Slope Question

[JWR]

Land is full of 8-degree slopes with a few steeper ones at 12-degrees.

If I take my time and am not an idiot, would that slope scare any of you?

Answer: NO, not at all.

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I encounter steep ground and variations of it every year bush hogging. Decades doing that.

Several comments:
1) I disagree with SDT. Leave the bucket on and run with it low but tip up to avoid snags. You are better ballasted that way and the bucket lowers your c.g. a little. AND traction is better. Mine is definitely more stable with the bucket ON.

2) As Scotty pointed out in a previous post there is a lot of confusion in degrees versus % slope. Here is a graph to clarify that. Being an old helicopter pilot you have seen similar charts before I imagine.

View attachment 550845

This is a high 30's% slope near 40%.



This is a 40% slope.






3) With your 8 to 12 degree slopes there is very little worry unless you stumble into a big hole with the lower rear wheel, etc. 12 degrees is about a 20% slope which is still pretty mild. I mow 40% slopes many times every season without any problems. My limit is about 50%. Anything over 50% does not need to be mowed by me. A 40% slope can safely be mowed with my MF2660 tractor going across it but a 50% slope is too much cross wise for me. My rear tires are set 8' apart at outer edges and it is a low profile (lower c.g.) tractor. I hasten to say I ALWAYS mow steep slopes up/down unless I am boxed in to some momentary cross slope situation. There is no such thing as too much safety margin.

By the way, I know where every ground hog hole and sink hole is in my farm having been over every inch of it since I was in grade school. You need to get very familiar with yours.

4) You may want to hunt up a You Tube video from Penn State Univ. They run a remote control Ford tractor around a hillside every August in their Ag Progress Show and purposely upset it by hitting a hole with the low side rear wheel. I've watched it in person a couple of times and it is impressive.

5) I know a lot of Orange folks don't like me saying this, but the Japanese have thick skulls -- they just cannot seem to understand that many of us operate on steep ground. Most Kubota mid size tractors (40-70hp size) simply do not have the ability to spread the rear wheels apart that they should have. My pasture renter uses an M6040 with 6" spacers on each side and were very uncomfortable until those were installed. The same is true with an L3040 they use. These picts show the spacers installed.
and

6) Unless you have some compelling reason not to, absolutely run those rear wheels of yours out as far as you possibly can. Try it and gain your own experience of course. If you have any discomfort, add 6" spacers on each side (like the M6040 above) and that will give you a huge margin of comfort on steep hillsides.

 

[prichard]

Good question. My salesman is out w/ family issues and I'm not sure.

(And thank you for the other information. I have a lot to learn.)

View attachment 550833View attachment 550834

Covered in manual https://kubota.ca/getmedia/a025170d...M5-091,-M5-111-CAB-WSM-EN-3B79199712?ext=.pdf

 

[zoltanthegypsy]

Just thinking out loud here... I only have experience with my little BX24. Looking at it there's a fair bit of steel in the loader arms and mounts - that sit high on the tractor. My _guess_ is that leaving the loader on and low would be about a wash re C of G. Maybe with something in it held low it would help. Maybe.

I'll toss in something learned the hard way: the hydraulics can support rather more than they can lift. Dug a big stump for a neighbor and couldn't quite lift it, but could partially lift it w/chain attached. Dragged it over a nearly invisible change in grade and almost went over when the stump was suddenly in the air. Too soon old and too late smart...

 

[prichard]

I don't have much for slopes and have loader on for stumps, etc.

May not be relevant to slopes but I have some deep offs of a couple feet and the loader down low saved my bacon a couple times.

Also I was mowing a field I hadn't mowed before. I discovered a ditch in the middle of it. I started almost level with the loader skidding on the ground on the other side.

 

[davidcbaker]

You might want to think about a 'tiltmeter' like they have in the site store. I bought one because I have a lot of hills and uneven areas on my property.View attachment 550786View attachment 550787

Excellent. Ordered. And a set of adult diapers in case.

 

[RaydaKub]

I have a BX2200, which is much smaller, lighter, shorter, and narrower. If I park on the side of a modest slope, I can push on the ROPS and the tractor will lean downhill. I have a lot of respect for working on slopes!

Ron

Agreed completely. My tires are loaded and I can make it lean, but I can't lift a rear tire off the ground. However if I put on the fel and ballast that with 50 lbs of wheel weights and 275 lbs on the 3pt, the FEL still transfers weight forward and I can push of the ROPS and lift a rear wheel with one hand.

What this means practically is that while the fel can be a good emergency brake if things go badly, it is a huge contribution to making things go bad in the first place.

 

[jajiu]

Excellent. Ordered. And a set of adult diapers in case.

:laughing:

 

[JWR]

Agreed completely. My tires are loaded and I can make it lean, but I can't lift a rear tire off the ground. However if I put on the fel and ballast that with 50 lbs of wheel weights and 275 lbs on the 3pt, the FEL still transfers weight forward and I can push of the ROPS and lift a rear wheel with one hand.

What this means practically is that while the fel can be a good emergency brake if things go badly, it is a huge contribution to making things go bad in the first place.

Ray, I respectfully disagree. Your B2230 (and mine) bear little or no resemblance to the M5-111 pulling a 15 ft batwing ! His M5 is over 100hp and over 3 tons. The 15ft batwing is probably a ton by itself. Our little 2200's are ants versus elephants by comparison. The geometry is drastically different. My BX2200 is very easy to get tipsy by lifting too much weight in the bucket, holding it too high with weight in it, and various other dumb things we probably all have done once in a while. My fat butt weight is a significant portion of the total keeping the rear wheels down at times. That's with miniature machines where our body weight is a significant fraction in calculations. Not the case with a 3 tons plus M5. The orig poster (with FEL on it) gets better traction with more weight on the front, lowers his c.g. slightly, makes his whole rig more stable.

I see no circumstance in which his FEL is going to make anything "go bad in the first place" with the large tractor.

 

[prichard]

Ray, I respectfully disagree. Your B2230 (and mine) bear little or no resemblance to the M5-111 pulling a 15 ft batwing ! His M5 is over 100hp and over 3 tons. The 15ft batwing is probably a ton by itself. Our little 2200's are ants versus elephants by comparison. The geometry is drastically different. My BX2200 is very easy to get tipsy by lifting too much weight in the bucket, holding it too high with weight in it, and various other dumb things we probably all have done once in a while. My fat butt weight is a significant portion of the total keeping the rear wheels down at times. That's with miniature machines where our body weight is a significant fraction in calculations. Not the case with a 3 tons plus M5. The orig poster (with FEL on it) gets better traction with more weight on the front, lowers his c.g. slightly, makes his whole rig more stable.

I see no circumstance in which his FEL is going to make anything "go bad in the first place" with the large tractor.

Thank you. I suspect most of us responding to this thread with scuts and cuts didn't stop to think how different a machine in that size is. I know I didn't.

 

[RaydaKub]

Ray, I respectfully disagree.

And that's your opinion. Every (modern) tractor out there is the same. They have 4 wheels in the 4 corners. Some might have duals. The weights and geometry are different, but the principles are the same. The FEL transfers weight forward. If that weren't happening, nobody would be talking about proper ballast for the tractor, and there are dozens of threads here about ballast.

I am not sure I've ever seen a FEL that lowers the COG to any significant amount. It might exist, but most have a significant portion of the frame and loader arms above the existing COG. The bucket weight would need to be more than the arms.

Whether the slope is problematic for your tractor, your ballast, your width, and yes, even your body weight, is another matter. If you draw these out on paper (and are as skilled with stick figures as I am ), the drawings will look the same.

 

[MHarryE]

Person who said not published for legal reasons is absolutely correct. At Caterpillar we test tipping angle on a tilt table but we don't publish because dynamic conditions cause most rollovers. I've investigated rollovers on some relatively flat places. One hit a boulder hidden in grass. Two had banks give way. One turned corner at high speed. In every case the slope on which they were working was less than half tipping angle.

 

[JWR]

Person who said not published for legal reasons is absolutely correct. At Caterpillar we test tipping angle on a tilt table but we don't publish because dynamic conditions cause most rollovers. I've investigated rollovers on some relatively flat places. One hit a boulder hidden in grass. Two had banks give way. One turned corner at high speed. In every case the slope on which they were working was less than half tipping angle.

Good point. Reality is dynamic, not static. Sitting on a hillside is one thing and mowing it is another ! I think all of the experienced yakkers in this thread who spoke of "What steepness they consider too much" to operate on and similar statements are inherently ALSO saying 1) that they are taking into account normal amounts of bumping and jumping around and 2) that they are very familiar with the slope and the ground they are mowing or else creep over it VERY slow the first time. I mentioned in an earlier post ground hog holes and sink holes as hazards. Let's add to that list the cow paths made along steep slopes that amount to "steps" if you are going up or down. Steep places on WV farms typically include those.

 

[jajiu]

There are a lot of good comments and suggestions out here, the one thing I go by is If I'm uncomfortable with the situation, I don't do it. If I start to do or go someplace on an angle, I go cautiously and if it becomes uncomfortable to me, I stop and carefully back out. My hand is always ready to drop the loader to the ground if necessary. One thing for sure is that if something out of expectation can happen, it will.

 

[davidcbaker]

There are a lot of good comments and suggestions out here, the one thing I go by is If I'm uncomfortable with the situation, I don't do it. If I start to do or go someplace on an angle, I go cautiously and if it becomes uncomfortable to me, I stop and carefully back out. My hand is always ready to drop the loader to the ground if necessary. One thing for sure is that if something out of expectation can happen, it will.

Yep. A lot of parallels between this and my era teaching motorcycle racing. Before I was completely relaxed and comfortable doing this, it took many years of scientific learning, knowing equipment, and knowing my limitations. The massive difference between what I was doing on this race track and a field is "controlled conditions"--I'm not going to have that. Thanks to all of you for the helpful comments.

 

[flusher]

I'm newer and have done what I could on the search side, scouring Youtube, etc., but still have a succinct (I hope) question. Manual doesn't seem to address this.

Equipment: Kubota M5-111 pulling LP 3615 (15 batwing). Tractor has wheel weights. LA1854 loader (could take it off if I need to). Rear wheels have not been widened. I haven't planned on filing tires, though I could.

Land is full of 8-degree slopes with a few steeper ones at 12-degrees.

If I take my time and am not an idiot, would that slope scare any of you?

Thanks!

Any potholes on your slopes? All you need to roll a tractor is to drop the downslope front wheel in a hole. I nearly rolled my 2005 Kubota B7510HST while scooping dirt with the FEL when the right front wheel dropped into a wheel rut. Be careful out there.

Good luck

 

[SDT]

Person who said not published for legal reasons is absolutely correct. At Caterpillar we test tipping angle on a tilt table but we don't publish because dynamic conditions cause most rollovers. I've investigated rollovers on some relatively flat places. One hit a boulder hidden in grass. Two had banks give way. One turned corner at high speed. In every case the slope on which they were working was less than half tipping angle.

Bingo, MHE.

Another not uncommon cause of rollovers is underinflated tubeless tires.

An underinflated tubeless tire on the downslope side can peel off of the rim. Of course, the downhill side of the tractor immediately drops the distance between the rim and the ground. Such circumstances usually happen upon steep slopes resulting in rollover.

Hitting a hidden obstacle with the uphill tire produces similar results.

SDT

 

[oosik]

I simply don't worry about SLOPE. The only slope on my 80 acres is 45 degrees and I DO NOT even go straight up it. There is a way around and that is how I go. Going horizontal on a slope says, at least, a couple things. I hope nothing lifts the high wheel(hidden rock) - - I hope the low wheel doesn't drop into some unseen hole/depression.

Going horizontal just is not worth the risk. And my rear tires are spread as wide as possible and filled with rim guard.

 

[rustyshakelford]

Ray, I respectfully disagree. Your B2230 (and mine) bear little or no resemblance to the M5-111 pulling a 15 ft batwing ! His M5 is over 100hp and over 3 tons. The 15ft batwing is probably a ton by itself. Our little 2200's are ants versus elephants by comparison. The geometry is drastically different. My BX2200 is very easy to get tipsy by lifting too much weight in the bucket, holding it too high with weight in it, and various other dumb things we probably all have done once in a while. My fat butt weight is a significant portion of the total keeping the rear wheels down at times. That's with miniature machines where our body weight is a significant fraction in calculations. Not the case with a 3 tons plus M5. The orig poster (with FEL on it) gets better traction with more weight on the front, lowers his c.g. slightly, makes his whole rig more stable.

I see no circumstance in which his FEL is going to make anything "go bad in the first place" with the large tractor.

I have a 100hp Deere and 15’ batwing. Tractor is around 5-6 tons with ballast and loader. Batwing is close to 5k lbs.

When I mow slopes then 4wd is absolutely used. Keep the loader very low and sometimes actually use the seatbelt. The batwing being so heavy helps don’t let it start sliding down the hill though

Brett

 

[goeduck]

You might want to think about a 'tiltmeter' like they have in the site store. I bought one because I have a lot of hills and uneven areas on my property

Looks very useful, I like that it is not electronic.

 

[goeduck]

I simply don't worry about SLOPE. The only slope on my 80 acres is 45 degrees and I DO NOT even go straight up it. There is a way around and that is how I go. Going horizontal on a slope says, at least, a couple things. I hope nothing lifts the high wheel(hidden rock) - - I hope the low wheel doesn't drop into some unseen hole/depression.

Going horizontal just is not worth the risk. And my rear tires are spread as wide as possible and filled with rim guard.

I took the backhoe off of my little B21 and wondered why it wanted to tip to the left side all the time even when I thought it would go on its front axle. Turns out the previous owner must have replaced one rear and did not fill it. The right rear has a little more tread and no fluid. It wants to tip to the left every chance it gets. I need to fill that tire, meanwhile it sure makes working with my larger L size backhoe feel much more stable (I always leave the backhoe on it). But yes, 45 degrees might was well be 90.