extreme cases that permanent or debilitating damage occurs. Most times it does not reach this level of harm. For sure it's not good to inject any foreign substance into the body.
As for the "urban legend" aspect, I was refering to the widely held myth that the force of the oil stream itself can cut off fingers, arms and legs. I fully appreciate the risk of injected oil, and I for one would have it treated if it occurred.
As I posted earlier, common sense and good safety practices ahould always be observed around machinery. If someone gets a noticable amount of oil injected under the skin, for sure they should have it looked at by a prefessional.
Again, no one I have spoken to in the prefessional community even knows of a case of any oil injection having occurred. Perhaps we are more careful, or maybe it is truly a rare accident.
paul
Thanks Doc:
I feel your comments generally support what I have been saying. As you pointed out, it is in the extreme cases that permanent or debilitating damage occurs. Most times it does not reach this level of harm. For sure it's not good to inject any foreign substance into the body.
As for the "urban legend" aspect, I was refering to the widely held myth that the force of the oil stream itself can cut off fingers, arms and legs. I fully appreciate the risk of injected oil, and I for one would have it treated if it occurred.
As I posted earlier, common sense and good safety practices ahould always be observed around machinery. If someone gets a noticable amount of oil injected under the skin, for sure they should have it looked at by a prefessional.
Again, no one I have spoken to in the prefessional community even knows of a case of any oil injection having occurred. Perhaps we are more careful, or maybe it is truly a rare accident.
paul
DocHeb
Veteran Member
Re: Rear hydraulic on Kubotas the less expensive w
I have seen three significant injection injuries over the past 17 years of being an emergency physician. All were from airless paint guns, and the patients all required surgical excision. Two were on fingers, one was on a thigh. All three patients felt the tip was clogging off so they wiped the clump off with their fingers (or wiped the tip on their thigh in one case - the safety cage had broken off). These patients need to be seen by surgeons, who start the incision at the puncture and keep going until the paint/oil trail ends. Hand injuries can be the worst since the injectate follows the path of least resistance which tends to be along the tendon sheaths across the palm. These get inflammed and scar during healing, causing decreased motion.
I haven't seen any hydraulic injection injuries since I don't work in an industrial or heavy farming area. This seriousness of this type of injury is pounded into our heads during training - the wound looks like nothing, yet the consequences can be horrendous. I can guarantee that on my next Emergency Medicine Board Recertification exam there will be a question regarding the management of high-pressure injection injuries. They will show a picture of a small puncture wound on a finger, and the wrong answer will be to "Clean the wound and discharge patient on antibiotics".
Luckily it doesn't happen too often, or we would have mandated safety shielding around anything hydraulic and they would outlaw high pressure spray guns.
I have seen three significant injection injuries over the past 17 years of being an emergency physician. All were from airless paint guns, and the patients all required surgical excision. Two were on fingers, one was on a thigh. All three patients felt the tip was clogging off so they wiped the clump off with their fingers (or wiped the tip on their thigh in one case - the safety cage had broken off). These patients need to be seen by surgeons, who start the incision at the puncture and keep going until the paint/oil trail ends. Hand injuries can be the worst since the injectate follows the path of least resistance which tends to be along the tendon sheaths across the palm. These get inflammed and scar during healing, causing decreased motion.
I haven't seen any hydraulic injection injuries since I don't work in an industrial or heavy farming area. This seriousness of this type of injury is pounded into our heads during training - the wound looks like nothing, yet the consequences can be horrendous. I can guarantee that on my next Emergency Medicine Board Recertification exam there will be a question regarding the management of high-pressure injection injuries. They will show a picture of a small puncture wound on a finger, and the wrong answer will be to "Clean the wound and discharge patient on antibiotics".
Luckily it doesn't happen too often, or we would have mandated safety shielding around anything hydraulic and they would outlaw high pressure spray guns.
Re: Rear hydraulic on Kubotas the less expensive w
Your observations are interesting. Nearly all of the cases sited are related to devices with nozzles as part of the equipment, mostly paint sprayers and diesel injectors.
Most cases show how careless people are with equipment.
paul
Your observations are interesting. Nearly all of the cases sited are related to devices with nozzles as part of the equipment, mostly paint sprayers and diesel injectors.
Most cases show how careless people are with equipment.
paul
DocHeb
Veteran Member
Re: Rear hydraulic on Kubotas the less expensive w
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Most cases show how careless people are with equipment. )</font>
Yes, we definitely agree on that point. In fact, I'd say the majority of problems occur when people don't follow instructions, use tools the wrong way, don't maintain their equipment, don't follow the rules, do things even though they knew better, and overall just do stupid things.
You can't mandate common sense, unfortunately. Of course, it would severely cut into my practice. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
There was a great scene in the book "Hunt for Red October" (that I don't think was done in the movie), where the submarine engineer is looking for a leak in the high pressure steam system for the ship's nuclear reactor. He knew he found the leak when the broomstick handle he was waving suddenly fell into two pieces, cut without effort by the invisible stream.
You're right, it doesn't happen like that in real life.
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Most cases show how careless people are with equipment. )</font>
Yes, we definitely agree on that point. In fact, I'd say the majority of problems occur when people don't follow instructions, use tools the wrong way, don't maintain their equipment, don't follow the rules, do things even though they knew better, and overall just do stupid things.
You can't mandate common sense, unfortunately. Of course, it would severely cut into my practice. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
There was a great scene in the book "Hunt for Red October" (that I don't think was done in the movie), where the submarine engineer is looking for a leak in the high pressure steam system for the ship's nuclear reactor. He knew he found the leak when the broomstick handle he was waving suddenly fell into two pieces, cut without effort by the invisible stream.
You're right, it doesn't happen like that in real life.
accordionman
Gold Member
BBELL,
can you please tell us the exact specifications for the
spool valve you are using? after reading your post, i am
now convinced i can make my own tnt unit. but i do not
know what type of spool valve i will need.
thanks.
accordionman
wlbrown
wright city, mo.
can you please tell us the exact specifications for the
spool valve you are using? after reading your post, i am
now convinced i can make my own tnt unit. but i do not
know what type of spool valve i will need.
thanks.
accordionman
wlbrown
wright city, mo.