Replacing the forward reverse shuttle in a montana 3040 and clutch

[spokane 1]

first photo is correct on the 7;22pm reply.......the bump goes in the center.....the horns go down....grease in position with wheel grease.....then take the overshifter and slip it over the whole thing...sometimes you have to wiggle the flat bars to get the gear over the top.here more info......in another photo blow these photos up large to read my type....

 

[bones1]

Thanks for the info. The overshifter is a new unit. Now I just wait for the rest of the parts that should be here Tuesday.

 

[spokane 1]

Thanks for the info. The overshifter is a new unit. Now I just wait for the rest of the parts that should be here Tuesday.

I still have no clue what you broke? you never showed the damaged parts? can you photo them? ( overshifter usually loses it Sharp **** from grinding ) we replaced all the F-R gears since it such a ***** to tear down. I know we tossed some good gears but hey.....its a 20hour tour to get inside.

another tip it looked as if your syncro was placed right...and yes the flat bar detentes slip in the slots the syncros can be held in place upon assembly with heavy wheel bearing grease.

we used the red high temp gasket sealer on mating surfaces between the two transmissions and blue permatex for the top.
It took 2 of us to guide and hold the fork on the overshifter down below on the driver-side (until it slipped on the shift shaft) ,,,,as the two trannys came to gether we had to twist the internal shafts to get the teeth to line up top shaft then the bottom shaft we were careful to sense any mashing or interference after we placed 2 of the "nuts on the guide studs" and rolled them down.
each turn of the nut we stopped and twisted shafts to make sure there was no bind.

 

[bones1]

This is the only statement I don't understand so far,
"make sure when the units come apart go very slowly because the shiftier fork will hang up and the over shift couplet will fall out ((make sure)) you check orientation or premark with a black felt marker prior to disassembly for orientation. front ///back is all you worry about. 1/2 of the reverse gear is on the front shuttle and the other 1/2 of the reverse gear stays with the back tranny.The over shiftier is the only thing that couples them at full assembly. ((this has to be right at assembly))"

I have looked for a front / rear orientation on this part, if I am looking at the shift couplet, and see no difference in it. both sides look identical.The cheesy manual states something similar as well. Can you clarify this for me so I don't overlook something. Thank you sir.

 

[bones1]

Broken parts are
the f/r shift fork
I think caused by the nut backing off. The nut threads were completely stripped as well and I got a new one.

The shifter couplet had the sharp **** ground down on the reverse gear side and a little on the other side.
is this the part refered to with a front / rear orientation?. I dont see it.

The three little detents I call them were scored up badly as well as the hub they fit in. Lots of scoring in the hub. I replaced everything in this picture as well as both brass syncro rings.Also got a new nut but the bearing felt good.I have no clue on the torque on the nut going back but it had two full threads showing when installed.


I also replaced this part behind the syncro, it had some wear as well.


I put the pto clutch back in, this is as far as I can get it to go, some splines still showing but it is snug and does not wobble.

 

[spokane 1]

Broken parts are
the f/r shift forkView attachment 510062
I think caused by the nut backing off. The nut threads were completely stripped as well and I got a new one.

The shifter couplet had the sharp **** ground down on the reverse gear side and a little on the other side.
View attachment 510063 is this the part refered to with a front / rear orientation?. I dont see it.

The three little detents I call them were scored up badly as well as the hub they fit in. Lots of scoring in the hub. I replaced everything in this picture as well as both brass syncro rings.Also got a new nut but the bearing felt good.I have no clue on the torque on the nut going back but it had two full threads showing when installed.
View attachment 510067

I also replaced this part behind the syncro, it had some wear as well.
View attachment 510068

I put the pto clutch back in, this is as far as I can get it to go, some splines still showing but it is snug and does not wobble.
View attachment 510069

Holy crap.....how did the shift fork break? usually the weak link in all of these LS tractors is the upright F-R shifting rod exiting the top shuttle plate it usually snaps dead even with the case top.

glad you replaced the transfer hub and the detentes (as for the reverse gear that sit behind it we replaced our too) but really didnt need to. the Torque is very tight on this nut
and since no one but the factory has the proper wrench that fits the gear to tighten the nut...the best I could do is use a doubled cotton sock and a large pipe wrench on the gears behind the nut to act as the dead stop.
my buddy then held the pipe wrench once positioned...i pulled out my torque wrench and socket i walloped out about 80-90 ft lbs on the nut. (i don't know the proper torque) but for its size 80-90 would be proper for a nut that big. My buddy was glad I stopped at that ftlb because he was being lifted off the ground.

so if you bought a new shifting fork just leave the new one off the shaft (this has to be installed on the shaft later as you inch the two tyranny's together) the roll pin has to be 1/8 staked not to hinder the shaft passage at assembly.. but has to be installed deep enough not to fall out when whacked by a brass rod at final assembly. the pin location is so deep in the tranny you cant reach it with hands to set a loose pin. I used a 1 foot long brass rod to wack the pin one it found its hole) this is very hard to find with the pin atop 1/8 staked. gingerly tapping and moving the fork on the rod to-and fro was the only way to find the hole) once the hole was found it tapped right in.

Your overshift couplet may be reversible (meaning both sides are the same.) I just tell people to mark all tranny parts directions out of abundance of caution.
worn **** on one side (forward ) is a sign the syncro is toast. I replace all syncros regardless (its very hard to determine wear on syncros unless you use a micrometer.)

at re-assembly a person thinks you can slide the two tyranny together without removing the over-shift ring and fork.. and simply greasing the detentes and syncros in position...and leaving the fork pinned.
you cant do this....the overshift ring bumps all the greased detentes off the couplet lower ring every time....the detentes just are spring ed to high for simple reassembly.
The overshift has to be placed on the couplet gear splines.. and each little flatbar detent has to be toggled by your fingers downward so the ring then loads on the couplet.
leave the ring in the neutral position the detentes will spring out inside the ring holding it firmly in neutral.

the fork has to be hand held until the trannys are about 3 inches apart then it will load onto its proper shaft. and start slipping home to its proper pin hole...as you push the tyranny together.

this is the only way I have found to assemble this tractors tyrannys.



the gear on the shuttle shaft side is forward gear. 1st gear.. It has a nut directly forward of it. (the nut is used to seat the bearing in the cup (just forward of reverse gear is the bearing im talking about) that marrys to this at full assembly of both transmissions. this Nut should be inched forward to its factory shadow line...for final assembly
then when the two transmissions are married together and torqued fully... this nut is then tightened by wrench..."tight" to seat the bearing in the cup...then the nut is backed off then tightened to just 10-20 inch lbs finger tight.. and staked (so it doesn't come loose again like it did in your case) As for how the nut became stripped out I haven't a foggiest the top shifting shaft should have broken far ahead of any nut being stripped. ( i would double check both the back shaft for lateral movement and the front shaft for lateral movement to see if a c-clip is damaged or missing or a bearing is damaged to allow these shafts to move so much it strips the threads a set nut this large?

the shafts should have enough movement 10-30 thousands to compensate for variability in gasket goo between the 2 trannys. but that should be all the lateral shaft movement you have.
if you have way more movement something is wrong.

you can use thread lock (red sticky crap sold in a small bottle) if there is no oil present on the shaft to lock this nut just apply behind the nut and allow 24 hours to dry.
to remove oil you can use spray brake cleaner.


im glad you seated the pto clutch gear deep...I did not remove my back cover so I had no view like you do to make sure the gear was fully seated...I just rocked it around with a long bar via the shaft hole until it quit rocking. (if you blow up the photo you can see 6 distinct clutch engagement lines on the splines)

In all it looks as if your doing well for being a first timer inside a LS Koren tractor.....its vary hard to be inside one with zero tranny school.......all the assembly is very much like doing a card stacking game...one wrong move and the whole thing crumbles. LOL. or for that matter disassembly is like Janga game....yank the wrong block and down it comes.

 

[bones1]

I received the rest of the parts yesterday and messed with it a little tonight. It's ready to go back together. Here are some pictures , let me know if something looks wrong please. I will go back and read this whole post again.

 

[spokane 1]

I received the rest of the parts yesterday and messed with it a little tonight. It's ready to go back together. Here are some pictures , let me know if something looks wrong please. I will go back and read this whole post again.

View attachment 510379

View attachment 510380

View attachment 510381

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View attachment 510383

yep something wrong.. it appears the pto gear is tilted this has to be seated fully past 6 interior clutches.

your overshift get a gold medal......its loaded perfectly with grease holding the syncro. are the flat bar detentes underneath and will the unit hand shift into reverse simply by hand?

is the shaft nut walked back to the OEM shadow line? the top shaft is blocking my view. You can allow about 20-30 thousands slop .until the assembly.

and i don't see a black felt marker line on the F-R shiftier rod to aid your assembly of the shiftier fork once it slides on at full assembly.

i can see a OEM factory line but if you assembly and slide the fork up to far..your screwed. try to draw 2 lines....one for edge placement at the front and 1 for hole angle. its very hard to see down there once its assembled.


the next thing.....is assembly never go 100 miles a hour.....crap can bind up a break if you go to fast.......marry up the two halves and slowly roll down the nuts..
if there is any bind stop.....something is wrong.

you remember all the instructions for the fork ... this fork has to hand held and guided onto the shaft while the fork fingers are in the groves in the over shift both at the same time... this op takes 2-3 people. push shove the tranny center it and hold the fork all at the same time....

once the 2 half's are married and 2 stud nuts are rolled down with a few inch lbs....stop and roll all shafts and try all the gears...by hand..... it should shift easily and with no hang ups..other than shafts or over shift being off 1/2 spline.... one should be able to roll the shafts and hand shift all 4 speed gears...

and the F-R shifter should work flawlessly with a little roll of the back wheels to get off the half spline. You can partial drive the pin in the hole for the fork at this test.

then try the PTO interior shaft should hand roll (you may need a water pump pier and rag to turn it)... any hang up here means something is wrong at that pto gear...its not deep enough.

(hanging out front of the shuttle is 2 shafts) the tiny interior shaft is the PTO constant drive shaft. the outside much larger is shuttle driveshaft. (the outer drive shaft drives all the shuttle shafts.)

ill wait for your diagnosis......but so far just 2 things you need to do for sure.

 

[spokane 1]

You should remove that blade of grass...inside the shuttle. this op needs to be clean clean.......check all the drain plug magnet... for shreds of metal. shoot that sucker clean with brake cleaner.

Like the Idea of the pin drivers for centering devices. I used 2 snap-on pinch bars.

Good Job Bones...your on track to a quick repair.....the only other mess is if your replacing the clutch the tractor guy supply's no centering device. This all has to be done by eye. (I stabbed in my shuttle into the clutch before it was married to the back axle to center it)

 

[bones1]

I will double check that pto hub, you're, right it looks cocked. And mark the shift fork positions as you recommend. I didn't see a shadow line on that nut but will look again tomorrow. The clutch setup I installed less than a month ago then split it again the next week for the gears. I made a clutch alignment tool out of an old lisle universal clutch pilot tool and a socket that fit in disc splines real snug. Worked perfectly. Thanks a million for all the help you have given me and I'll see if I can get this installed by mid week if I can round up some help before the weekend.