Rear Remotes - Planning stages, need advice

[number9L]

So I looked at the SV manual more yesterday and found that with the valve mounted like I mocked up, with the ports facing in toward the seat, the stick will go into float forward and to the left. Both are really *** backwards. The top cylinder I can live with cause it would match the operation of the 3pth, which is backwards in my mind as well but I can't change that. The tilt working backwards would suck. I'd get used to it, but still it'd suck. It should still be doable but I'll have to work out a mount setup to turn the valve around with the ports facing the fender and then make a joystick shaft to bend and extend out from under and up beside the seat. Don't know how well the stick would work extended out and up like that though. Maybe I can mount the valve tilted a bit to get the top of it closer to the side of the seat. If it ain't one thing it's another lol, dang it.

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[number9L]

Are the Kubota quick connects on the FEL 3/8 or 1/2? These look to be a match to the Kubota OEM QCs and I've read that they will work with the OEM connectors. ISO 7241 Series B Quick Disconnects (Complete Set) The 3/8" QCs show to have a 12GPM flowrate, which is higher than the pump anyway.

I see some guys talking of using 1/4" hoses on the TnT and some using 3/8" hoses. When the rest of the tractor has 3/8" hoses and connectors, why would anyone want to use 1/4"?

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[MtnViewRanch]

Are the Kubota quick connects on the FEL 3/8 or 1/2? These look to be a match to the Kubota OEM QCs and I've read that they will work with the OEM connectors. ISO 7241 Series B Quick Disconnects (Complete Set) The 3/8" QCs show to have a 12GPM flowrate, which is higher than the pump anyway.

I see some guys talking of using 1/4" hoses on the TnT and some using 3/8" hoses. When the rest of the tractor has 3/8" hoses and connectors, why would anyone want to use 1/4"?

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3/8" QDs have a flow rate of 6GPM. The 12GPM that you are seeing is max flow rate and will be severely heating the oil at that flow rate.

People like the 1/4" because of size, flexibility and cost. I prefer the 3/8" and 1/2" stuff myself. The QDs on the loader are 3/8". Now there are small 3/8 and big 3/8. I believe that Kubota uses the small 3/8 QDs.

 

[number9L]

Hmm....so if my pump is 6.9GPM (I think), and of Kubota uses the small 3/8" QC on the loader, those should be fine for the TnT as well. How do you tell the difference between the small and large 3/8 QCs?

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[MtnViewRanch]

3/8" male ends

small .68

large .75

 

[Steve in MT]

Take your mock up and see if it will fit in there by turning it 90deg one way or the other (2 spool valve?). There is a small chance that you could build an off set joystick handle to make it come up where you want it. The forward/back/float would work just fine, the side to side movement would be the question. When I added a rear remote to my L3400, I truly only needed one remote to operate a down presure cylinder for a post hole auger. http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/hydraulics/279524-kubota-l-series-rear-remote.html
I also built a brush graple and added a front remote valve next to the FEL valve. If for some reason or another that I must have an extra rear remote for something, then I could simply run a pair hoses to the rear from that. Keep us posted on what you come up with, it looks interesting.
Steve

 

[number9L]

So I am going to call Prince tomorrow and have them confirm that the valve won't go into float forward(or backward)/right with it mounted like I want. If they confirm that it won't, then I think I am just going to go with the Brand LV valve combined with a diverter valve and just use the forward movement of the joystick for both the Top and Tilt (flipping the toggle switch on to the diverter valve) so both cylinders will have Float ability.

I will use the second spool of the Brand LV valve for a 3rd rear remote - don't know what I'll use it for, but it'll be there for someday.

BUT.....the Brand LV valve at Surplus Center Surplus Center - 2 SPOOL COMPACT 10 GPM JOYSTICK CONTROL VALVE has Regen on the side to side axis (second spool) of the joystick.

I see that Northern Tool has two versions of this Brand LV valve...

One with Regen Brand Hydraulics Monoblock Loader Valve with Regeneration, Model# PLV22RFSTKAB | Control Valves| Northern Tool + Equipment

One without Regen Brand Hydraulics Monoblock Loader Valve, Model# PLV22TSTKAB | Control Valves| Northern Tool + Equipment

Being that I am not going to be using the second spool for a loader bucket, should I avoid getting the one with the Regen spool? Would the Regen function screw me up if I were to use it for anything other than a loader bucket dump? - like an angle cylinder on a rear blade or a hydraulic ripper bar on a box blade?

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[J_J]

Just don't go into regen,

Regen just make things work faster, but has less power.

 

[number9L]

Got some updates on the valve hunt.

I spoke to Prince technical support yesterday for about 45min. I told the guy how I wanted the valve to mount and the joystick to work. He got an engineer on the line and they reviewed prints and a sample valve in their hands and confirmed 98% that the joystick mounting could be rotated to put spool 1 into float when pushing to the right. However, this would change spool 2 to float when pulling back on the stick. In my mind, this is fine, pull back on the stick, the cylinder moves back. BUT, it's opposite of the 3pt hitch operation, which I think is backwards from what it should be, but I can't change that. Since the 3pt stick and this joystick will be next to each other and I'll be reaching for them both while looking back at the implements and using the tractor, I'd rather them work the same way. I haven't written the SV valve off yet, but wanted to see if I can get closer to whats in my head.

I called and spoke to engineering at Brand Hydraulics. They confirmed to me that they CAN put float in both spools on their valves. Not the LV valve, but an MB valve, which he said is the same valve body but just not with the regen. They also offer a 3 spool version and confirmed that I can get one with - sitting on the tractor, levers by seat - 1st spool, normal handle, 2nd & 3rd spools, both with float and operated by joystick AND the spools will go into float by pushing the stick forward (Top cylinder) and to the right (Tilt cylinder) which is exactly what I am looking for.

He gave me the part # to order and told me it wasn't in their system as an orderable part # but he would have them enter it this morning so I can order one. I am working with Conrad at Surplus Center on ordering it. He has handed off to their purchasing department who is getting pricing from Brand and he is supposed to call me back and let me know.

It will look like this but have a joystick on the 2 sections to the right.

Part # MB23TSTKTKLABW

MB2 - valve model
3 - 3-spool
T - tandem center 4-way spool type (1st section)
S - spring center spool action (1st section)
T - tandem center 4-way spool type (2nd section)
K - fourth pos float spool action (2nd section)
T - tandem center 4-way spool type (3rd section)
K - fourth pos float spool action (3rd section)
L - enclosed lever handle (1st section)
A - standard joystick handle (2nd & 3rd sections)
B - adjustable relief
W - power beyond sleeve installed


The 2 spool version with a joystick and both spools float is:

Part # MB22TKTKABW

MB2 - valve model
2 - 2-spool
T - tandem center 4-way spool type (1st section)
K - fourth pos float spool action (1st section)
T - tandem center 4-way spool type (2nd section)
K - fourth pos float spool action (2nd section)
A - standard joystick handle (1st & 2nd sections)
B - adjustable relief
W - power beyond sleeve installed

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[number9L]

Gathering my order for fittings. These look OK?


Will use 3/8" hose with JIC female swivel ends.

Valve has SAE #8 ports
TnT cylinders have SAE #6 ports
Will use 3/8" ISO-B Quick Connects to be compatable with Kubota QCs (just in case)


SAE 8 - JIC 3/8 short -> 6 for side and lower ports on valve
SAE 37ｰ Flare (JIC) x O-Ring Boss (ORB) Adapter

SAE 8 - JIC 3/8 long -> 3 for upper work ports on valve
will buy these from Surplus Center for 1/2 the cost :confused2:
SAE 37ｰ Flare (JIC) x O-Ring Boss (ORB) Long

JIC 3/8 90* swivel (m-f) -> 15 for all hose to valve connections & hose to QC bulkheads
SAE 37ｰ (JIC) Swivel Nut 90ｰ Elbow

JIC 3/8 45* swivel (m-f) -> 6 to test with - may use on QC or TnT cylinders
SAE 37ｰ (JIC) Swivel Nut 45ｰ Elbow

3/8 ISO B Quick Connects -> 6 for rear remote mounting on ROPS plate
ISO 7241 Series B Quick Disconnects (Complete Set)

Male 3/8 NPT - JIC 3/8 Bulkhead -> 6 for mounting female QC on ROPS plate
Male Pipe (NPTF) x SAE 37ｰ Flare (JIC) Bulkhead

Male 3/8 NPT - JIC 3/8 -> 6 for mounting male QC on TnT hoses
Steel Fittings: JIC 37ｰ Male x NPTF Male Pipe

SAE 6 - JIC 3/8 short -> 4 for TnT cylinders
SAE 37ｰ Flare (JIC) x O-Ring Boss (ORB) Adapter

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[JoeL4330]

Interested to see how this works out. A lot of thought has gone into it. For my setup (6 rear, and a 3rd function) I have found no use for float. My bush and my finish mowers have swinging links to attach to the top link, so they follow or I would just use a chain. [I have previously posted about sometimes using a HF swinging toplink adapter with my backblade, which has a hydraulic tail wheel]

I do consider it vital for the T&T cylinders to have positive check valves ...just the opposite of float, as it were.

Not too long ago I had a malfunction w the 3rd fctn on loader joystick and started using one of the rear remotes for my grapple. BUT, it was very impractical...required two-handed contortion and I could not seem to coordinate U/D/Curl w. grapple-open/close. I repaired the 3rd fctn and switched back.

As for the box blade, it would seem that quite the opposite, you would want rigidity to smooth the contours, not follow (and exaggerate) them.

The OP asked about use for float on Tilt ...only use I can think of is to allow my backblade to follow crown when plowing snow ...although I could introduce compliance in other ways if I chose.

I should add that using "push-pull" qc's is a pleasure ...especially in tight spaces

 

[paulwestski]

Number9L

You may want to invest in a set of hydraulic wrenches. They're thinner and have offsets that will save you a lot of frustration.
They're pretty inexpensive for a cheap set. It's not like you'll be torquing the fittings to 50 ftlbs.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/V-8-Tools-8...337?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d3658f9e9

 

[number9L]

Joe, a lot of thought has gone into this, I usually stress myself out thinking of every possible situation that may come up down the road and leave me with regret that "dang I should have done X or Y". I made a hasty decision on a truck once and lived with it for 10yr wishing it was something else. I think that ruined me, but I've not lived with too much regret on decisions I've made since.

I use the HF QH for my bush and finish decks too. They both have swinging top links but didn't have near the range of motion I need for my land - lots of hills and banks, with only one small true flat spot that I mow. I made a copy of the LandPride floating top link adapter and that helped a good bit, but I still find myself compensating all the time with the 3pt height. I believe the floating top TnT will cure that, but I'll likely have to modify the decks so the top link is fixed like on a BB.

I've got a BB ordered and I need to do a LOT of making grades and cutting ditches on my property as the water drainage is horrible. The PO's obviously gave no thought to water drainage anywhere. I believe the float on the tilt TnT will help with keeping the ditches cleaned out once I get them cut, as well as follow drive crowns (that I have to cut as well).


Paul, I'd seen your mention of buying a set of hydraulic wrenches in your TnT thread and planned on getting some. I've read your thread many times and have it subscribed so I can find it for easy reference. I plan to copy a lot of what you did and mix in some stuff I've seen others do as well.

Also to answer one of your earlier questions, I don't have the backhoe attachment, so I've got more leeway on mounting things in back and running the hoses.

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[number9L]

So Conrad from Surplus Center called me today to tell me that they've confirmed with Brand Hyd that those part #'s are in the system and orderable............but it will be a 20 WEEK lead time as they will be "custom" builds.

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[number9L]

I think I am just going to go with the SV valve. I don't want to install a temp valve for the 20 week wait and then have to open the hyd system back up and do everything all over again.

Gonna place the order tonight or tomorrow and get the parts here so I can start the mockup for the lines and all.

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[number9L]

So getting ready to order my fittings. Wondering if I should get a 90* Bent Tube fitting to connect the Inlet and Outlet on the SV valve? Fluid would be flowing through here all the time, so wondering if it makes that much of a difference in heating the fluid up that they are worth the cost?

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[number9L]

Ordered the Prince SV valve and all the fittings today. Looking forward to getting the parts and starting the mock up and mounting plates figured out. I'll post up some pics during the process.

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[number9L]

All (most all) my fittings came in. Looking at the QC couplers......the tractor has the male fitting on the tractor with the female part on the hoses for the FEL.....but most everyone I see post pics of rear remotes has the female QC on the tractor. I got the ISO-B QC's so they'd match up to the Kubota OEM connectors. I guess it makes sense to me that the female QC may be apt to get dirty/banged around if it's on the hoses / implement end?? But I'd also think I'd like the option of the QC's being common - who knows, I may be in some situation someday and need to plug into the FEL valve for something??

What are the Pro/Con of each way?

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[MtnViewRanch]

All (most all) my fittings came in. Looking at the QC couplers......the tractor has the male fitting on the tractor with the female part on the hoses for the FEL.....but most everyone I see post pics of rear remotes has the female QC on the tractor. I got the ISO-B QC's so they'd match up to the Kubota OEM connectors. I guess it makes sense to me that the female QC may be apt to get dirty/banged around if it's on the hoses / implement end?? But I'd also think I'd like the option of the QC's being common - who knows, I may be in some situation someday and need to plug into the FEL valve for something??

What are the Pro/Con of each way?

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Industry stds vary for how the loader QDS are situated. ALL rear remotes have the female ends on the tractor. Most use 1/2". Kubota seems to use 3/8" for their tractors that don't have the remotes integrated into the machine. :confused2:

Pro for having the male ends at the rear, no ones other stuff is going to work on your machine.

Con, for having the male ends at the rear, no ones other stuff is going to work on your machine.

Your choice, I can't see why you would ever use the FEL lines for anything since you have the rear remotes.

 

[number9L]

Hmm....ok, guess I'll put the female ends on the tractor. I figure since I went with the ISO-B QCs that most probably any attachment I get with hyd will have to be changed/modified as they will likely come with some other QC anyway. When you buy an implement with hyd, do you have the choice of specifying the connectors or do they just come with standard ag connectors? I went with the ISO-B to match what was already on the tractor - I don't plan on using the FEL for anything else, but who knows, I may be in a bind someday and need the flexibility to connect an implement at either end?? Maybe I'm just over thinking a little too :laughing:

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