Smokin' in the boys room!

[Unclebuck257]

Farmwithjunk, you really ought to go back and read the other posts. UncleBuck has said he'd try to be polite and courteous, but then was responding to RayH who is just looking for some reason to be rude to smokers and feel justified. In other words, a strictly confrontational personality, and smokers just happen to be someone he feels safe confronting.

Farmerwithjunk,

Bird was 100% right in that most of what I have said was directed at RayH and people like him.

Please re-read Bird's post that I've quoted above. Then please re-read all of mine. Never once did I say I went into non smoking areas and caused any problems. Never once did I say I started a confrontation. My "peace", which I have as much right to expect as a non smoker when out with my wife in a restaurant, is always attained in the smoking section, minding my own business and enjoying life my way.

I've never seen a smoker go into a non-smoking section of a restaurant and try to smoke, or demand to be able to smoke, but so many times I've seen a non smoker, who didn't want to wait for a table in non smoking, demand to be seated in smoking and then start getting nasty with the smokers seated around him who were smoking. As I said in my first post, ask me nicely, because of your kids, or family and I'll put out my cigatette, but in my opinion, I owe nothing to two obnoxious, non smoking, adults who have no manners and start acting rude and making nasty comments about my wife and me smoking, loud enough for us to hear, while they are sitting in the smoking section. If you don't agree with how I feel, frankly I don't really care because I'm happy with who and what I am. You handle things your way and I'll handle them mine!

But, just so you know, there's never any direct confrontation either, because my friend, as you said, that would be a very bad situation. My wife and I have run into that situation enough times now, that we have learned to just tune it out. If it gets near "out of hand" I just walk up and talk to the manager and it's then their problem. Remember, we are sitting in the smoking section, so it's not my wife and me causing the problem. Usually the manager eliminates the problem and I have my "peace" back again.

I am a very courteous person generally and will be nice to anyone, but I refuse adamantly to be walked on, or pushed by the likes of non smokers like RayH. Even then, if he asked us nicely, I'd try to be considerate and put out my cigarette for him. Hope that clears it up for you and any misconceptions you had.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Farmerwithjunk,

Bird was 100% right in that most of what I have said was directed at RayH and people like him.

Please re-read Bird's post that I've quoted above. Then please re-read all of mine. Never once did I say I went into non smoking areas and caused any problems. Never once did I say I started a confrontation. My "peace", which I have as much right to expect as a non smoker when out with my wife in a restaurant, is always attained in the smoking section, minding my own business and enjoying life my way.

I've never seen a smoker go into a non-smoking section of a restaurant and try to smoke, or demand to be able to smoke, but so many times I've seen a non smoker, who didn't want to wait for a table in non smoking, demand to be seated in smoking and then start getting nasty with the smokers seated around him who were smoking. As I said in my first post, ask me nicely, because of your kids, or family and I'll put out my cigatette, but in my opinion, I owe nothing to two obnoxious, non smoking, adults who have no manners and start acting rude and making nasty comments about my wife and me smoking, loud enough for us to hear, while they are sitting in the smoking section. If you don't agree with how I feel, frankly I don't really care because I'm happy with who and what I am. You handle things your way and I'll handle them mine!

But, just so you know, there's never any direct confrontation either, because my friend, as you said, that would be a very bad situation. My wife and I have run into that situation enough times now, that we have learned to just tune it out. If it gets near "out of hand" I just walk up and talk to the manager and it's then their problem. Remember, we are sitting in the smoking section, so it's not my wife and me causing the problem. Usually the manager eliminates the problem and I have my "peace" back again.

I am a very courteous person generally and will be nice to anyone, but I refuse adamantly to be walked on, or pushed by the likes of non smokers like RayH. Even then, if he asked us nicely, I'd try to be considerate and put out my cigarette for him. Hope that clears it up for you and any misconceptions you had.

I've read all the post's in this thread. Yours too. I started it. I've kept up with it all the way to this point. My point of contention has been and still is, there has to be a better way to handle the issue than becoming confrontational, even if, ESPECIALLY IF, the "other guy" (non-smoker) is in the wrong. Escalating the arguement will only cause more damage to your side of the debate. Even if you should win the battle, argueing with the non smoker in a public setting like a restaraunt will only cause you to lose the war. In the end, by defending your right, you've set yourself up for losing rights in a future battle by creating a bad image in yet another audience. At that point, it doesn't matter if you THINK you've proven your point to Non Smoker or not, he wins in the long run. The damage is done. The point I'm TRYING to make is, it would probably serve you best to simply ignore the non smoker who's trying to draw you into a public confrontation, if you're sure that you are in the right. He can take it to the managment if he so desires. Let him look the fool if he's bound and determined.

Keep in mind I'm not on EITHER side in this issue. I'm more interested in how each side perceives the other and how each side deals with the other.

 

[Unclebuck257]

Farmerwithjunk,

I guess you and I just can't communicate to each other. Your last post is almost exactly what I had said in my last post. The only difference I see is how you and I may perceive things. To me, when a non-smoker causes a scene/problem in the specified smoking section of a restaurant, surrounded by nothing but smokers, it's not the people smoking that look like the fools and give the bad/fool image, but the non-smoker causing and creating the situation. Again though, if it continues for very long when I'm there, I'll go get the manager and let them deal with it for me, if a wait person hasn't already done so. That situation, in my opinion, doesn't make a smoker look bad at all. Just because I smoke doesn't mean I also like, will allow, or should have to allow, verbal abuse at any time, to be directed at my wife and myself. We smokers can't get any worse an image than we have already been falsely given and I honestly don't think our position can be hurt any more either.

Peace my friend and thanks for the honest disussion!

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Farmerwithjunk,

I guess you and I just can't communicate to each other. Your last post is almost exactly what I had said in my last post. The only difference I see is how you and I may perceive things. To me, when a non-smoker causes a scene/problem in the specified smoking section of a restaurant, surrounded by nothing but smokers, it's not the people smoking that look like the fools and give the bad/fool image, but the non-smoker causing and creating the situation. Again though, if it continues for very long when I'm there, I'll go get the manager and let them deal with it for me, if a wait person hasn't already done so. That situation, in my opinion, doesn't make a smoker look bad at all. Just because I smoke doesn't mean I also like, will allow, or should have to allow, verbal abuse at any time, to be directed at my wife and myself. We smokers can't get any worse an image than we have already been falsely given and I honestly don't think our position can be hurt any more either.

Peace my friend and thanks for the honest disussion!

First off, I'm still of the impression you and Bird misunderstood MY take on this from the beginning. I'm NOT "the enemy". I'm trying to be the devils advocate and let smokers know from a non smokers vantage point what it is that keeps doing more and more harm to your position.

I'll give it ONE MORE shot. Smoking has it's share of enemies. And just a few friends outside of actual smokers. That gives non smokers a sort of "moral high ground". A non smoker is at a distinct advantage with regards to their perceived image in an arguement over smoking in a restaraunt. All they need to do is get it started. Then it's simply a matter of playing victim. No matter what you say, no matter how you approach the issue, the smoker is perceived as the bad guy by a substancial majority.

As I've said, my wife and most of her family smoke. I've been smack dab in the middle of situation like we've been discussing. The Mrs or her family start smoking. Someone takes exception to it, even though she (they) were in a designated smoking area. If she (they...or ME when I get dragged into the fray) try to reason with the person, all eyes turn to the "bad guy" smoker as the one who started the rile in the first place.... EVEN THOUGH THEY WERE IN THE RIGHT. It's about image and perception. Facts don't even enter into it. And no amount of sweet talking, no amount of reasoning, and especially no amount of "getting even" will improve the situation. But ANY attempts to defend ones self will draw the ire of almost all the patrons in the restaraunt.

Best solution? Simply ignore the non smoker who is trying to draw attention to their "cause" provided you KNOW you're in the right. That keeps you out of the bad light as much as is still possible, and probably does more to "get even" with him than all the blowing smoke in his face, ect, that you WANT to do anyway.

The ol' SILENT TREATMENT. (That drives my wife out of her ever-lovin' MIND when we're having one of those husband/wife "debates")

I just can't bring myself to believe escalating a fight helps anyone, and it sure does more harm to who ever is perceived as the bad guy, again, even if the "bad guy" IS right.

I guess I just don't like to give my "opposition" the satisfaction of knowing they got under my skin in a situation like we're talking about.

I see through our exchange that you probably AREN'T as easily provoked as it appeared when you responded to RayH. And that's a GOOD thing in my book!

 

[Bird]

I'm still of the impression you and Bird misunderstood MY take on this from the beginning

But that's your mistaken impression; not ours. We understand and even agree with you, but there seems to be a problem getting you to understand that.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

But that's your mistaken impression; not ours. We understand and even agree with you, but there seems to be a problem getting you to understand that.

Uh... If I'm misunderstanding anything, it may be because, with the exception of a few of the most recent post's, I was repeatedly told I was wrong. And we did have a difference of opinion on HOW (when) to deal with "the situation".

But. If we're all smiles and in agreement, let's move on to something else.

Still raining in Texas?

 

[RoyJackson]

Time to close this one, do ya think?

I'll have a cigaret while working my IQ 200 (and obviously superior) brain whilst contemplating that...

Note the use of the term "whilst" rather then the more mundane "while". This proves my superiority, don't you think?

 

[Bird]

Still raining in Texas?

How about 3" to 4" an hour in north Ft. Worth? The TV news is all about the newest flooding going on at this time. The leading edge of the rain just got here about 15 minutes ago, but so far we're just getting an ordinary little rain shower; about .2" in the last 15 minutes. The southbound service road (Highland Village Exit) of I-35E was shut down today because Lake Lewisville continues to rise and the service road is now under water.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

How about 3" to 4" an hour in north Ft. Worth? The TV news is all about the newest flooding going on at this time. The leading edge of the rain just got here about 15 minutes ago, but so far we're just getting an ordinary little rain shower; about .2" in the last 15 minutes. The southbound service road (Highland Village Exit) of I-35E was shut down today because Lake Lewisville continues to rise and the service road is now under water.

And we were in the midst of drought conditions here less than 2 weeks ago. 8"+ under average, then 6"+ in 6 days, now back to dry again.

The pictures we're seeing on TV of the conditions in Texas look mighty bad. And that's just a picture. Hope things get better soon.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Time to close this one, do ya think?

I'll have a cigaret while working my IQ 200 (and obviously superior) brain whilst contemplating that...

Note the use of the term "whilst" rather then the more mundane "while". This proves my superiority, don't you think?

If ya say so Roy!

So whatta we gonna argu...er...discu....ah...DEBATE now?

Oh Roy?!?! About that NEW 1950 Deere. Here's what they looked like back in the day. 1950 "B". Tryin' hard to make it mine.