So much for a Nissan Leaf!

[sseelhoff]

I had to chuckle... I still have my Apple //e and drive a car from the 1930's...

Went to Home Depot last week to pickup 8 sack of concrete mix... had the 91 Silverado hitched to the trailer so I drove the 1930 Model A Pickup with a piece of old carpet in the bed... got some strange comments!

I envy you and your Model A. I would love to have an old pick up. Even a Chevy Apache or an F-10 would be cool.

[/tangent]

 

[Loren49]

No, real science is based on questioning the hypothesis and testing until no other questions are left. Even then the accepted notions can be wrong and a more accurate answer comes about when new discoveries come about. Climate science still has a lot of questions that can't be tested and models are not tests. In the '70's there was the "Population Bomb" a best seller that predicted widespread wars due to food shortages, asserting that the world couldn't produce enough food to support it's population. It was based on modeling. It failed to foresee the green revolution which was already underway when the book was published. We now have more food per person than we did when the book was written. About the same time there was "The Limits to Growth" another model based book that predicted we would run out of essential resources long before 2014. Hasn't happened.

Models are like the model airplanes I built when I was a kid. They may look like the real thing but they aren't the real thing.

About 3% of scientists may agree with you. Your logic would have us do nothing until everything could be proven with no questions remaining....... Science in general uses the best information available at the time. Your logic would keep humanity from ever listening to science. Great delaying tactic.

Loren

 

[sseelhoff]

Today Tesla lost it's first of several Lemon Law (law suits) on their cars, the company tried to claim the owner had "messed" with it and caused the problems himself... This was off of the TV stock shows I watch, so have not looked into the full details on-line.

Seems to me more and more issues around the Tesla Cars are coming out so might be more issues that the green segment wants to bury out of sight & sound... As I have said in several posts Electric Cars are ok for a niche market. Someone who is a city dweller who stays in town & only drives a few miles a day/week. They are NOT for someone who lives in Rural America drives lots of miles daily, or makes multiple start/stops (small trips) on a regular basis. Then toss in the COLD weather much of the country has 1/3 of the year just keeping occupants warm in mid winter is too taxing on batteries when power is needed at worst temperature based performance of battery systems.

Mark

More on that Lemon Law case. First of all, they didn't lose, it was settled. Big difference.

Secondly, to paraphrase the great Marion Berry-looks like a "set-up."

When we last heard from Tesla Motors and Wisconsin's "King of the Lemon Laws" Vince Megna, the two were verbally sparring over the first lemon claim filed against the start-up electric vehicle maker

We first heard of Megna back in 2012 when he won a record $618,000 verdict against Mercedes-Benz over a lemon case, a win that led Wisconsin's state legislature to change the state's lemon law in favor of automakers.

Megna has filed thousands of such suits in his career, and has learned how to use the automakers' defenses to his advantage.

https://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motor...settlement-in-first-tesla-case-203202003.html

So now the philosophical question of the day-what's worse-an electric car or an ambulance chaser?

 

[SPIKER]

More on that Lemon Law case. First of all, they didn't lose, it was settled. Big difference.

Secondly, to paraphrase the great Marion Berry-looks like a "set-up."

https://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motor...settlement-in-first-tesla-case-203202003.html

So now the philosophical question of the day-what's worse-an electric car or an ambulance chaser?

Please read the statement I made (Last sentence of first paragraph.) "
This was off of the TV stock shows I watch, so have not looked into the full details on-line.

as noted I heard it on MSNBC stock trading show, I added into the conversation here because it was relevant to this thread.

(I agree about MOST ALL attorneys but agree 100% on the ambulance chasers!)
M

 

[Loren49]

A Look At Tesla's Cheapest Car, The Model 3

The Model 3 will be Tesla’s third generation battery-powered electric car. During a meeting last March with the California Public Utilities Commission, Musk revealed that the car and its battery would be 20 percent smaller and could go 200 miles on a single charge. He said it would be half the price of the $71,000 Model S.

Here's How Much Tesla Owners LOVE Their Cars

Move over, Vanilla the Volkswagen Beetle. There’s a new vehicle in town that's getting all the loving from its owners: the Tesla Model S. According to a new study, the electric sedan scored highest among all vehicles for generating owner “love.”

Global marketing company Strategic Vision's study determined owner love toward a vehicle by asking owners to score their car based off ownership and dealership experience related to “commitment, overall satisfaction, total top emotional responses, proposed repurchase loyalty and actual repurchase loyalty.”

Out of a possible 1,000 points, the Tesla scored 852.

Loren

 

[Pilot]

Really? You guys have obviously not seen Al Gores movie on climate change. There are models, graphs and lots of scientific stuff. :shocked:

Ah, yes the movie with lots of lies and just plain propaganda.

Starting with the obvious: Before & after glacier pics. You have to ask, what time of year was each pic taken? How much precip was there in each year? How warm was each of the years--and remember a warm year does not make a trend.

Then the lies: Lots of lies on the part of the alarmists. Lake Chad dried up due to farmers using it for irrigation and it has dried up multiple times over thousands of year, long before Gore's blathering. Not part of the movie, but the head of the IPCC was told 2 weeks before the conference in Copenhagen that the prediction that glaciers in the Himalayas would be gone in 35 years was bogus and there was no evidence to support that, but he went ahead and used that prediction in his opening remarks anyway.

West Antarctic ice sheet melting is actually due to undersea volcanic activity, not Gorebal warming. And overall, the Antarctic ice actually has increased in thickness and area.

I could go on, but a year or so ago we had a long thread about climate change and you can look that up.

 

[Citydude]

Ah, yes the movie with lots of lies and just plain propaganda.

Starting with the obvious: Before & after glacier pics. You have to ask, what time of year was each pic taken? How much precip was there in each year? How warm was each of the years--and remember a warm year does not make a trend.

Then the lies: Lots of lies on the part of the alarmists. Lake Chad dried up due to farmers using it for irrigation and it has dried up multiple times over thousands of year, long before Gore's blathering. Not part of the movie, but the head of the IPCC was told 2 weeks before the conference in Copenhagen that the prediction that glaciers in the Himalayas would be gone in 35 years was bogus and there was no evidence to support that, but he went ahead and used that prediction in his opening remarks anyway.

West Antarctic ice sheet melting is actually due to undersea volcanic activity, not Gorebal warming. And overall, the Antarctic ice actually has increased in thickness and area.

I could go on, but a year or so ago we had a long thread about climate change and you can look that up.

Yep, I know, It's old history that I thought I would drag back up for a chuckle. Hope your blood pressure didn't spike...

 

[Pilot]

About 3% of scientists may agree with you. Your logic would have us do nothing until everything could be proven with no questions remaining....... Science in general uses the best information available at the time. Your logic would keep humanity from ever listening to science. Great delaying tactic.

Loren

Where did that 3% come from?
Your logic would have everybody going off half cocked wasting time and resources on unproven ideas. Reread the part about models. Models based on tested hypotheses are useful, and they put men on the moon, but models built on theories that can't be proven or tested can be distracting and wasteful. The climate change alarmists are telling you bad things will happen by the year 2100 and no one can predict anything that far out and very little just 20 years out. In 1900 the biggest pollution problem in NYC was horse poop. 20 years later it was a minor problem. No one predicted that. The Population Bomb idea went out the window in just a few years. 10 years ago did you hear about fracking and hydraulic drilling? 20 years ago? We were supposed to run out of oil before 1930, then in the 1970's they were predicting just a few years more. Predictions are frequently wrong. If you can predict correctly more often than not, go to Vegas and make your fortune. And be sure you get there in a Leaf.

 

[Loren49]

Where did that 3% come from?
Your logic would have everybody going off half cocked wasting time and resources on unproven ideas. Reread the part about models. Models based on tested hypotheses are useful, and they put men on the moon, but models built on theories that can't be proven or tested can be distracting and wasteful. The climate change alarmists are telling you bad things will happen by the year 2100 and no one can predict anything that far out and very little just 20 years out. In 1900 the biggest pollution problem in NYC was horse poop. 20 years later it was a minor problem. No one predicted that. The Population Bomb idea went out the window in just a few years. 10 years ago did you hear about fracking and hydraulic drilling? 20 years ago? We were supposed to run out of oil before 1930, then in the 1970's they were predicting just a few years more. Predictions are frequently wrong. If you can predict correctly more often than not, go to Vegas and make your fortune. And be sure you get there in a Leaf.

BBC News - Is population growth out of control?

The respected broadcaster and naturalist, Sir David Attenborough, told the BBC recently that population growth was "out of control" - but one expert says the number of people on the planet could peak in 40 years. Who should we believe?

Population Trends: Rapid Growth in Less Developed Regions: Population & Development : UNFPA

How the World Can Get a Handle on Population Growth - US News

According to the U.S. Census Bureau, there are approximately 7,113,749,767 people on the planet, with another million arriving about every five days. The United Nations estimates that the world population at the end of the century will be around 11 billion, and many fear that the planet's natural resources are insufficient to accommodate such growth.

https://www.populationinstitute.org/resources/whypopulationmatters/

While public concern about rapid population growth has subsided in recent decades, world population is still growing at about 80 million people a year, or about 220,000 people per day. If current trends persist, there will 2.5 billion more people on the planet by mid-century, bringing the total to about 9.2 billion. That projected population growth raises a host of questions about the future of humanity and the planet we inhabit.

The Big Picture: Population Facts, Problems and Solutions.

Population growth is a root cause of many environmental and social problems:
These range from life-threatening to simply disruptive. They include:
Over 1 billion people do not have enough food and safe drinking water.
Global warming is disrupting our ecosystems and threatening billions of people with dislocation.
Energy sources, from wood to oil, are becoming scarcer and harder to reach or extract.
Due to population pressures, people now live in areas that are basically unsafe. Hundred of thousands of people died in 2010-2011 because they lived on floodplains in Pakistan or by the tsunami-prone coast of Japan.These regions were sparsely populated 30 years ago.
Population growth shares complex ties to poverty and inequality, exacerbating the gap between the wealthy and the poor, and complicating access to Earth's finite resources.
In the U.S.alone, sprawl destroys 2.2 million acres of farmland, ranchland and forest every year.
Americans spend an average of 55 workdays (2200 hours) per year stuck in traffic.


Not a good comparison to support your opinion. The challenges have not gone away...look around.

Loren

 

[buickanddeere]

There are groups out there that believe that world human population should be immediately reduced to 1/10 of current numbers.