Loader Replacing Tilt cylinder rod

[DieselBound]

I blew out one of my tilt cylinder rods on my NX's KL6010 loader: I won't go into how it happened, but, suffice it to say, it was something that I shouldn't have been doing! The rod is broken (it bent and then broke), in which case there's the top piece of the rod broken off inside the cylinder.

Since Kioti lists the rods separately (part numbers for every piece of the cylinders) I'm contemplating repairing it myself rather than buying a complete new cylinder.

Has anyone went this route?

I suspect that I should disassemble first to look for signs of other damaged parts.

 

[LouNY]

I would be worried that the piston would have tweaked the cylinder when the rod bent enough to break.
I broke one on an Oliver with a loader when the bucket caught and stopped the tractor (fortunately it was a run away).

 

[DieselBound]

Lou, yes, good point. I might not be able to visually detect any deformity. Maybe defer to a shop? I'm getting a price quote on an entire cylinder and will look to weigh the options.

 

[DieselBound]

For posterity, here's a picture of the carnage:

 

[SGreene]

Bummer Diesel. Anytime I break a cylinder rod I always check the bore. As LouNY stated you're looking for deformation. You can shine a light down the bore and look for distortion but a bore micrometer is a better route to go. At a minimum you'll want to repack the piston. Have fun getting the nut off! A good machine shop should be able to make you another rod for much cheaper than what a Kioti replacement will be. In fact, a whole new cylinder from a local machine shop will be cheaper than Kioti.

 

[DieselBound]

Yeah, I suppose a generic cylinder might be another option. With that in mind, can anyone tell me what the specs are on these cylinders? (I'm still waiting on a price quote from Kioti; I recall shelling out about $700 for a new boom cylinder for my B7800 after it blew out a seal [over 7 years ago] and I didn't have time to wait to have it repaired; I subsequently got the blown out one repaired for $200 [still have it as a spare and will probably never need to use it!])

Glad it's not one of the boom cylinders.

A side question: Can I bypass the cylinder (connect up the hoses) so that I can use the tractor without worry over spewing hydraulic fluid? I'd like to be able to do a bit of PTO work.

 

[rback33]

As long as you don't hit the lever you can use the tractor as is.... you just have to deal with it being flopped out.

 

[DieselBound]

"flopped out," yeah, that's an apt description! The grapple is just dangling.

In order to get specs on the cylinder (retracted spec) I'd have to be able to operate the good side (and bypass the broken side).

 

[LouNY]

As a side note, I'm still using the rods out of my cylinders for raw material for projects and bits and pieces.
Mine was very good quality steel.
Good luck getting repaired for a decent price.

 

[rback33]

"flopped out," yeah, that's an apt description! The grapple is just dangling.

In order to get specs on the cylinder (retracted spec) I'd have to be able to operate the good side (and bypass the broken side).

I think I would pull the good cylinder off and use it for reference and then use a strap to hold the grapple where you want it. This will leak some oil, but you have to break the lines loose anyway on the bad cylinder. Get a helper and do it all manually and you have a shot at draining the oil into a bucket. I work for a loader manufacturer that used to supply Kioti. I know you are in a tough spot on the best way to fix it. When this happens it's often about as cheap to buy a cylinder. After you buy the rod AND seal kit that will be ruined taking the cylinder apart to repair it... If you are paying the dealer... you may as well buy the whole cylinder once labor is tacked on. If you can repair it yourself, I would buy the parts. My experience has also been that these companies are really proud of their parts.... the markup is nuts.

 

[DieselBound]

I think I would pull the good cylinder off and use it for reference and then use a strap to hold the grapple where you want it. This will leak some oil, but you have to break the lines loose anyway on the bad cylinder. Get a helper and do it all manually and you have a shot at draining the oil into a bucket. I work for a loader manufacturer that used to supply Kioti. I know you are in a tough spot on the best way to fix it. When this happens it's often about as cheap to buy a cylinder. After you buy the rod AND seal kit that will be ruined taking the cylinder apart to repair it... If you are paying the dealer... you may as well buy the whole cylinder once labor is tacked on. If you can repair it yourself, I would buy the parts. My experience has also been that these companies are really proud of their parts.... the markup is nuts.

Really appreciate the input.

I've removed the bad cylinder and I'll also remove the good one. I'm capping the hoses and ports (on the cylinder), so little in the way of fluid getting dumped on the ground.

Lots of measurements to consider with these things! (I'll let the professionals review for possible matches.)

If anything, I've learned enough that I think that I could likely feel confident in doing a seal repair. This repair, however, has some unknowns in it: I may have the tubes checked and if they're OK I might then look to (if cost effective) rebuild to have a spare on hand.

 

[DieselBound]

I'm almost back in operation.

Had a local shop build a new rod and put it all back together with new seals. I brought them the good cylinder for proper measurements. Opening up and then putting together the good cylinder added about 1/2 hour: I have the measurements (had them make me a copy of their drawing), so should I break another rod I can save 1/2 hour of shop time and my time for removing and reinstalling the [good] cylinder.

I figure I saved about $125. Not a lot, but even if there was zero savings I'd still probably go this route as the shop is great: they know how to do customer service (my dealer is poor at, and my patience with trying to help them improve is running out).

Waiting on a new linkage assembly (original one is tweaked and I'd rather not risk it) and I'll put it all back together.

 

[Threepoint]

I'm almost back in operation.

Had a local shop build a new rod and put it all back together with new seals. I brought them the good cylinder for proper measurements. Opening up and then putting together the good cylinder added about 1/2 hour: I have the measurements (had them make me a copy of their drawing), so should I break another rod I can save 1/2 hour of shop time and my time for removing and reinstalling the [good] cylinder.

I figure I saved about $125. Not a lot, but even if there was zero savings I'd still probably go this route as the shop is great: they know how to do customer service (my dealer is poor at, and my patience with trying to help them improve is running out).

Waiting on a new linkage assembly (original one is tweaked and I'd rather not risk it) and I'll put it all back together.

DieselBound, glad to hear this is working out for you.

BTW, mind saying how the damage occurred in the first place? If only so I'll know what never to do?

 

[DieselBound]

Threepoint, I can only speculate what caused it as what I was doing when I noticed I had a problem (fluid pouring out!) wouldn't have been responsible for the damage, though it might have been the straw that broke the camel's back. Just prior to this operation I was trying to, using my grapple, dislodge a huge piece of tree trunk that was at the front and bottom of a pile (placed there with an excavator, though the excavator's lift capacity is only about 10% more than the NX and KL0610 loader). Trunk was odd shaped, a bit thick in height and I couldn't readily get under it (grapple opening) so I tried coming at if from the top. Going from the top I was, essentially, over-extending and driving a bit to get the grapple down and over the trunk. I suspect that this is what ended up bending the cylinder rod and then when I gave up on that operation I suspect that while adjusting the tilt the thing likely broke, only to fully eject bits with my following, light-duty operation.

Bottom line: DON'T push hard with full tilt! Lots of broken cylinders from back-dragging from what I've read, but same applies to going forward. In my case there's a fair bit more leverage with the long tines on the grapple.

When talking to the folks at the shop, who didn't think I merited being on any list of big screw-ups, showed me a twisted up rod from some Ford tractor that an operator had the bucket down scooping on concrete and hit an edge (of another section of concrete)- turned that rod (different metal) into a snake, a nice "S" pattern.

 

[Threepoint]

Threepoint, I can only speculate what caused it as what I was doing when I noticed I had a problem (fluid pouring out!) wouldn't have been responsible for the damage, though it might have been the straw that broke the camel's back. Just prior to this operation I was trying to, using my grapple, dislodge a huge piece of tree trunk that was at the front and bottom of a pile (placed there with an excavator, though the excavator's lift capacity is only about 10% more than the NX and KL0610 loader). Trunk was odd shaped, a bit thick in height and I couldn't readily get under it (grapple opening) so I tried coming at if from the top. Going from the top I was, essentially, over-extending and driving a bit to get the grapple down and over the trunk. I suspect that this is what ended up bending the cylinder rod and then when I gave up on that operation I suspect that while adjusting the tilt the thing likely broke, only to fully eject bits with my following, light-duty operation.

Bottom line: DON'T push hard with full tilt! Lots of broken cylinders from back-dragging from what I've read, but same applies to going forward. In my case there's a fair bit more leverage with the long tines on the grapple.

When talking to the folks at the shop, who didn't think I merited being on any list of big screw-ups, showed me a twisted up rod from some Ford tractor that an operator had the bucket down scooping on concrete and hit an edge (of another section of concrete)- turned that rod (different metal) into a snake, a nice "S" pattern.

Thanks for sharing this. I'm no engineer, but I agree with the folks at the shop. I can see myself doing something like this. With these heavier and more powerful CUTs, it's easy to underestimate the additional forces on the loader components due to inertia when the whole tractor is moving, either forward or in reverse. E.g., trying to dislodge a big stump with the bucket or grapple, or pulling a big broken limb out of a tree by backing up. I cringe when I think of all the things I've done or tried to do over the years with my 26 y/o B2150 and its FEL. Nothing short of abuse, actually. Except for bending the top of the bucket from misuse of a center slip hook, I guess I got away with it because the tractor is light. Shortly after I got it, a construction manager commented: "Know the limits of your machine." That made an impression on me, for sure, but for me it was kind of like saying: "Always do the right thing." I found myself always pushing to find what the limits were! :laughing: I'm much more careful with my newer tractors, even though the loaders are much more powerful and capable. Also, seeing the experience of other TBN members over the last four years has made me a wiser and more cautious operator!

 

[ruffdog]

It is a common problem when back dragging fully curled down as there is little cylinder overlap.

https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/mahindra-owning-operating/369004-broke-tilt-cylinder-rod-bent.html

Messick's "fastest way to break your loader" video:

How NOT to back drag with a loader! | TMT - YouTube

 

[DieselBound]

Aside from the cylinder seal blow-out, my B7800 has been indestructible. I've back-drug with the bucket curled (tilt fulling extended) even while lifting the front wheels! I've bounced the tractor with the bucket levered on something. Other than paint scrapes and some bent sheet metal, nothing is twisted of with issue: I've run it now for about 1,100 hours (over 1,800 total hours). If only everything else were built like this B7800: I won't part with this tractor!

rufdog, I look forward to watching those videos (bandwidth constrained right now).

 

[rback33]

Threepoint, I can only speculate what caused it as what I was doing when I noticed I had a problem (fluid pouring out!) wouldn't have been responsible for the damage, though it might have been the straw that broke the camel's back. Just prior to this operation I was trying to, using my grapple, dislodge a huge piece of tree trunk that was at the front and bottom of a pile (placed there with an excavator, though the excavator's lift capacity is only about 10% more than the NX and KL0610 loader). Trunk was odd shaped, a bit thick in height and I couldn't readily get under it (grapple opening) so I tried coming at if from the top. Going from the top I was, essentially, over-extending and driving a bit to get the grapple down and over the trunk. I suspect that this is what ended up bending the cylinder rod and then when I gave up on that operation I suspect that while adjusting the tilt the thing likely broke, only to fully eject bits with my following, light-duty operation.

Bottom line: DON'T push hard with full tilt! Lots of broken cylinders from back-dragging from what I've read, but same applies to going forward. In my case there's a fair bit more leverage with the long tines on the grapple.

When talking to the folks at the shop, who didn't think I merited being on any list of big screw-ups, showed me a twisted up rod from some Ford tractor that an operator had the bucket down scooping on concrete and hit an edge (of another section of concrete)- turned that rod (different metal) into a snake, a nice "S" pattern.

I once heard about a guy that tried to shove his pallet forks in the ground vertically, side by side to dig a trench by driving forward. You can guess how that worked out with the leverage of the forks...

 

[DieselBound]

On my Kioti I once stuffed my forks straight down trying to see if I could push myself up and back (was stuck). Ha, ha! Didn't work! Sank those puppies 4' into ground.

 

[4570Man]

I’ve about given up on having rods put back in cylinders. The last time I did that it ended up costing me more than the high priced Kubota cylinder. I think buying 2 generic cylinders and a can of orange paint would be cheaper. I wouldn’t feel good about just using a generic cylinder on one side unless it was an exact replacement. On the event that it probably isn’t using the same one on both sides would be better.