Big ditto on that, I'd say the way it works is fail safe. The only danger from an engine running away is that the engine consumes itself. So walk down to the local bar and wait for it to sieze or run out of fuel. When I'm pulling a hay wagon down the street around here, if that engine stops I can almost guarantee some yahoo is going to rear end me.
SAFETY!!! Couldn't turn tractor Off! Anyone experience this?
- Thread starter jgheck
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Big ditto on that, I'd say the way it works is fail safe. The only danger from an engine running away is that the engine consumes itself. So walk down to the local bar and wait for it to sieze or run out of fuel. When I'm pulling a hay wagon down the street around here, if that engine stops I can almost guarantee some yahoo is going to rear end me.
slowzuki
Elite Member
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2003
- Messages
- 4,100
- Location
- New Brunswick, Canada
- Tractor
- Kubota L5030 HSTC, MF 5455, Kubota M120, Allis Chalmers 7010
Hard to do it with the tractor just sitting there. Sometimes it will just go into relief instead of stalling.
corey9212
Platinum Member
slowzuki said:
Just sitting there it is very hard to stall, I have never had it go into relief when using the pto. If something makes the pto stop spinning it plainly stalls out the tractor.
slowzuki
Elite Member
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2003
- Messages
- 4,100
- Location
- New Brunswick, Canada
- Tractor
- Kubota L5030 HSTC, MF 5455, Kubota M120, Allis Chalmers 7010
BobRip
Elite Member
These are good points. With the Power Trac you have no steering or brakes when the engine fails. It may safer to fail running.
I am not suggesting and never implied that there should be more safety switches. My concern was to have a way of shutting it down mechanically in an emergency. I would not want the engine to turn off because something electrical failed. I know how to fix this so I can always shut the engine down now if need be. LD1 in one of his posts told me where the mechanical shut off was located. It will be a very easy thing to put a cable or extend the lever so I can always use this to shut down the engine if needed.
JoeL4330
Platinum Member
I believe you did exactly the right thing by blocking the air intake...that has been st'd emergency shut down for diesels for many years (incl. one of my MBs) ...if you think you'll need to do this regularly, you can install a (sturdy) damper in the air intake path ...examine it after each use as it takes quite a strain.
Fuel shut-off is (IMHO) a less good option ...takes a while and as pointed out there are alternative fuels/paths (like your crankcase)...and, is a pain to prime to restart, depending...
The excellent discussion about the fact that the normal shutdown is powered (!) suggests that messing with electrons in your situation is a waste of time (unless you are going to jump bat to other side of relay/solenoid.)
So, (ultimately) quick thinking on your part to go for the air.
Fuel shut-off is (IMHO) a less good option ...takes a while and as pointed out there are alternative fuels/paths (like your crankcase)...and, is a pain to prime to restart, depending...
The excellent discussion about the fact that the normal shutdown is powered (!) suggests that messing with electrons in your situation is a waste of time (unless you are going to jump bat to other side of relay/solenoid.)
So, (ultimately) quick thinking on your part to go for the air.
EE_Bota
Veteran Member
The BX line has strictly hydraulic steering. I think without engine power, the steering wheel doesn't do anything at all.
We are both EE's, and I'm betting we could design it either way. But I'd have to know all the constraints to know which way to design it. I think there is a thread in this forum where I described one type and its wiring, and a different member described the other type and its wiring. We were trying to help a fellow member out...distinguishing a solenoid problem from a keyswitch problem.
corey9212
Platinum Member
EE_Bota said:
The steering wheel will still turn the wheels but you really have to put a lot of muscle behind it, like a truck without power steering.
I want to give an update on the problem I have had regarding not being able to shut the tractor off. When the 20 amp fuse was blown I could not turn the engine off. The only way I could turn the engine off was to disconnect the intake hose and block the air with my hand from entering the engine. I since learned from LD1 that you can turn off the engine by The fuel cutoff manual lever. It is NOT under the tractor AND not by the solenoid. It is on the injector pump itself. This was very helpful to me and should help others in the future. I took off the side panels and sure enough it is a mechanical lever and shuts the tractor down immediately.I will install a cable or lever to this in the future for emergency purposes. There is no easier way to shut this particular tractor down that I have found as of now. I will contact Kubota service again to relay this information.
In response to Corey 9212He asked if all the other fail safes worked after I replaced the fuse. The answer to that was NOthe only fail safes that worked were the Neutral lever and the speed control lever. They are both on the right side of the tractor/operator. Corey also suggested to engage the PTO and stand up to shut the tractor down. I tried that and that did not work. The fail safe switches on the left side of the tractor, the PTO and both seat safety switches were not working. I could start the tractor with those closed or open. I didn't even have to sit down on the seat for this. I could turn it off as long as the 20 amp fuse was good. So all the safety control switches on the left side of the tractor were not working.
Today I have taken off the Rops, wheels, fenders, and fuel tank to see if I could find the problem. All the switches themselves are working, but as mentioned they for some reason the switches on the left side of the tractor still allowed me to start the tractor even though they were disconnected. I opened up all the wire harnesses to those switches and could find nothing wrong. I traced the individual wires back to the instrument panel. None of these were shorted and seemed ok. I played with the connections on all the safety switches and I finally got the PTO switch to work correctly. The tractor now would not start with that switch open.
That was a step in the right direction. The tractor would still start though with the seat switches open. I do believe though that I have found the problem. It appears that the relay located under the dash in the upper right is bad. It is part #061700-3770 it is made by DENSO I have run ohm readings on this and it seems to be no good. I certainly hope this solves the problem. I had traced a wire from one of the seat safety switches to this relay. That is why I pulled the relay out and tested it.
Now all this started out because the HST light would stay on. The service man at the dealer did not know anything about this and didn't know where the HST switch was located. Well I finally got that answered in another post and want to share that information here, so others may learn something about their tractors if they have a similar problem.
I did receive an answer about the HST. I don't have the original post at this time and will find it later. I have in the past looked back while I was writing a response and then when I tried to get back to this page it was all erased. I have spent a lot of time writing this so I will give credit to the person that gave me this information later. He really made my life a lot easier. Here is what I found out. In the USA they don't put on the HST switch but they use the same harness. for some reason the light was still hooked up though in the panel. Not sure if that was a mistake or not as others that have BX23's say they don't have that light. The service manager at one of the Kubota dealerships near here did not know that either. I did call Kubota today and talked to the Assistant service Rep in Ohio. He confirmed that they don't install that switch in the USA Kubota's. He did not know if it was a pressure switch or a thermo switch. Not that it makes a big difference, since the switch is not in there. You can find this posting on another thread I started asking about the HST light that wouldn't turn off. The person that had that information will be in that posting and was very knowledgeable.
Thanks to all that helped on this problem. I have written this to help others that may run into this problem on their own tractors. It sure would have been helpful to me if I could have found any of this information when I did searches on here. This is a very valuable tool for us Newbies.
Re: BX23 HST light stays on. ???
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The HST light is not used on our N American marketed BX's. Theres no sendor installed on the HST to control it. Kubota apparantly used the same wireing harness for all their 00 & 30 series BX's hense the reason why it's there but stuffed up under the dash.
So why is it on? More than likely the control wire thats bundled under the seat w/the Aux Lighting wire is grounded. Theres 2 wires that are taped together directly under the seat, one is used for the rear Aux lighting option (hot when the key is turned on) and the other is for the HST warning light that our BX's don't use. If that HST wire gets grounded it will lite the lamp under the dash. If that "hot" aux light wire gets grounded it will blow the 20amp fuse and you will no longer be able to shut your BX down via the key switch. I see you have another post where your BX wouldn't shut down until you replaced that fuse.
I highly recommend that you inspect under your seat, look for and locate those 2 wire ends and make sure they aren't laying in a pool of water and/or grounded in some way.
Do a google search on "BX manual fuel injector pump shutdown" and there should be some instructions and pics that'll show where the manual fuel shutdown lever is located on a BX.
Good luck
Dave
__________________
BX23 w/60" MMM & thumb.
1966 Wheelhorse 856, Gear drive.
1966 Wheelhorse 876, HST drive.
w/50"sickle mower, 36" RDM, snow/grader plow, Alternator welder.
In response to Corey 9212He asked if all the other fail safes worked after I replaced the fuse. The answer to that was NOthe only fail safes that worked were the Neutral lever and the speed control lever. They are both on the right side of the tractor/operator. Corey also suggested to engage the PTO and stand up to shut the tractor down. I tried that and that did not work. The fail safe switches on the left side of the tractor, the PTO and both seat safety switches were not working. I could start the tractor with those closed or open. I didn't even have to sit down on the seat for this. I could turn it off as long as the 20 amp fuse was good. So all the safety control switches on the left side of the tractor were not working.
Today I have taken off the Rops, wheels, fenders, and fuel tank to see if I could find the problem. All the switches themselves are working, but as mentioned they for some reason the switches on the left side of the tractor still allowed me to start the tractor even though they were disconnected. I opened up all the wire harnesses to those switches and could find nothing wrong. I traced the individual wires back to the instrument panel. None of these were shorted and seemed ok. I played with the connections on all the safety switches and I finally got the PTO switch to work correctly. The tractor now would not start with that switch open.
That was a step in the right direction. The tractor would still start though with the seat switches open. I do believe though that I have found the problem. It appears that the relay located under the dash in the upper right is bad. It is part #061700-3770 it is made by DENSO I have run ohm readings on this and it seems to be no good. I certainly hope this solves the problem. I had traced a wire from one of the seat safety switches to this relay. That is why I pulled the relay out and tested it.
Now all this started out because the HST light would stay on. The service man at the dealer did not know anything about this and didn't know where the HST switch was located. Well I finally got that answered in another post and want to share that information here, so others may learn something about their tractors if they have a similar problem.
I did receive an answer about the HST. I don't have the original post at this time and will find it later. I have in the past looked back while I was writing a response and then when I tried to get back to this page it was all erased. I have spent a lot of time writing this so I will give credit to the person that gave me this information later. He really made my life a lot easier. Here is what I found out. In the USA they don't put on the HST switch but they use the same harness. for some reason the light was still hooked up though in the panel. Not sure if that was a mistake or not as others that have BX23's say they don't have that light. The service manager at one of the Kubota dealerships near here did not know that either. I did call Kubota today and talked to the Assistant service Rep in Ohio. He confirmed that they don't install that switch in the USA Kubota's. He did not know if it was a pressure switch or a thermo switch. Not that it makes a big difference, since the switch is not in there. You can find this posting on another thread I started asking about the HST light that wouldn't turn off. The person that had that information will be in that posting and was very knowledgeable.
Thanks to all that helped on this problem. I have written this to help others that may run into this problem on their own tractors. It sure would have been helpful to me if I could have found any of this information when I did searches on here. This is a very valuable tool for us Newbies.
Re: BX23 HST light stays on. ???
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The HST light is not used on our N American marketed BX's. Theres no sendor installed on the HST to control it. Kubota apparantly used the same wireing harness for all their 00 & 30 series BX's hense the reason why it's there but stuffed up under the dash.
So why is it on? More than likely the control wire thats bundled under the seat w/the Aux Lighting wire is grounded. Theres 2 wires that are taped together directly under the seat, one is used for the rear Aux lighting option (hot when the key is turned on) and the other is for the HST warning light that our BX's don't use. If that HST wire gets grounded it will lite the lamp under the dash. If that "hot" aux light wire gets grounded it will blow the 20amp fuse and you will no longer be able to shut your BX down via the key switch. I see you have another post where your BX wouldn't shut down until you replaced that fuse.
I highly recommend that you inspect under your seat, look for and locate those 2 wire ends and make sure they aren't laying in a pool of water and/or grounded in some way.
Do a google search on "BX manual fuel injector pump shutdown" and there should be some instructions and pics that'll show where the manual fuel shutdown lever is located on a BX.
Good luck
Dave
__________________
BX23 w/60" MMM & thumb.
1966 Wheelhorse 856, Gear drive.
1966 Wheelhorse 876, HST drive.
w/50"sickle mower, 36" RDM, snow/grader plow, Alternator welder.
