Smokin' in the boys room!

[RayH]

What a narrow perspective you non-smokers have. If the use of a legal product is allowed, why does the use of that product constitute rude behavior? Again, if you go in to an establishment where YOU know smoking is allowed, who's choice was that? Having made that choice, why then do you feel entitled to tell someone engaging in a legal and accepted behavior at that location that they are being rude to you?

In my little Podunk area of central PA there are sufficient places that are non-smoking that I do not feel there would be a real need for me to enter a place that allowed smoking if I did not desire to. But when I do enter those places, I accept the fact that I entered there of my own free choice. Just because I chose not to smoke when I am out at a restaurant or club with my wife and children does not mean that I have a right to impose that choice on everyone else.

I made no comment on the legality of smoking and I do think its rude even if its legal. Lots of legal things are rude. Smoking is rude because its an act that shows no consideration for other people who may be around. Smoking is a habit that does not contain itself to the user. It enters the lungs of those around, it gets in their cloths and hair, their nose, mouth and eyes. How much more rude can you get then to knowingly choose to contaminate the very air that people breath. Its about as rude as urinating in their water glass.
If you were sitting in a nice restaurant with your family and the guy at the next table leaned to the side and let a big greasy, smelly fart, you telling me you wouldnt think that was rude just because its legal? Thats a natural and beneficial act but you would still consider it rude. Why does it baffle you that I would think smoking, not natural or beneficial, is rude.

 

[Iowachild]

Interesting, equating inaction to stop the holocaust with anti smoking laws, a bit of a stretch for me!

I was in no way comparing anti-smoking laws with the holocaust!!! I was very much making the point of how a society gives up it's freemdom one law at a time. Bandybear states it very well.

Iowachild is right on the mark using Pastor Martin Niemöller poem to describe what is happening to our society today. We continue to see many of our freedoms eroded at the altar of political correctness. Tobacco is just one of the many fronts of which this assault is being waged. "Hate Speech" is another on of these areas. While I hope I do not get too political and get cut off, I see this as a political assault on the property rights of business owners. Once they get tobacco banned in private businesses, how long before the busybodies will be coming after people who have children in their homes and claim child abuse? Actually there is a movement to do just that.

And then we get into the area of what type of food you should and should not eat.

So if you do not speak up now against the government intrusion against business owners, who will speak up for you when the government is telling you you may not engage in a certain behavior.

It is inane laws like this that take the pleasure out of law enforcement.

Exactly what I feel!

Now if I was to be your neighbor and start raising pigs and spreading manure on my land (it is my land to do as I please, isn't it?) and the wind blew in your direction would you just accept it as my right or would you move? Or would you go to the government and report me?

Now Robert I was born and raised in the #1 hog producing state in the country. You ain't gonna get my goat with some fresh country air.

Quite the opposite, I never pushed for this law and didn't really care as it was a way of life. However, after seeing the affect this law has I do feel the rest of the country should follow suit as it improves the quality of life for everyone. People can go to public places and not worry about having to find non-smoking sections or worry about going to a crowded place with a lot of people are smoking and your eyes burn because of it.

And what makes you think I go barhopping? People use to smoke in restaurants or don't they do that where you are from? I have also gone to bars to eat dinner with friends as a lot of small towns don't have a Denny's or Bob Evans on every corner. The dining experience of eating dinner at a bar in PA is terrible compared to NY because PA still allows smoking in public places.

But since I don't smoke and don't enjoy breathing it in I should have to give up going to certain places instead of a smoker being told he can't light up every 15 minutes. Is it that hard for a lot of smokers to put the cigarette down for an hour or while you are in public gatherings?

I agree with you that resturants should be smoke free and the last several years I smoked it was very seldom that I smoked in a resturant and I never did in "family" type resturants where children were present. But I still have a problem with laws like this. I always wear my seatbelt in my vehicle , but I don't like a law that says I have to. What if someone decides no one should operate any tractor that doesn't have a ROPS? I'll bet there will be congressmen willing to make that law if say the insurance industry lobbied for it. Remember seatbelts started with only being required to be installed in the car. No one had to wear them. But as I said I wear my seatbelt. Because I feel it's safer, not because it's the law. I prefer education over laws.

BTW I was at the Seneca Allegeheny Casino a few months after I quit smoking. When I got home that night I couldn't believe how badly my clothes stank of cigarette smoke!

 

[Bandybear]

I made no comment on the legality of smoking and I do think its rude even if its legal. Lots of legal things are rude. Smoking is rude because its an act that shows no consideration for other people who may be around. Smoking is a habit that does not contain itself to the user. It enters the lungs of those around, it gets in their cloths and hair, their nose, mouth and eyes. How much more rude can you get then to knowingly choose to contaminate the very air that people breath. Its about as rude as urinating in their water glass.
If you were sitting in a nice restaurant with your family and the guy at the next table leaned to the side and let a big greasy, smelly fart, you telling me you wouldnt think that was rude just because its legal? Thats a natural and beneficial act but you would still consider it rude. Why does it baffle you that I would think smoking, not natural or beneficial, is rude.

Again, if you go in to an establishment where YOU know smoking is allowed, who's choice was that? Having made that choice, why then do you feel entitled to tell someone engaging in a legal and accepted behavior at that location that they are being rude to you?

When you CHOSE, of your own free will and accord, to enter the place where you knew smoking was allowed, yes, I believe you are the one being rude for getting nasty with the smokers. Until such time as the government takes over and monopolizes all eating establishments, you are the one with the power to decide whether or not to enter a place that allows smoking. Once you pass through their portals, you have given tacit approval to your fellow diners smoking in your presence.

 

[MikePA]

If either of examples you mentioned happend the solution is simple and it doesn't involve whining to the government to pass yet another law or being rude to anyone.

You walk up to the manager of the establishment, NOT the person smoking, and tell them what you don't like about their restaurant, how would you like to see it changed and tell them you won't be back until that happens. Simple. Guess what? If enough people do not like smoking in the restaurant, don't like the poor ventilation system, etc., the restaurant will make changes if it wants to stay in business.

There have been dozens of threads on TBN about 'city folks' who buy a farmette in the country, then don't like the smells (no I'm not talking about a pig farm), don't like the early morning roosters, tractors firing up, hay wagons traveling so slowly on the roads, etc. You should read the righteous indignation flow from the 'real farmers'.

"Why, what did they expect when they moved to the country?"

"What right do they have to dominate the local council and make changes?"

Tsk, tsk. Kind of like walking into a restaurant where smoking is allowed then whining about the smell of smoke or demanding laws be passed banning the practices you don't like. Afterall, what did you expect when you walked into a restaurant where smoking was allowed?

 

[RoyJackson]

Ahhhhhh...another topic soon to be closed for verbal abuse....think I'll have a smoke...

 

[Bandybear]

Ahhhhhh...another topic soon to be closed for verbal abuse....think I'll have a smoke...

I have a couple of nice stogies we can light up on my front porch (I promised the boss I would not smoke inside the house) to discuss other subjects.

 

[RayH]

Again, if you go in to an establishment where YOU know smoking is allowed, who's choice was that? Having made that choice, why then do you feel entitled to tell someone engaging in a legal and accepted behavior at that location that they are being rude to you?

When you CHOSE, of your own free will and accord, to enter the place where you knew smoking was allowed, yes, I believe you are the one being rude for getting nasty with the smokers. Until such time as the government takes over and monopolizes all eating establishments, you are the one with the power to decide whether or not to enter a place that allows smoking. Once you pass through their portals, you have given tacit approval to your fellow diners smoking in your presence.

Ive not said anything about anyones right to smoke. Ive only stated that its my opinion that its rude to smoke. I gave you reasons that I think its rude. Just because someone has the legal right to do something doesnt mean they arent rude for doing it. I remember an incident several years ago, way back before it was illegal to smoke in theatres. I was dating a girl that had a lung ailment and had to carry oxygen. She was very sensitive to smoke. Some guy in the theatre lit up during the movie, it was his legal right to do so, long story short, we ended up leaving the movie because he refused to put it out. The point is that the reason there are so many no smoking laws today is because the government needed to jump in because smokers thought they could do what they wanted, when they wanted with no regard for the people that share the same public spaces as they do. It didnt start with non smokers being rude to them, it started with them being rude to non smokers. I feel no compassion for smokers.
Heres my bottom line. People that smoke in public show a disregard for the well being of those around them so I dont feel a need to be nice or considerate to them. They are nuisance people that probabbly show the same regard for people in other aspects of their life. I dont know why they would expect anything more from me.

 

[RayH]

Bandybear,
Maybe you arent old enough to remember when it was legal to smoke anywhere. I can remember that. Would your aguement "if you dont like smoke, stay out of places that allow it" hold up back then? No, because that was everywhere. You couldnt go into a restuarant or a supermarket, or theatre without being subjected to smoke. Your aguement would have me never eating out, or shopping or seeing a movie. Try asking someone to put it out. What you generally get in return is "I can do it if I want and theres nothing you can do about it". This attitude is the reason why the government is regulating it now.

Edit; I just checked your profile. You probably are old enough to remember it. You know what Im talking about then.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

So the nice, courteous smokers motto is "if you don't like my smoke then leave". Friendly sort of folk.

Smokers say if I don't want to dine where they are dining then I have to leave. Why is it that they can't be kind enough to not smoke? It can't be because they don't realize their smoke bothers people otherwise there would be no such thing as no-smoking sections. They do it because they don't care about the other people around them.

Again, I know not all smokers are this way but the majority do not care where they light up and who is around them when they do. So I guess, if the smokers won't do the polite thing then laws have to be passed.

As a former police officer Bird do you think everyone would do what is right if it wasn't a law? Or if the town had too many bad people you should just leave? Why is it ok to have some laws but not others? This is before my time but you might remember when it was illegal to swear in front of a lady. Why would that have to be a law? Don't people know what is polite and not? So I guess some things need to be made law to enlighten people as to what is acceptable behavior. Smoking is something that is no longer acceptable public behavior much like public drunkeness. If you want to get drunk in your own home you are more then welcome to.

 

[shvl73]

Ahhhhhh...another topic soon to be closed for verbal abuse....think I'll have a smoke...

I'm suprised its still going!
I'd join you but instead of a smoke, I'll stick with a beer.