Back to the main supply for a min. When trimming the conduit stub down before gluing the LB on, I was very concerned about nicking or cutting the insulation on the 4-wire supply. So I made a 'shield' of sorts to slip down into the conduit. Simply cut a section of smaller diameter pipe lengthwise and positioned appropriately as I carefully cut around the conduit.
So I got a good deal on some trusses...
- Thread starter dholly
- Start date
- Views: 21747
Did have one small accident. Splashed purple primer on the new siding. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
Can says to use baby oil to remove, didn't work. Neither did paint thinner or nail polish remover. Any way to get this stuff off, or maybe that bush would look good there after all?
Can says to use baby oil to remove, didn't work. Neither did paint thinner or nail polish remover. Any way to get this stuff off, or maybe that bush would look good there after all?
Attachments
Farwell
Veteran Member
Been there done that and it is still the pretty purple color. Guess the stuff enters the pores of the siding and any thing that will remove it will also mark the vinyl. Suggestion, take a chunk of scrap siding put some of the purple primer on it, let it dry and try acetone, ether, lacquer thinner, methyl ethyl keytone, mineral spirits, etc. One of these may work but most will cut the top layer of your siding. If all else fails, contact the manufacturer, they may have an easy solution.
Farwell
Farwell
<font color="blue"> Any way to get this stuff off, or maybe that bush would look good there after all? </font>
I'd opt for the bush. It will look attractive as well as cover up the conduit and your "ooops".
I'd opt for the bush. It will look attractive as well as cover up the conduit and your "ooops".
Inspector507
Super Member
Sure glad I was not the one feeding from an LB into an LR /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Glad it worked for you though.
Glad it worked for you though.
mudcat
Platinum Member
I second the bush location. Just don't understand why you would use primer?
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Back to the main supply for a min. When trimming the conduit stub down before gluing the LB on, I was very concerned about nicking or cutting the insulation on the 4-wire supply. So I made a 'shield' of sorts to slip down into the conduit. Simply cut a section of smaller diameter pipe lengthwise and positioned appropriately as I carefully cut around the conduit. )</font>
I like that protection idea. In our house, all of the wire in the studs has conduit around it so that a wire isn't drilled or nailed into. Pretty neat idea to keep knuckleheads like me from killin' themselves!
I like that protection idea. In our house, all of the wire in the studs has conduit around it so that a wire isn't drilled or nailed into. Pretty neat idea to keep knuckleheads like me from killin' themselves!
Back on the job with good news: just got off the phone with the local inspection service co. - squeezed me right in, rough inspection in less than an hour! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
The bad news: when I explained what I needed, had done, etc., he said that I would need to BOND the neutral and grounds in the subpanel and add aground rod... even with the 4-wire feeder supply to the subpanel. This is EXACTLY what all the hoopla disagreement revolves around in a single circut subpanel application for a detached structure and is supposedly NOT CORRECT. WTH?!!
So, now what do I do? He says he is working off the 1999 NEC, but if the code has changed since and it has been determined that UN-bonded neutral is currently the best way with a 4-wire supply that's what I prefer to do. I told him I would print out the following reference, however, anything else I can discuss or point him to? I only got 20 mins before I head out! H-E-L-P!
Thx
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( per Inspector501 -
( Okay, I decided to post a reply to myself and try to clear up what the NEC® says about running power to a separate building as far as grounding/bonding.
(1) If you only run one branch circuit, and include a grounding conductor, no electrode or neutral bonding is required. But a connection to the neutral is not to be made.
(2) If you run a feeder to the building with no equipment grounding conductor, a grounding electrode must be installed and the neutral bonded to that electrode and the panel enclosure. This is provided you do not have any continous metallic paths back to the main building such as metal water/air lines, etc. And provided you do not have ground fault protection for EQUIPMENT. The average residential property will not have GFPE which is different than a GFCI
(3) If you run a feeder with an equipment grounding conductor, a grounding electrode must be installed at the building and connected to the grounding conductor in the feeder and to the enclosure.
All of this is in NEC® 250.32
)
For reference -
**** NEC ****
Reference NEC 250-32
Buildings or Structures Supplied by a Feeder or Branch Circuit.
This states that two options are allowed for a grounded system.
1) Run an equipment grounding conductor with the supply conductors. DO NOT use the bonding jumper in the electrical panel which ties the neutral (grounded conductor) to the ground.
2) When an equipment grounding conductor is NOT run with the supply conductors, AND no continuous metallic path exists between the systems, AND ground fault protection of equipment has not been installed on the common AC service; THEN, DO USE the bonding jumper at the panel.
**** NEC ****
per johnbilt -
( Note that NEC 250-50 states that all structures and buildings shall have a ground electrode system as described. The issue discussed above is how the bonding jumper is handled. Most residential applications are fed from one panel and therefore this issue is not raised. The neutral is tied to the grounding jumper at the main panel only and provides the required single bonding point. When outbuildings with a new panel are installed, the above issue dealt with in NEC 250-32. ) )</font>
The bad news: when I explained what I needed, had done, etc., he said that I would need to BOND the neutral and grounds in the subpanel and add aground rod... even with the 4-wire feeder supply to the subpanel. This is EXACTLY what all the hoopla disagreement revolves around in a single circut subpanel application for a detached structure and is supposedly NOT CORRECT. WTH?!!
So, now what do I do? He says he is working off the 1999 NEC, but if the code has changed since and it has been determined that UN-bonded neutral is currently the best way with a 4-wire supply that's what I prefer to do. I told him I would print out the following reference, however, anything else I can discuss or point him to? I only got 20 mins before I head out! H-E-L-P!
Thx
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( per Inspector501 -
( Okay, I decided to post a reply to myself and try to clear up what the NEC® says about running power to a separate building as far as grounding/bonding.
(1) If you only run one branch circuit, and include a grounding conductor, no electrode or neutral bonding is required. But a connection to the neutral is not to be made.
(2) If you run a feeder to the building with no equipment grounding conductor, a grounding electrode must be installed and the neutral bonded to that electrode and the panel enclosure. This is provided you do not have any continous metallic paths back to the main building such as metal water/air lines, etc. And provided you do not have ground fault protection for EQUIPMENT. The average residential property will not have GFPE which is different than a GFCI
(3) If you run a feeder with an equipment grounding conductor, a grounding electrode must be installed at the building and connected to the grounding conductor in the feeder and to the enclosure.
All of this is in NEC® 250.32
)
For reference -
**** NEC ****
Reference NEC 250-32
Buildings or Structures Supplied by a Feeder or Branch Circuit.
This states that two options are allowed for a grounded system.
1) Run an equipment grounding conductor with the supply conductors. DO NOT use the bonding jumper in the electrical panel which ties the neutral (grounded conductor) to the ground.
2) When an equipment grounding conductor is NOT run with the supply conductors, AND no continuous metallic path exists between the systems, AND ground fault protection of equipment has not been installed on the common AC service; THEN, DO USE the bonding jumper at the panel.
**** NEC ****
per johnbilt -
( Note that NEC 250-50 states that all structures and buildings shall have a ground electrode system as described. The issue discussed above is how the bonding jumper is handled. Most residential applications are fed from one panel and therefore this issue is not raised. The neutral is tied to the grounding jumper at the main panel only and provides the required single bonding point. When outbuildings with a new panel are installed, the above issue dealt with in NEC 250-32. ) )</font>
What about this synopsis of the change in 1999...
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( l Grounding for Two or More Buildings or Structures
NEC 250-32(b)(1) requires a separate equipment grounding conductor to be installed between buildings. The equipment grounding conductor must be run with the supply conductors and be connected to the structure disconnecting means and grounded to the grounding electrode system required by NEC 250-32(a).
NEC 250-32(b)(2) says that when an equipment grounding conductor is not installed, three specific conditions must be met. “Where (1) an equipment grounding conductor is not run with the supply to the building or structure, and <font color="red">(2) there are no continuous metallic paths bonded to the grounding system in both buildings or structures involved, </font> , and (3) ground-fault protection of equipment has not been installed on the common ac service, the grounded circuit conductor run with the supply to the building or structure shall be connected to the building or structure disconnecting means and to the grounding electrode(s) and shall be used for grounding or bonding of equipment, structures, or frames required to be grounded or bonded.”
Code-making Panel Five concludes there is no “...sound technical basis for knowingly permitting neutral current to return to the source on parallel paths...” <font color="red"> Bonded metallic paths that could create parallel paths with the supply conductors may include: water lines, gas lines, shielded coaxial cable, telephone wiring, or other power wiring. </font> )</font>
I have shielded coaxial cable, tel and eventually a copper water line so IMO I need the UN-bonded neutrals?!
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( l Grounding for Two or More Buildings or Structures
NEC 250-32(b)(1) requires a separate equipment grounding conductor to be installed between buildings. The equipment grounding conductor must be run with the supply conductors and be connected to the structure disconnecting means and grounded to the grounding electrode system required by NEC 250-32(a).
NEC 250-32(b)(2) says that when an equipment grounding conductor is not installed, three specific conditions must be met. “Where (1) an equipment grounding conductor is not run with the supply to the building or structure, and <font color="red">(2) there are no continuous metallic paths bonded to the grounding system in both buildings or structures involved, </font> , and (3) ground-fault protection of equipment has not been installed on the common ac service, the grounded circuit conductor run with the supply to the building or structure shall be connected to the building or structure disconnecting means and to the grounding electrode(s) and shall be used for grounding or bonding of equipment, structures, or frames required to be grounded or bonded.”
Code-making Panel Five concludes there is no “...sound technical basis for knowingly permitting neutral current to return to the source on parallel paths...” <font color="red"> Bonded metallic paths that could create parallel paths with the supply conductors may include: water lines, gas lines, shielded coaxial cable, telephone wiring, or other power wiring. </font> )</font>
I have shielded coaxial cable, tel and eventually a copper water line so IMO I need the UN-bonded neutrals?!
woodlot
Gold Member
I wish you good luck. I am not an electrition but EVERYTHING I've read says that in your situation you should have 4 wires and an unbonded neutral, exactly as you have done. I gues you could ask him to site the code where it says you must bond the neutral. I suposse you could just put in the bonding screw or jumper to get you through the process and then remove it later? Please let us know how things turn out.
