Skidding Logs with tractor.

[Industrial Toys]

This is the first time I am hearing about the blade stabilizing the tractor. I always thought it was just a blade in case you needed it or would keep winched logs from going under the tractor. The fact that the winch pulls quite high up had totally escaped me.

Good to know.

 

[MF243RedTop]

But the 3PH does not really act like a wheelie bar on a dragster - there is no real mechanical block from the 3PH preventing a back flip? (That's a question, not a statement).

Not asking this to question the poster or cause conflict, but rather to accurately understand the dynamics on whether a blade on the 3PH will actually stop a back flip.

Yes... Once the 3ph tops out it will just sit there and spin...
But I wouldn't try it with smaller CUT/SCUTS, without the wider wheelbase...might still be chances of going over sideways.
I've pulled with mine...but puts a lot of leverage on front from the counterbalance...and not very versatile in tight spots in the woods.

 

[crazyal]

When I was clearing my lot I was giving away wood. I would cut it up into 4' lengths and anyone who wanted to come here could take it as is or cut it up into the size they wanted. My mother decided to help me out by telling a neighbor near her that I would sell rounds ready to be split. I did it but only once, since it was my mother, but even at roughly $100 a cord delivered it was a loss to me. It required me to do more cutting, loading into my dump truck, and the gas to drive there (3 trips for about 3 1/2 cords). That didn't include the loss of time that I could have been working on my lot. Since I didn't want to take the extra time stacking it to figure out how much was there I just loaded extra into the dump truck so I wouldn't short the guy. I figure 3 1/2 cords but it could have been 5 cords. Since then I just do firewood for myself and mother (she's in her upper 70s so she needs stuff split very small). I often see people around me who buy loads of logs and cut/ split it to sell but I can't see it being very profitable.

 

[FTG-05]

FTG-05 Any chance you live close to Maryville Tn? Thanks

No, sorry. I-65 near the AL/TN border.

 

[CoyPatton]

I have skidded a lot of logs from the bush using a 3pt receiver hitch similar to the picture in post #2, and a hook at the top link attachment point to hold the lifting chain..
You ALWAYS, ALWAYS skid with another chain to the tractor draw bar..

Our old woodsman neighbor estimated some of the logs were about the weight of the tractor.. Again... ALWAYS pull with the draw bar.. Only lift with the 3 point..

 

[CoyPatton]

Why not pull with the 3 point hitch?
Pulling from drawbar keeps both ends of log in the dirt. All of log in dirt actually, chain saw gets more dull, log more likely to snag a root or stump, log pulls harder, rear of tractor has less weight/traction to pull log.
I agree that you shouldn’t pull with 3 point (or 2 point) hitch with connection point raised higher than axle or tractor can do a backflip. I can see that when pulling with a boom pole, it’s almost impossible to pull from below axle, and flip danger increases.
...but aren’t tractor’s made for pulling with the 3 point hitch (plows for example)?

You missed the portion of LIFT WITH THE 3PH
The reason for pulling low is to keep all 4 tires on the ground.
Go find a farmer that has large ground engaging equipment (disc, land planes or others) these have hydraulic lift systems and are pulled by a drawbar not the 3PH.
You may still need front ballast pulling low, but you have at least kept the downward pulling force low.

 

[K5lwq]

Back when we farmed 12 rows at a time, every planter and cultivator was 3pt. I do agree with pulling from the draw bar for skidding logs.

 

[CoyPatton]

I always used a back blade on the 3 point turn your blade backwards hook your chain to the rear of the blade.mine had factory holes where you adjust the angle of the blade I used one of those holes with a clevis .you dont have to worry about flipping over backwards if the log catches something if your blade is a foot off the ground while skidding your front end will only raise about six inches before the blade will come down and hit the ground and once you get a few pulled out you can shove them out of the way with the blade being turned around backwards. I strongly recommend never skid a log off the draw bar or any kind of implement that wont cone down to contact the ground stopping you from going over backwards because it will happen in a split second you won't be fast enough to push in the clutch to stop it from going over I used this method for thirty years without one having a close call going over backwards

The only issue with your reasoning process is that few compact and utility size tractors have any down pressure on the 3PH, so when you tip the tractor for the rear blade to contact the ground, the blade may slow your tip or may not. This is the very reason that so many people think a trailer mover is a great item and find themselves in trouble when they have light tongue weight or a unsecured load shifts rearward.
Just go out to your empty 3PH and lift upward, most folks are shocked at how easily it lifts!

 

[CobyRupert]

You missed the portion of LIFT WITH THE 3PH
The reason for pulling low is to keep all 4 tires on the ground.
Go find a farmer that has large ground engaging equipment (disc, land planes or others) these have hydraulic lift systems and are pulled by a drawbar not the 3PH.
You may still need front ballast pulling low, but you have at least kept the downward pulling force low.

Then what is the “draft control” lever for the 3 point hitch for?

 

[deezler]

Then what is the “draft control” lever for the 3 point hitch for?

Isn't that just how fast it falls downward once you move your 3-pt control lever down?

 

[Richard]

FTG-05 Any chance you live close to Maryville Tn? Thanks

I just want to make sure I understand this.... you've been a member for 15 years and you just hit your 4th post?!!

(I live in Greenback! so Howdy Neighbor)

 

[John_Mc]

Then what is the “draft control” lever for the 3 point hitch for?

If your tractor has draft control... I've never seen it on a modern compact tractor. At any rate, Draft control is not the same as down pressure.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Then what is the é›»raft control lever for the 3 point hitch for?

Draft use to be an option on compact tractors, I've had them with it.

Draft is for ground engagement tools that are hooked on the 3 point, usually smaller tools by todays standards...

Let's use a plow for example, lets say you have the plow in the ground and set as the depth you want. When the tractor hits a tough spot like a clay knoll, the draft will lift the plow a little at a time to keep you going and when you clear the tough spot, it will lower the plow back to where you had it set.

That's a very simple explanation of how it works...

SR

 

[CobyRupert]

Yes, it was a redundant question (about draft control) regarding pulling with the 3 (or 2) Point Hitch. That’s what tractor are designed to do. I’ve seen many older “compact” tractors (e.g. 8N’s) that don’t even have a drawbar.
One can still pull low with a 3 (or 2) point hitch and keep the end of the log raised out of the mud, or otherwise dragging on the ground where it can snag on roots, rocks or stumps and bring everything to a sudden stop (or worse).

 

[WranglerX]

This is the first time I am hearing about the blade stabilizing the tractor. I always thought it was just a blade in case you needed it or would keep winched logs from going under the tractor. The fact that the winch pulls quite high up had totally escaped me.

Good to know.

Consider ..Pulling with a winch tractor is usually "stationary" dragging a log tractor is in motion and spinning wheels and hp/torque is what causes back flips...

Dale

 

[CoyPatton]

Yes, it was a redundant question (about draft control) regarding pulling with the 3 (or 2) Point Hitch. That’s what tractor are designed to do. I’ve seen many older “compact” tractors (e.g. 8N’s) that don’t even have a drawbar.
One can still pull low with a 3 (or 2) point hitch and keep the end of the log raised out of the mud, or otherwise dragging on the ground where it can snag on roots, rocks or stumps and bring everything to a sudden stop (or worse).

It is still not down pressure! And with plows, front ballast is a must! Also note you are talking about a ground engaging implement of relatively small size and you are lifting and pulling a resisting load. You use grapefruit to justify your apple example. Talk about a stretch!

 

[CalG]

Well

It's a good thing I didn't drive up to buy the Igland 3501 yesterday. The dealer doesn't have any, and won't have any till after Christmas.

So is it A Fransgard 3507, or a 3004? Two of each in stock, and they have a $150 rebate! ;-) Or "wait till Chrstmas.........?

 

[John_Mc]

Consider ..Pulling with a winch tractor is usually "stationary" dragging a log tractor is in motion and spinning wheels and hp/torque is what causes back flips...

Dale

This is what a lot of people miss about flipping a tractor over backwards. It's not so much the pull itself tipping the tractor (if it was, the wheelie motion would stop once the rear end of the tractor lowered close enough to the ground that the vector of the pull was now coming from below the center of the wheel.)

The flip comes from when the tractor is in gear and pulling and something happens to stop it from moving forward, such as what you are dragging jams on a stump and locks up, preventing the tractor from moving forward. There are two not so dangerous possible outcomes: the rear wheels will break traction and spin, or the engine will stall. The dangerous possible outcome is that the tractor keeps running and has the power/torque to keep applying torque to the rear wheels, and the wheels have enough traction that they don't slip. If the wheels can't move over the ground or slip on the ground, that motion from the turning engine is going somewhere. The only place for that motion to go is lifting the front of the tractor.

It happens faster than the operator might think, and the shock factor can tend to cause a momentary freeze in their reactions. Hopefully, they recover before really bad things happen. Being prepared for it and keeping that possibility in mind goes a long way toward reacting in time and properly.


Winching the logs in with a 3 pt hitch logging winch carries almost no risk of flipping the tractor over backwards during normal, proper winching operations: the engine is not applying torque to the wheels during this operation. It's when the logs are actually being skidded (towed) behind the tractor that the danger presents itself. (If you are winching at too great a side-angle, it is possible to pull the tractor over sideways, or damage the 3 pt hitch.)

 

[John_Mc]

Draft use to be an option on compact tractors, I've had them with it.

Draft is for ground engagement tools that are hooked on the 3 point, usually smaller tools by todays standards...

Let's use a plow for example, lets say you have the plow in the ground and set as the depth you want. When the tractor hits a tough spot like a clay knoll, the draft will lift the plow a little at a time to keep you going and when you clear the tough spot, it will lower the plow back to where you had it set.

That's a very simple explanation of how it works...

SR

That's a good description of draft control. That same function can also for to help keep your plow at a constant depth when plowing in hilly or uneven terrain: without draft control, then the front wheels go up a rise, that would tend to drive the plow in deeper. As the front wheels crested the hill and started back down, it would tend to lift the plow, making for a shallower cut. (This is something those of us who have used a box blade or rear blade on uneven terrain are probably familiar with). Draft control will adjust to keep the amount of drag constant. If the soil conditions are consistent (no big rocks or no sudden shift to hard-packed clay from soft loam), the plow depth from the surface will remain constant.

 

[Gordon Gould]

This is what a lot of people miss about flipping a tractor over backwards. It's not so much the pull itself tipping the tractor (if it was, the wheelie motion would stop once the rear end of the tractor lowered close enough to the ground that the vector of the pull was now coming from below the center of the wheel.)

The flip comes from when the tractor is in gear and pulling and something happens to stop it from moving forward, such as what you are dragging jams on a stump and locks up, preventing the tractor from moving forward. There are two not so dangerous possible outcomes: the rear wheels will break traction and spin, or the engine will stall. The dangerous possible outcome is that the tractor keeps running and has the power/torque to keep applying torque to the rear wheels, and the wheels have enough traction that they don't slip. If the wheels can't move over the ground or slip on the ground, that motion from the turning engine is going somewhere. The only place for that motion to go is lifting the front of the tractor.

It happens faster than the operator might think, and the shock factor can tend to cause a momentary freeze in their reactions. Hopefully, they recover before really bad things happen. Being prepared for it and keeping that possibility in mind goes a long way toward reacting in time and properly.


Winching the logs in with a 3 pt hitch logging winch carries almost no risk of flipping the tractor over backwards during normal, proper winching operations: the engine is not applying torque to the wheels during this operation. It's when the logs are actually being skidded (towed) behind the tractor that the danger presents itself. (If you are winching at too great a side-angle, it is possible to pull the tractor over sideways, or damage the 3 pt hitch.)

Very good description of the cause of back flips John. To me that is the very reason that there is a strong argument that pulling a log from the 3ph with the butt end off the ground can be, or even generally is, safer than dragging the log from the draw bar on the ground with the butt digging in making a furrow just begging to catch on stuff.

gg