Roofing discussion!!!

[TnAndy]

So you posted to say your part in this discussion is to not dwell on it. Awesome!!! )

Like an Amazon review I read once that said "I have nothing to say about this product"....ahahhaaaaaaaaaa...people are a hoot !

 

[ovrszd]

Like an Amazon review I read once that said "I have nothing to say about this product"....ahahhaaaaaaaaaa...people are a hoot !

Yes they are.

 

[EddieWalker]

In my opinion, the most corrupt, criminal, dishonest and unscrupulous people in the building trades are foundation repair guys. Roofers are a close second. Of the dozens of roofing companies in my area, there is only one that I trust. I've done dozens and dozens of jobs fixing what they did wrong, and that's only the jobs that I accepted, some are so bad that the only option was to tear it off and do it again.

Mueller is a metal building company that manufactures and sells all their own products. They are very good. When I talked to them about putting metal over shingles and their warranty, I was told that there had to be an air gap between the metal and the shingles. Wood purlins are a must. 1x4's would be the minimum, but for a better finish, 2x4's are better.

If I was hiring a roofer to install metal to my roof, I would insist on a complete tear out of all roofing materials, flashing, paper, and vents. Then I would want a complete inspection of the decking. It's truly amazing how many houses have shingles over huge voids in their roof that are nailed to just the felt paper. Then I would want brand new paper, or even better, a synthetic underpayment and then install the metal over that with brand new flashing and vents.

 

[Diggin It]

^^^ That's the way you turn a $5,000.00 job into a $20,000.00 job.

 

[dieselscout80]

I bit unrelated, but how slick are metal roofs when walking on them? In my case if a put metal on it would be on a 4/12 pitch roof.

 

[Diggin It]

EXTREMELY slippery. I can't stress that enough. I can walk fairly easily on shingles. I can't stand up straight on metal. The contractors can, but they're a long younger and more limber than I. It's not as bad when new, fresh and clean. But not long after as it collects dust, pollen and whatever else is in our 'clean, fresh' air, it gets a whole lot slicker.

I guess it depends on your personal skills and abilities, but I won't even try it. I bought a pair of rubberized kneepads to be able to move around that way. I also bought a climbing harness kit to help stay in place while I add more panels on my shed (no shingles, just open space below).

 

[EddieWalker]

I bit unrelated, but how slick are metal roofs when walking on them? In my case if a put metal on it would be on a 4/12 pitch roof.

4:12 is pretty easy to walk on. 5:12 gets kind of iffy, and anything steeper is going to require a rope to hold onto.

Soft sneakers grip metal better then anything else. Make sure the roof is dry and you didn't just walk across wet grass. Same thing for dust, if your shoes have a layer of dust on them, 5:12 is going to give you issues. 4:12 has never been an issue for me.

 

[EddieWalker]

^^^ That's the way you turn a $5,000.00 job into a $20,000.00 job.

No it's not. The job costs what it costs to do it right.

If it was a $20,000 job having it all done correctly, then doing it for $5,000 means cutting corners, reusing old and worn materials and having to do it over again because of years of leaks and failures.

With roofs, there is one way of doing it right, and dozens of ways to do it cheaper that end up costing more down the road.

 

[Diggin It]

^^ That's like saying a $5,000.00 or less car won't get you around to do local errands, you MUST have a $50,000.00 luxury SUV for even the most basic of tasks. Not everybody is made of money and can afford not to be frugal. Some of live in the real world.

 

[EddieWalker]

No it's not and your comparison is silly.

 

[ovrszd]

Yeah DigginIt, you missed the mark with that comparison.

Let's say your $5K car needs a new engine. You purchase an engine. You install it with the old serpentine belt because a new one costs $20. Instead of buying new oil and filter, you just use the old oil and filter from your dead engine. Same with Air Filter and Spark Plugs. Rather than install new exhaust gaskets, just bolt it together without them. And Antifreeze, it's highly overrated, just use water.

After all not everybody is made of money and can afford to not be frugal. Some of us live in the real world.

 

[4570Man]

I don’t know why you’d tar paper over the shingles at all. Strip out the roof with 1 or 2x4s and put the metal over that.

 

[4570Man]

^^^ That's the way you turn a $5,000.00 job into a $20,000.00 job.

Maybe from 5k to $7500 and it’s no doubt the best way. It definitely wouldn’t be a 4x increase. But you can pretty quickly identify major rotten places by walking on the roof or looking on the bottom so it’s probably not a worthwhile expense.

 

[Gregster613]

I'm not a roofer at all, but was recently talking to a roofer about some issues with my roof and asked him about how he goes about fixing leaks if I would have him shingle over top of my current shingles (ie..double shingle layer) and asked how does the paper stay flat? He said they don't use another layer of paper, that it's just a water barrier and the current paper/shingles on the roof act as the barrier now. IE..just place a fresh layer of shingles on and it's "supposedly" good to go. I decided not to shingle over but have the entire thing redone, but that's the answer I got.
Nothing to do with the OP question of tin over shingles I know, but thought I'd tell what the roofer told me when I asked something similar.

 

[3gunr]

A good roofing crew can strip a roof in 4 or 5 hrs i doubt it would cost that much more . the dumpster and disposal being part of that cost.

 

[Steppenwolfe]

^^^ That's the way you turn a $5,000.00 job into a $20,000.00 job.

Nah... It's called doing it right. Cheap is always cheap, and can never be made right. I'll call Eddie as my first witness...

 

[stingray1]

I don稚 know why you壇 tar paper over the shingles at all. Strip out the roof with 1 or 2x4s and put the metal over that.

The tar paper is a buffer,it is supposed to keep the shingles from rubbing a hole in the tin. The better way is do as you suggest and the right way would be to remove the shingles.

 

[TnAndy]

One reason for stripping a roof with 1x or 2x is to give the screws something to actually hold onto. You run the typical 1.5" screw into a shingle and then into an OSB decking and you ain't got much holding power.

I've seen a LOT of metal roof where they installed them over 1/2"- 7/16" OSB (which ought to never get on a roof to begin with IMHO) and after a few years, there are a lot of screws sticking up 1/4-1/2" or more because they simply wouldn't hold in that crap.

 

[MossRoad]

I guess the thing to do would be to look up metal roofing manufacturers and see what they recommend on how to install it. From what I've seen over the years, I'd be surprised to see any that recommend them laid flat on existing shingles with tar paper over them. Pretty sure they all recommend air gap so any condensation can run out and air can circulate.

 

[TnAndy]

^^^ That's the way you turn a $5,000.00 job into a $20,000.00 job.

Or one could simply have aluminized, or rubberized, paint sprayed on the existing shingles for $1500....2 coats for $2200 "while we're here"...

That work for ya ?

Neighbor of mine does lot of fairly crappy work on his place/machinery, and it always saying " A poor man has poor ways" as justification for not spending what it takes to do it right. One day I looked at him re-doing something for the 3rd or 4th time and said "Did it ever occur to you that it might just be the reverse....that poor ways CAUSES your poorness, having spent MORE money to fix it several times ?"