spray insulation

[alysonsdad]

nephew just got a metal outbuilding about 20 x 30. Ideas for insulating it? and costs? Was thinking of doing the insulating as a shed warming gift. Thanks in advance

 

[Joe Malovich]

Spray insulation is expensive but it does accomplish air sealing. 2" should be plenty in GA. Up here in PA 2" is only a start.

 

[Redlands Okie]

No idea on pricing, spray foam is very hard to beat

 

[mobilus]

I got a quote of $2500 for a 20x30 bay in my shop here in North Texas a couple years ago. Shop has 12' walls, and a12x10' insulated door that reduced coverage area. I had to pass.

 

[jk96]

We just did 2500 sq ft of open cell 4-5" thick. Cost was $5,000. We are in NW Missouri.

 

[thepumpguysc]

I "WAS" gonna go that route until I saw the cost.. ended up doing 2" foil faced foam board. 50@20.00/sheet [$1000.00 delivered] 24x32 metal
4x8 sheets cut to fit nicely between studs for a tight fit.. did ceiling/roof too..
Started by using a "bread" knife but ended w/ a circular saw.. much, much faster & easier on the arm..

 

[Tomtint]

We foamed our entire house when we built it 7 years ago. Cost was about 14k for the whole place.. Fiberglass batt insulation would have been about 8K. There is no doubt we have recouped the added cost by now. It is incredibly efficient, our heat and AC bills are very cheap compared to other houses we have owners of similar size. I would do it again if we rebuild.

 

[RedNeckRacin]

I was quoted $0.50 a board foot for open cell and $1 a board foot for closed cell spray foam. I went with batt insulation in my house I am building myself.....

 

[Oldoak]

Without a doubt, spay foam insulation is expensive and does the best job of sealing air infiltration. Along with it there are many variables , open cell and closed cell (being the most expensive), thickness, and "R" value (which I've seen no mention of so far).

Just something to keep in mind when comparing quotes.

 

[gsganzer]

I'm on a pier and beam foundation and they're spraying the underside of my floor today. 1200 ft2, 2" thick closed cell foam, $2400 It will give about an R13. I looked at fiberglass and open cell foam, but for moisture and critters, the closed cell is the best option. Because it's a crawl space and not subjected to the full ambient temperature swings, R13 should be fine.

 

[EddieWalker]

Check with the manufacturer of the building before using foam. The ones that I know of will void their warrantee if you use open cell because it traps and holds moisture, which results in accelerated rusting of the metal. Closed cell is usually good because it does not allow moisture into it. Which is also why closed cell is used for dock floats. Cost for closed cell is a lot more the open cell, and it's harder to apply, so you have to be careful of insulation companies that try to push open cell over closed cell. You also get a higher R value with closed cell for the same thickness as open cell.

For a lot less money, I've considered installing metal siding on the ceiling of my shop because my trusses are four feet apart. The metal will easily span that and not sag over time. Then blowing in 2 feet of Attic Cat insulation up there, and then using fiberglass bats in the walls. I did this with my parents garage and the results have been significant. No source of heat or cooling in there, and three garage doors that are also insulated, and in the worse heat of the day, it's still nice in there.

 

[Dadnatron]

Where does the high cost come from? Is it that difficult of a molecule to synthesize so the actual chemical the company purchases is expensive to him? Or is is just a basic industry standard price? Its not the 'new thing' anymore, so I would have thought costs/prices would have come down substantially. Is it just that it has become the 'gold standard' and therefore is priced out as a premium product?

I'm not trying to 'take away' anyone's income, but I do want to know where the price is coming from prior to decisions.

 

[gsganzer]

Where does the high cost come from? Is it that difficult of a molecule to synthesize so the actual chemical the company purchases is expensive to him? Or is is just a basic industry standard price? Its not the 'new thing' anymore, so I would have thought costs/prices would have come down substantially. Is it just that it has become the 'gold standard' and therefore is priced out as a premium product?

I'm not trying to 'take away' anyone's income, but I do want to know where the price is coming from prior to decisions.

I think the cost comes from the need for some pretty specialized equipment. Heated lines, pumps etc. I'll watch them do mine later today (if the storms don't make us reschedule) and tell you more after I've watched the process.

 

[ovrszd]

I think the cost comes from the need for some pretty specialized equipment. Heated lines, pumps etc. I'll watch them do mine later today (if the storms don't make us reschedule) and tell you more after I've watched the process.

I would greatly appreciate your opinions after watching the process.

I don't think there's any debate about the efficiency of this type.

I also appreciate comments in regards to R-value. Otherwise it's pretty hard to put logical thought to cost comparisons.

 

[gsganzer]

I've also been told that UV light will break down the foam. So in walls, crawl spaces etc, you're fine, for areas that might get some light (inside of a shop or other areas where it's left exposed), they recommend painting it with a cheap latex paint.

Bottom line, the time to insulate a metal shop is when you put it up, using reinforced vinyl faced fiberglass insulation. If there's concern that it'll get damaged (critters, birds, wind) or the seams could come loose and drape, add a layer of chicken wire.

 

[ovrszd]

I've also been told that UV light will break down the foam. So in walls, crawl spaces etc, you're fine, for areas that might get some light (inside of a shop or other areas where it's left exposed), they recommend painting it with a cheap latex paint.

Bottom line, the time to insulate a metal shop is when you put it up, using reinforced vinyl faced fiberglass insulation. If there's concern that it'll get damaged (critters, birds, wind) or the seams could come loose and drape, add a layer of chicken wire.

I've heard of using a thin layer when building, then spray insulation to get the R-value you desire. Idea being it reduces the chances of rusty metal and makes it very easy to replace a panel if it gets damaged.

 

[gsganzer]

For a lot less money, I've considered installing metal siding on the ceiling of my shop because my trusses are four feet apart. The metal will easily span that and not sag over time. Then blowing in 2 feet of Attic Cat insulation up there, and then using fiberglass bats in the walls. I did this with my parents garage and the results have been significant. No source of heat or cooling in there, and three garage doors that are also insulated, and in the worse heat of the day, it's still nice in there.

Eddie,
I did my in-law apartment that way. I used the old corrugated roof metal that was originally on my shop roof as the flat ceiling to the apartment. I then used 6" (or maybe it was 9") vinyl faced rolls that came 6' wide to insulate the ceiling. I only did a single layer, because the shop sloped roof is also insulated. I put purlins every 2' to support the metal ceiling, but I could have gotten away with purlins every 4'. Actually, when I put the ceiling up, I was running low on screws and only fastened to every-other purlin, figuring I'd screw the others in at a later date. It's been up for over 6 years now and I only noticed the other week that I never went back and added the other fasteners!

On my install, I needed a good way to make a seal between the ceiling and wall. What I did was use roof flashing and then sprayed foam on the top side where the flashing and ceiling meet to seal the edges.

I've attached a photo.

 

[gsganzer]

Well, They had to postpone my spray foam to next week. We're having huge rains and between tracking mud throughout my house and the humidity, we decided to do it another time. Foam application is really particular to the temp and humidity.

While I was talking to the guy, I asked whey it's so expensive. He said it's driven by the cost of the specialty equipment, the cost of the product itself (the binary agents) and the short shelf-life of the binary agents. When they buy a 55 gallon drum, it's only good for 3 months.

 

[ovrszd]

Well, They had to postpone my spray foam to next week. We're having huge rains and between tracking mud throughout my house and the humidity, we decided to do it another time. Foam application is really particular to the temp and humidity.

While I was talking to the guy, I asked whey it's so expensive. He said it's driven by the cost of the specialty equipment, the cost of the product itself (the binary agents) and the short shelf-life of the binary agents. When they buy a 55 gallon drum, it's only good for 3 months.

Thanks for the explanation. Makes perfect sense to me.

 

[Wood_Butcher_Dav]

I paid $5k for the spray foam in my garage, Closed cell 4 inches in ceiling and 1 inch on walls. I have 6 inch walls, so added fiberglass bats over the foam to fill wall cavity.

The garage is 28X40

Dave