Skidding winch - need bigger tractor?

[Dead Horse]

rbargeron, takes a big man to do that...............

you ok in my book, son!


and that tractor clutch is fooked!


Also, FWIW, I can understand the winch jerking a tractor around some, specially with a hang up. How some ever, some basic fundamental rules apply!

First, your lanyard needs to be long enough such that you are well off to the side of your tractor when winching.

Second, watch the cable as it feeds into the top of the winch, NOT the log. You will be able to respond much faster with clutch control if you keep your eyes trained on the winch head.

Third, If you have "raised up" or nearly tipped over" your tractor while winching, you have NOT set the winch up properly. It will NOT do that, CANNOT do that if set up properly. The physics are all wrong.

Pull straight back (90 degrees) from the winch frame. Use a block if you cannot get the tractor angle right.

Larger farmi's have a movable pully mounted lower on the frame which significantly changes the direction of force, basically driving the winch frame into the ground. It is there for a purpose..... using it results in the force being applied to pulling on the lower links and pushing on the top link, rather than pulling on the top link, using the lower links and feet of the winch frame as a fulcrum..

Picture of said pully on a farmi 601, it is mjust below the farmi name. It is movable with pin holes on the center spine of the winch frame. The heavier the pull, the lower you mount the pully.

It is important to be sure you have a robust top link, in any case, wether tension or compression forces are at work.

 

[rbargeron]

...........First, your lanyard needs to be long enough......... Second, watch the cable NOT the log..........Third,set the winch up properly......be sure you have a robust top link.

Words to live by - especially the lanyad thing.

I'm way too old to be your son. BTW that 601 looks like one I traded to a guy in upstate NY a few years ago. It would lift a 90hp Deutz. Take care, Dick B

 

[Dead Horse]

Words to live by. Glad the scab stayed on your ulcer. I'm way too old to be your son. BTW that 601 looks like one I traded to a guy in upstate NY a few years ago. Take care, Dick B

Could be the same one!. I bought it from a guy near lake Placid. It needed a complete rebuild but that was about $150 bucks in bearings. It pulls like a locomotive, now.........

And set up right, it will NOT lift a Hesston 100hp, even with the FEL dismounted. Wit a heavy pull you use the down pully and the physics will not allow it to do that. The leverage is just all wrong. Plus, I run the trqactor at 1000 RPMs. There is absoutely ZERO need to run the tractor RPMs any higher than peak torque. On that Hesston, peak torque is 1500 RPMs, and I have not needed it, even with a pull of three very large beech trees up a steep slope.

Like I have advised...... it is ALL in technique.

and "son" is a term of endearment. Sorry it didn't sit right with ya.

 

[Baby Grand]

I just got schooled in winchology - read the thread with Bob Mayer's comments. Cut & pasted that to a Word doc for future reference. Thanks for pointing me to that golden nugget, rbargeron. Also enjoyed all the learnin' from this thread - it motivated me to pull the WSM and study how the PTO driveline and clutch are configured. I don't have a winch, yet, but some day ... some day ...

-Jim

 

[rbargeron]

Could be the same one!. I bought it from a guy near lake Placid. ........ set up right, it will NOT lift a Hesston...

the guy I bought it from said it lifted his Deutz, maybe he was using the top pulley.........other identifying features: the plow edge had a gentle convex bend, and the shroud on the lower pulley was bent out. I pulled some big softwood logs - then a friend used it a few months before I traded it for a snow blower.

Jim, Bob Mayer knows his stuff - he's is a consulting forester in Indiana who I believe advises state agencies and land owners, small and big.

 

[Dead Horse]

the guy I bought it from said it lifted his Deutz, maybe he was using the top pulley.........other identifying features: the plow edge had a gentle convex bend, and the shroud on the lower pulley was bent out. I pulled some big softwood logs - then a friend used it a few months before I traded it for a snow blower.

Jim, Bob Mayer knows his stuff - he's is a consulting forester in Indiana who I believe advises state agencies and land owners, small and big.

Likely the same unit. I fixed the lower pully shroud, replaced the PTO shaft (which was junk) and put new input shaft and thrust bearings in it. I was happy with the price I paid for it, but had I known how bad the bearings were in it, I would have perhaps looked for a better price. When they let go, what was left had obviously had a tough last few years.

It turns out that replacing the bearings in these units is not really a hard job at all. The toughest part is removing the spool with a whole coil of cable on it....... putting it back on takes a bit of technique too.

You have any idea how old it is?

Like I posted earlier, with the new bearing in it, it pulls like a locomotive. Using the lower snatch block properly, it just tries to dig the dozer blade in deeper. Me and my hired hand did several up hill pulls with it yesterday..... big honking beech and a heavy old poplar that was about to blow over.

Last fall, before I rebuilt it, I pulled a 60 foot poplar up a steep rocky bank. The butt of the tree was 26 inches across. I just split that old sucker up this afternoon. Man, that is junk fire wood, but hey, it was down. No point in wasting it.

The bearings finally gave out a few weeks ago when I pulled a big Deere loader out of the mud. I guess 25,000# was just a tad too much for the old bearings! Ha! I got the loader out, though and did not stand my tractor up!

 

[taborekle]

You can very easily double (or more) the pulling power of any winch by the technique used to attach the pull cable.

If the winch cable runs out to the load (tree) and is attached directly to the load, then the pull (winch) capability is direct (single).

If the winch cable runs out to a block attached to the tree, and returns to the tractor for attachment, then the pull capability of the winch is doubled.

I've seen several advertisements for log skid winches that sell as a part of the winch a block and cable for attachment of the block to the tree for exactly this purpose.

Of course, you're going to get only half the cable length using this method. If you need a longer run for a difficult tree location, consider a separate extension cable that attaches to the tree, and runs back towards the tractor, and attach the block to the end of the extension cable.

Hope that helps.

 

[rbargeron]

................You have any idea how old it is?..................

No idea about age - Farmi could probably tell from the S/N. We posted about this winch back when you were buying it. Sorry you got stuck with failed bearings. The rest of us owners apparently used them up. Still $150 isn't bad considering what this unit will do. Take care, Dick B

 

[Larry Caldwell]

I have seen a picture of a differential case on a Kubota torn in half by a 3-point mounted skidding winch. The top link mount ripped right off the tractor, taking half the casting with it. As I remember, it was an L4830. More horsepower may not be your solution.

 

[Adiredneck]

I have seen a picture of a differential case on a Kubota torn in half by a 3-point mounted skidding winch. The top link mount ripped right off the tractor, taking half the casting with it. As I remember, it was an L4830. More horsepower may not be your solution.

Makes me wonder if a spring cushioned top link would help. I know when I pull the cable out to hook up a log with mine, it pulls much easier by unhooking from the bottom pulley. It's really easy to forget to hook it back to the bottom pulley, which will raise the front wheels of ttactor up & put some serious stress on the 3rd link.

I have gotten in the habit of putting the pull rope somewhere on the lower pulley so that I have to visually see the pulley not hooked up to the cable before I get ready to do a pull. It helps.

 

[Dead Horse]

That is using the old noggin!

I would love to know the real story behind the butt being pulled out of that Kubota.....

I bet there was a shock load involved.

 

[EE_Bota]

That is using the old noggin!

I would love to know the real story behind the butt being pulled out of that Kubota.....

I bet there was a shock load involved.

Also, if you look closely at the picture, the lift piston is pushing on a lever that exerts rotational force on the shaft which rotates the lift arms to raise the lift. There is a force outward on that shaft, which combines with the outward force from the top link.

 

[rt9313]

I have a JL304 which I bought use about 18 years back
And have been using for a TSI project on my land. I am cutting red oak that are 18 to 34 in on the stump and skid them in 24 to 34 ft long with no problem. I had a Boomer 40 hp which worked good for skidding but didn’t have enough lift to stack the after cutting into 8 and 10 ft sticks so I upgraded to a Workmaster 50. I also used to this on a Kubota 30 hp which skidded just fine, although we were cutting 12 to 26 aspen. On the Workmaster I run the pto at 1200 to 1400 which the pto speed is around 300 rpm. I know they say to run the pto at 540 but that is faster than I like while skidding. While using the Boomer I would run it at an idle rpm which worked fine and the Workmaster would do fine at an idle but I run it faster to have longer between the darn regen. My thoughts are more power may not fix your situation

 

[CalG]

as recently posted.

IF the load stalls the drive then use mechanical advantage.

Spool out that wire rope and haul on a small drum! That can easily change the pulling force by a factor of two.

Use a pulley on the log load and bring the rope back to a nearby tree. Let the tree pull half the log load.

Looking for deficiencies in the winch or tractor is a fools mission!

Unless the tractor engine is not stalling. You used the terms "pto is stalling" They are NOT the same.

 

[dstig1]

Wow. Thread is 15 yrs old. Tractor long sold. Eventually determined that the PTO clutch was weak from the PO somehow abusing it. The next guy used it for several years with a chipper and eventually the chipper would stall too easy so he decided to sell the chipper rather than repair the PTO clutch as it was like $5k to do that and instead bought a decent sized stand alone chipper.

But way to wake the dead!

 

[rt9313]

About 17 years back I bought a used JL 304 and have been using it since, used it on 30, 40 and 50 hp tractors. The winch worked great on all 3 tractors. I am currently cutting red oak logs that vary from 16 in to 36 in on the stump, I usually cut the logs to 24 or 36 ft depending on how it measures out for logs. I run my tractor at 1200 to 1400 rpm which the pto speed is about 300 rpm. I know they recommend 540 but that is too fast for my liking. Knowing how it performed on the 30 hp tractors it is my opinion hp may not be your issue. I hope things work out for you and I am anxious to hear how it goes. Good luck.

 

[bsekf]

I have an old,old Farmi and need to adjust the clutch. Hopefully I won't have to replace it. I use it on a 47hp compact. Never Never haul a skid with a log on the tower, always use the bar with slots for the choker chain. With the winch lifted it puts the tower pulley 6 + feet in the air and it is very easy to tip the tractor over backwards or sideways. Never haul a skid across a slope, always up or down. A snatch block is you best friend when winching a log! And use that lower pulley.

How do I adjust the clutch, it needs to be tightened.

 

[CalG]

Wow. Thread is 15 yrs old. Tractor long sold. Eventually determined that the PTO clutch was weak from the PO somehow abusing it. The next guy used it for several years with a chipper and eventually the chipper would stall too easy so he decided to sell the chipper rather than repair the PTO clutch as it was like $5k to do that and instead bought a decent sized stand alone chipper.

But way to wake the dead!

the information on the topic never dies.

 

[bsekf]

Has anybody cleaned up the drum and pulleys and used a 3/8" synthetic winch rope instead of wire rope?

 

[JJT]

Has anybody cleaned up the drum and pulleys and used a 3/8" synthetic winch rope instead of wire rope?

For what I do synthetic wouldn't hold up, too much rubbing on the ground, rocks and brush. I use my log winch a fair amount, it's 20 years old and still on the original wire rope.