Share Pics of People Hauling or Towing Something Wrong

[Renze]

One thing many people that don't live here is the dramatic differences in the various parts of the country. Some of the roads around here are very similar to yours, houses and barns built on both sides of a horse trail which has grown into a road. It's hard to find a straight road in the Township that I live in.

I know, the same applies here, when moving from the old land into the "new" land.

The difference between Holland and North America is that American reclaimed prairie is above sea level

 

[WinterDeere]

I know, the same applies here, when moving from the old land into the "new" land.

The difference between Holland and North America is that American reclaimed prairie is above sea level

True. But much of urban Louisiana is below sea level.

The biggest difference is that we have individual states larger than any three European countries combined, and with geography more varied than the entire European continent. We have 9.8 million square kilometers, with France and Spain being among the largest in Europe both hovering around 0.5 million. The entirety of Holland is smaller than some of our individual urban areas, at 0.04 million square kilometers.

The difference in scale is so extreme, so vast... it's hardly worth even making comparisons. The thing I appreciate most about Europe is the history, very cool old roads and buildings, that we will just never have over here. But as to the land, America has Europe beat by every possible measure, there.

<-- has lived in both USA and Europe

 

[orezok]

I know, the same applies here, when moving from the old land into the "new" land.

The difference between Holland and North America is that American reclaimed prairie is above sea level

Once, a long time ago, the mid west was a large ocean.

During the Cretaceous there was a seaway that extended all the way from the Gulf of Mexico to the Arctic Ocean.

During earlier times, much of the midwest was sea bottom. This image shows the Central US during the Pennsylvanian at about 310 million years ago. It is based on the types of sediments of that age that geologists have found and described.

 

[bcp]

There was a story about a European family visiting the US. They were in New Orleans and planned to rent a car for the weekend to see the Grand Canyon, Yosemite, and Yellowstone.

Bruce

 

[WinterDeere]

There was a story about a European family visiting the US. They were in New Orleans and planned to rent a car for the weekend to see the Grand Canyon, Yosemite, and Yellowstone.

Bruce

This has been posted here before, but always worth repeating:

 

[Too many Kubotas]

....and when i see people buying an SUV, i always tell them they malinvested into a pointless vehicle, when it comes with 4x4 but doesnt have a trailer hitch.

Different worlds indeed. Here most people know better than to tow with a little SUV. What I've seen being towed in Europe, and especially in England, by small vehicles scared me.

Then again, I'm one of those who refuse to tow with a 1/2-ton pickup, feeling that they're too light and short, and also because the mechanical bits underneath are generally on the tiny side. Including the brakes.

Recently bought a used Dodge Durango, and whoever checked things off on the option list had included a receiver and brake control. It's hidden by a cover so it doesn't bother me, and could help if getting rear ended, but I wouldn't tow even an empty Harbor Freight trailer with it.

If something happens to my Ram 3500 (14,000 lb. GVWR) I'll most likely order a 4500, or maybe a 5500. And probably with the 204" wheelbase.

 

[WinterDeere]

Then again, I'm one of those who refuse to tow with a 1/2-ton pickup, feeling that they're too light and short, and also because the mechanical bits underneath are generally on the tiny side. Including the brakes.

I'll buck that trend. I'm not towing 10k dump trailers, but I do routinely tow a 7k lb. trailer with my 1/2 ton RAM. It was factory configured with proportional trailer brake controller, heavier rear springs, a high-ratio (3.93?) posi rear, and pretty stout hitch receiver. It also wears 10-ply rated LT tires, not the usual P-rated crap that most have on their 1/2 ton trucks.

I'm not pretending it's a replacement for a 3/4 ton, especially on brakes, but I'm not relying on the truck to stop the trailer anyway. My trailer has brakes on all axles (PA law), not just one axle like most factory trailers, and I maintain the brakes and wiring in good working order. I also test and adjust the gain on the trailer brakes every time I start a tow. For any one-time emergency stop, tire traction becomes the bigger limiting factor than brakes anyway, the 1500-series brakes will lock them up just as well as the HD brakes on the larger trucks for any one-time emergency stop.

Semi tractors pull trailers 3x their own weight at highway speeds, all day every day. I'm not one of these guys who believes he needs a truck heavier than his trailer, especially when I only do real heavy loads over local roads.

 

[Too many Kubotas]

Semi tractors pull trailers 3x their own weight at highway speeds, all day every day. I'm not one of these guys who believes he needs a truck heavier than his trailer, especially when I only do real heavy loads over local roads.

You're overlooking an important part in the tractor trailer scenario.

Driving an OTR tractor bobtail can be a less than pleasant experience from a stopping standpoint, but once there's a trailer on the back things change for the better.

Roughly half of the trailer weight is now on the drive tires, and a little of it added to the steer tires, so a 15K to 20K tractor effectively becomes a 35K to 40K vehicle pulling the remaining 20 or so thousand. If the trailer is loaded.

 

[KennyG]

I can understand not wanting to regularly pull a 10K fully loaded trailer with a 1/2 ton pickup, but a 7K trailer with brakes - no problem. My F150 is rated around 11K and when pulling a 7K trailer with brakes on both axles, you hardly notice it's there until you look in the mirror.

 

[ptsg]

A 4x4 Ford Ranger here in Europe gets 7700 lbs tow rating which max tow rating we can get for a light duty vehicle. A light duty is any vehicle up to 7700 lbs gross weight. Above that is heavy duty and requires the equivalent of a CDL.

For instance a 4x4 dual cab Ranger weights about 5500 lbs.

Does a F150 weight less than this Ranger that makes it less comfortable handling a 10k trailer?

 

[Too many Kubotas]

My F150 is rated around 11K and when pulling a 7K trailer with brakes on both axles, you hardly notice it's there until you look in the mirror.

Maybe I'm overly sensitive, but to me even an empty 18-foot trailer makes itself known behind my Ram 3500, which weighs around 9,500 lbs.

And that's not because I'm used to driving it without anything back there - on the contrary, that 18-footer is the least weight it ever pulls, and only three times since getting it in '17 has it not towed something.

Of course, just like I tried with a '14 Ram 1500 (once), I couldn't resist trying with the '21 when I got it. Same 16' trailer. It wasn't nearly as bad with the '21, but only if I somehow had to would I tow with it.

 

[Renze]

During the Cretaceous there was a seaway that extended all the way from the Gulf of Mexico to the Arctic Ocean.

I didnt know that.

I do know that theres an Indian legend about a ship in the desert. That comes from an era when explorers could sail from the bay of California all the way to the Salton sea.

Lake that predated Salton Sea came and went as the Colorado River changed course

Research into Lake Cahuilla shows how Southern California’s Salton Basin went from dry land to a huge freshwater lake.

www.kpbs.org

 

[Renze]

Different worlds indeed. Here most people know better than to tow with a little SUV. What I've seen being towed in Europe, and especially in England, by small vehicles scared me.

I once bought a tractor dumptrailer. Borrowed my neighbours SUV because it is legal to tow 3500kg. But never again, its a short wheelbase with soft suspension, we didnt drive faster than 70km before the tail began to wag the dog. I have pulled heavier loads with my V70 which has a longer wheelbase and a more advanced suspension (rear axle rollbars and better Nivomat shocks that pump themself up after a few bumps to restore ride height) at much higher speeds.
So i'd rather be illegal and safe, than legal and holding up traffic because i'm a hazard to other traffic if i got up to the speed limit...

Guys who had a short wheelbase Nissan Patrol (think alike a Jap Bronco) say the same thing, when they changed it to s long wheelbase Mercedes they towed much easier.

Then again, I'm one of those who refuse to tow with a 1/2-ton pickup, feeling that they're too light and short, and also because the mechanical bits underneath are generally on the tiny side. Including the brakes.

What we found is that a standard half ton, has a rear suspension tuned for comfort, geared towards the soccer mom who puts the sweaty gear in the back, or the weekend offroader who wants soft, long travel suspension to keep all fours in contact with the ground in difficult terrain.

What our customer found is that If you really want to tow with it, you need suspension upgrades on your half ton.

In America they only sell the Sprinter 2500 (3.5 ton GVW Sprinter 319 in Europe) and Sprinter 3500 (5 ton Sprinter 519 in Europe)
We also get the Sprinter 219 (which translates to Sprinter 1500 if it was sold in America) but that is a useless vehicle, with its single leaf suspension. Its too soft in the back to keep a trailer straight, and if you buy it as an extra long, extra wide van, its just dangerous to drive in heavy crosswinds.

For 5th wheel tractors we sometimes sold the 5 ton Sprinter with full air suspension. We put the 3 leaf suspension that came off it, under a 3.5 ton Sprinter which came off factory with only two... Boy that made a difference in body roll when pulling a 36ft curtainsider !

If something happens to my Ram 3500 (14,000 lb. GVWR) I'll most likely order a 4500, or maybe a 5500. And probably with the 204" wheelbase.

Wheelbase and suspension make a tow vehicle. Even if you dont utilize the load capacity of the heavy rear suspension, you need its stiffness to reduce body roll and make it tow smooth by preventing the movements of the trailer being transferred to the tow vehicle

The problem with 4x4 trucks is that you want a low roll stiffness to follow the contour of heavy terrain, yet you need stiff suspension to stop the movements of the trailer being transferred to the tow vehicle. You cant have both..

 

[Renze]

I can understand not wanting to regularly pull a 10K fully loaded trailer with a 1/2 ton pickup, but a 7K trailer with brakes - no problem. My F150 is rated around 11K and when pulling a 7K trailer with brakes on both axles, you hardly notice it's there until you look in the mirror.

Lots of Americans say they want a heavy tow vehicle or they feel being a passenger despite holding a steering wheel.
In Europe people think that when a trailer has brakes on only one axle, its because you didnt maintain it properly. That it came from the factory with only one brake axle, is unthinkable here.

In my time at the light trailer builder, we had a customer who bought a 5th wheel horsetrailer with a living in the front, from the USA. He couldnt get it road legal bevause the electric brakes didnt meet our brake retardation standards. So we had to yank all the Dexter stuff from underneath and install European axles with air brakes. Above 3.5 ton on the trailer axles, ABS is mandatory which in practice means air brakes because air brake systems have all the gear built in as standard.

So, i understand the US desire for heavy tow vehicles, if you get by with questionable electric brakes, sometimes on one axle.

 

[dodge man]

I’m posting these pictures to make sure I’m allowed to stay in the pickup ownership club.

 

[KennyG]

A 4x4 Ford Ranger here in Europe gets 7700 lbs tow rating which max tow rating we can get for a light duty vehicle. A light duty is any vehicle up to 7700 lbs gross weight. Above that is heavy duty and requires the equivalent of a CDL.

For instance a 4x4 dual cab Ranger weights about 5500 lbs.

Does a F150 weight less than this Ranger that makes it less comfortable handling a 10k trailer?

Your Rangers must be bigger than ours. US Rangers have an empty weight of less than 4500 lbs and have a 7500 lb towing capacity. My F-150 is about 5200 lbs empty with a 1900 lb load capacity and 11K towing rating. I wouldn't want to regularly tow 10K with it but it would be within the capability. It would require a weight distributing hitch, of course.

 

[ptsg]

Your Rangers must be bigger than ours. US Rangers have an empty weight of less than 4500 lbs and have a 7500 lb towing capacity. My F-150 is about 5200 lbs empty with a 1900 lb load capacity and 11K towing rating. I wouldn't want to regularly tow 10K with it but it would be within the capability. It would require a weight distributing hitch, of course.

Interesting. I thought for sure the F150 were heavier. The Ranger we have here can haul 2200 lbs on the bed.

Thanks for the info.

 

[Renze]

Your Rangers must be bigger than ours.

Our Rangers may actually be a Nissan Navara, jointly built in a Nissan factory in Spain..?

 

[Dftodd]

In the states, yes. A half ton truck is a ridiculous poser object, it doesnt have the suspension to tow anything useful, just like the 2.8 ton (gross) Sprinter we get in Europe (but you guys dont) even if you use it to just haul styrofoam, it still doesnt have enough suspension stability to stay on track in crosswinds.

My neighbour, a farrier, bought a HiLux to haul his 2.5 ton trailer day in, day out, 40.000km a year. A FWD VW van takes too much of a beating in the long run. Though that van would be a much more practical choice to keep that 80" TV out of the rain.

In America with its dirt cheap gas, city folks can afford pickup truck culture without having a need to haul anything

....and when i see people buying an SUV, i always tell them they malinvested into a pointless vehicle, when it comes with 4x4 but doesnt have a trailer hitch.

My 2016 Sierra 1500 has a 9,600lb towing capacity. If it had the 8 spd transmission, it would have had the 10,500lb towing capacity.

So far this year it's hauled a large children's playset, stone, lumber, pipe, tractor and implements, and firewood.

Most of the time it's used to commute back and fourth to work. But it gets used hard on occasion.

 

[Dftodd]

My $50k Tesla is AWD and has a trailer hitch.

Today my F-150 hauled me to the pharmacy, McDonalds, and picked up 3 gallons of gasoline for the lawnmower.

By and large the used trucks on dealer lots here have no scratches on the truck beds or signs a drawbar has disturbed the rust on the hitch receiver.

My truck came with the bed rhino lined. I've had all sorts of stuff in that bed. Stone, trash, barbed wire, scrap metal, etc....

I hit it with some degrease and the pressure washer at work, and it looks like it just came off the showroom floor.