Splitting Rock
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Gunnahafta
Member
Results: The stone only peeled off the top edge.
Learned mistakes:
1. Holes weren't lined up very well
2. I tried to split off too narrow a width for the thickness of the stone
3. I didn't wait long enough between poundings for wedges to do their work.
So... Round 2....
I made a drilling template out of some wood strapping to help drill hole in a very straight line. This time I tried them 5 inches apart to help "guide" the split...and drilled down one side to further help the split.
Learned mistakes:
1. Holes weren't lined up very well
2. I tried to split off too narrow a width for the thickness of the stone
3. I didn't wait long enough between poundings for wedges to do their work.
So... Round 2....
I made a drilling template out of some wood strapping to help drill hole in a very straight line. This time I tried them 5 inches apart to help "guide" the split...and drilled down one side to further help the split.
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Gunnahafta
Member
Results: Better, but not there yet...
Mistakes: See number 2 above.... I now figure I will most likely be able to split off a 7" step with this method (which is a standard riser height). I looked up the weight of granite (162 lbs/cubic foot), so I figure this 52"x7"x21" step that I will finally get will weigh approximately 662 lbs. and my tractor bucket will lift approx. 550 lbs.... Oh well, I'll figure that one out when I get that far...
Mistakes: See number 2 above.... I now figure I will most likely be able to split off a 7" step with this method (which is a standard riser height). I looked up the weight of granite (162 lbs/cubic foot), so I figure this 52"x7"x21" step that I will finally get will weigh approximately 662 lbs. and my tractor bucket will lift approx. 550 lbs.... Oh well, I'll figure that one out when I get that far...
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Gunnahafta
Member
I am interested to see your results.
Quick questions. I assume your F&W are 1/2 inch since that is the stated size of your core bit. They look bigger in the photos
How deep and how long did it take to drill each hole with the 1/2 inch bit?
Quick questions. I assume your F&W are 1/2 inch since that is the stated size of your core bit. They look bigger in the photos
How deep and how long did it take to drill each hole with the 1/2 inch bit?
Gunnahafta
Member
That's correct--1/2 inch F&W. The core bit will drill about 2.75" deep and takes approximately 2 minutes per hole. The core bit with the water coolant requires a steady pressure and moderate RPM. I could drill about 9-10 holes per battery (I have 3) with this drill--no problem. I use a masonary bit to start the end two holes and then dowel the template in place to start all the other holes with the core bit....
AndyR
Gold Member
I have not used the diamond drill and have not seen any masons using one for this application. I use carbide tipped spline drive masonry bits. I like the Dewalt as they usually are a bit beefier and have 4 points on their big bits where others have 2. I don't use any water and have a portable generator for when I am away from available AC power. I generally keep my holes about 4" deep or so and usually work with 3/4" holes though I will use 1/2" in tight spots.
It takes some practice to get the feel for how far to set your holes. Keeping things in a straight line is important if you want good results though it is quite possible to split out arcs if you have the practice. While not necessarily a Zen thing you do need to kind of get your head into the rock, as it were, to think about how the forces will produce a good split. Make sure all your feathers are lined up perpendicular to your cut line and work them one at a time so that they exert equal pressure. I use a mash hammer/pointed mallet to work the line between the holes as things get tight with the wedges - it helps to aid the fracture process.
Lastly - it is certainly possible to have granite with layers in it that seem to be something like sedimentary rock. It is all a matter of how the material was formed and behaved over time. Just walk along a stone wall in New Hampshire (or most of New England for that matter) and you will notice areas where there is an abundance of nice sqaurish wall stone. They didn't split it - believe me. There are just certain sections of rock that naturally cleave that way.
It takes some practice to get the feel for how far to set your holes. Keeping things in a straight line is important if you want good results though it is quite possible to split out arcs if you have the practice. While not necessarily a Zen thing you do need to kind of get your head into the rock, as it were, to think about how the forces will produce a good split. Make sure all your feathers are lined up perpendicular to your cut line and work them one at a time so that they exert equal pressure. I use a mash hammer/pointed mallet to work the line between the holes as things get tight with the wedges - it helps to aid the fracture process.
Lastly - it is certainly possible to have granite with layers in it that seem to be something like sedimentary rock. It is all a matter of how the material was formed and behaved over time. Just walk along a stone wall in New Hampshire (or most of New England for that matter) and you will notice areas where there is an abundance of nice sqaurish wall stone. They didn't split it - believe me. There are just certain sections of rock that naturally cleave that way.
OP
JimMorrissey
Veteran Member
Gunna,
Thanks you for the technique and lessons learned. That is a great series of photos. In fact, I am on my way to do some work around Montpelier, VT and intend to get some feather and wedges this afternoon while I'm in the area. I'll take some pictures and let you know how it goes.
I think you'll find that your loader might just be able to lift the slab enough to move it (with sufficient counter weight). If not you'll need to rig something up and use your your 3 point hitch to lift and place the stone. -Like to see some pictures of your steps when they're done.
Welcome to TBN. Lots of good people on here.
Thanks you for the technique and lessons learned. That is a great series of photos. In fact, I am on my way to do some work around Montpelier, VT and intend to get some feather and wedges this afternoon while I'm in the area. I'll take some pictures and let you know how it goes.
I think you'll find that your loader might just be able to lift the slab enough to move it (with sufficient counter weight). If not you'll need to rig something up and use your your 3 point hitch to lift and place the stone. -Like to see some pictures of your steps when they're done.
Welcome to TBN. Lots of good people on here.
Gunnahafta
Member
Thanks for the kind words. I've been gleaning wisdom from this site for quite a while and am amazed at the wealth of knowledge, kindness, and generosity found here. Great group of people almost without fail. I haven't posted much because I feel more of a student than a teacher, but I realize now that I learn as much from mistakes as I do from lectures, so posting my mistakes may help others.
I did look in my manual (Kubota B7500) at the specs this morning and it looks like my lift capacity is more than I thought (at the pivot pt.). I'll have to rig it so I'm lifting as close as possible to that.... I have started thinking about using the 3PH somehow as well....
Good luck in your project and I look forward to your pictures and comments! I'll post more pix when I get back at it.... All the best...
I did look in my manual (Kubota B7500) at the specs this morning and it looks like my lift capacity is more than I thought (at the pivot pt.). I'll have to rig it so I'm lifting as close as possible to that.... I have started thinking about using the 3PH somehow as well....
Good luck in your project and I look forward to your pictures and comments! I'll post more pix when I get back at it.... All the best...
Jagmandave
Veteran Member
After you get the chunks of stone back, how are you going to smooth out where the drill holes are?
Gunnahafta
Member
I haven't got that far yet, but I might be able to use the back side where there are no holes as the side that shows. I also have an artist friend who knows how to polish....
PS My parents lived in Olathe for ~20 yrs!
PS My parents lived in Olathe for ~20 yrs!
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JimMorrissey
Veteran Member
Gunna...I would think that polish would make them too slippery. I like the idea of putting the holes to the back and having a nice grippy surface to walk on when it wet or snowy. You should be able to use a wide chisle and take care of the marks in less time than polishing. They're GUNNA look great! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
If you drive around NE, you will see 1/2 cut holes in all the larger blocks. The concept of splitting rock with F&W has been in NE for 200-300 years, if my research is accurate.
I guess my point is, don't worry to much about hiding them, it's part of the "character".
As for core bit V. masonry bit, I still am not sure which is better. From my reading, one point of view was that its easier (removes less material) to drill the rim of the hole, not the entire hole.
AndyR: how long does it take you to drill your 1/2 inch holes. I assume you are using a hammer drill as well?
I guess my point is, don't worry to much about hiding them, it's part of the "character".
As for core bit V. masonry bit, I still am not sure which is better. From my reading, one point of view was that its easier (removes less material) to drill the rim of the hole, not the entire hole.
AndyR: how long does it take you to drill your 1/2 inch holes. I assume you are using a hammer drill as well?
Gunnahafta
Member
The reason I went with the core bit (certainly not expense) is that I wanted to be totally unplugged. With 3 charged batteries, I can drill between 25 and 30 holes, which is plenty for the sessions I do. I do need to run down to the quarry after every two or three holes to refill my water, which slows me down a little. I don't mind the break in the drilling--besides, I can have a cookie and think of my good fortunes to be in such a beautiful place.
The core bit, I believe, is used a lot for drilling holes in countertops and leaves a very finished surface--not important to me--whereas the masonry bit, I would guess, would leave a more rugged surface. I've attached a picture of a piece of a core.
I've also read that it's real important to wear some respiratory protection--especially with the masonry bit as the dust can be quite harmful to breathe. The core bit just runs all the ground up rock out as slurry in the water coolant, but I wear a mask anyway...
I agree about not worrying about the holes. They will be a constant reminder of my hard work!!
The core bit, I believe, is used a lot for drilling holes in countertops and leaves a very finished surface--not important to me--whereas the masonry bit, I would guess, would leave a more rugged surface. I've attached a picture of a piece of a core.
I've also read that it's real important to wear some respiratory protection--especially with the masonry bit as the dust can be quite harmful to breathe. The core bit just runs all the ground up rock out as slurry in the water coolant, but I wear a mask anyway...
I agree about not worrying about the holes. They will be a constant reminder of my hard work!!
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Scozz
Silver Member
Gunna ... why don't you pick up a 12 volt charger for your batteries? I'm assuming you have your tractor with you on these excursions? You could charge them as you work ... good luck, look forward to seeing the slabs ...Scozz
SkyPup
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Or you could get a 12V->110V inverter too. I recently got a 2400 watt unit for remote use powered by the tractor battery. That's 20 amps of power and most med. sized drills are only 5-8 amps.
Gunnahafta
Member
Actually, the site is 15 miles away from my tractor (I don't have a trailer) and unaccessable with my vehicle. It's a few hundred yards back in the woods. I can carry everything I need in a couple of toolboxes and a backpack and all the water is there in the quarry. I was thinking of doing all the splitting, then getting a tractor over to load the steps. I'm only doing one step at a time /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif (no pun intended), so it's no big deal to just recharge when I get home....
SPIKER
Elite Member
gunna:
that CORE looks like it is some NICE stone. I don't have anything like that around here inOHIO, we have granet STONES but very little large enough to slab them, they are usually round and slightly polished smooth from wear when the ice glacers rolled them down from the lake bed of ERIE. My place is loaded with them. I DO have a few that are striated nicely and wouldf make some good steps and are a blake pink black striations about 1" thick each. the stones are 2'high by 3' long by a semi circle of 12 ~ 40" thick. these I MAY try this method with... ever thought of scoring a line with a grinder & masonery disk along the hole lines?
Markm
that CORE looks like it is some NICE stone. I don't have anything like that around here inOHIO, we have granet STONES but very little large enough to slab them, they are usually round and slightly polished smooth from wear when the ice glacers rolled them down from the lake bed of ERIE. My place is loaded with them. I DO have a few that are striated nicely and wouldf make some good steps and are a blake pink black striations about 1" thick each. the stones are 2'high by 3' long by a semi circle of 12 ~ 40" thick. these I MAY try this method with... ever thought of scoring a line with a grinder & masonery disk along the hole lines?
Markm
Gunnahafta
Member
I have given that a thought, but it would require another set of toys that I'd need to buy. I think when I made my move to 5" between holes, it pretty much convinced the rock to split in that plane. I can bore on 3 of the 4 sides, but can't get to the bottom. Just have to hope it cleaves all the way through....
Taylortractornut
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Go to RSC or other large rental store and rent a hydraulic power pack and a splitter attachment. You hammer drill a hole then theis splitter attachment goes into the hole and expans in there fracturing the rock. We use these alot when i do jobs in Alabama. and Tennessee. Ive had several rocks the size of a VW beside a trench or foundation that had to be taken out in parts. Its alot easier than having to wedge one.
