Stick welder recommendation ?

[bcarwell]

I know I could ask at a welding forum but I trust you guys' answers better.

Could you please suggest some preferably used (but new is okay) model numbers to watch for of reliable, basic, solid, good 220V AC/DC stick welders in the 200-250 amp range and what an approximate price range might be ? I'm assuming Miller, Lincoln, or Hobart. Model numbers would be very helpful and what a good price would be.

I've taken a stick welding course in community college, am finishing wiring my shed and am ready to start doing some fabricating and mods, 3/8-1/2 in. steel.

I've read alot of the religious discussions about welding here, duty cycles, MIG, TIG, being able to do thicker stuff with smaller MIG machines and multiple passes, etc., etc.etc. and don't care to revisit them. For my purposes, I am convinced starting by acquiring a solid stick welding foundation first with some projects and a quality stick welder is the way to go. I was cutting and drilling holes in 1/2 inch plate and welding aluminum with an arc welder in this basic community college course much to my amazement. And I figure if I can do all that with a stick welder, then maybe after paying my dues I can spring for a MIG or TIG later. I did use MIG in the course and no doubt it lays some beautiful beads easy and was a piece o' cake...

But please, some basic 200-250 amp stick welder model recommendations to keep my eyes out for on Ebay and auctions, and prices would be very much appreciated from you experienced folks...


Thanks,
Bob

 

[MadReferee]

I know I could ask at a welding forum but I trust you guys' answers better.

Not to knock the knowledge of the people on this forum but would you ask a tractor specific question on a welding forum and take their answer as gospel?

 

[Soundguy]

Not to knock the knowledge of the people on this forum but would you ask a tractor specific question on a welding forum and take their answer as gospel?

I'd have to say that TBN is FAR beyond a tractor specific forum.... ( YTmag is a tractor specific forum )...

To the original poster.. A goo d lincoln tombstone (9 garage/yard sales - 50$ ) is a good thing to look out for. We have an old ac/dc one in the shop at work.. and man it can burn some electrodes.

I picked up a hobart stickmate 235 lx AC model.. there is a ac/dc model. i love mine. Can't see you going wrong with either of those. Burns rods like butter.

Soundguy

 

[bcarwell]

Not to knock the knowledge of the people on this forum but would you ask a tractor specific question on a welding forum and take their answer as gospel?

Sorry, poor choice of words ("trust"). "Trust" in the sense that I was more likely here to get answers from the perspective of someone more likely to be using a welder for the same purposes I am (farm/ranch), who might, for example, question my reasoning in thinking I will be welding alot of 3/8-1/2 inch in doing fab and mod work and who also might suggest that around farm and ranch they also thought they'd be doing thicker stuff, only to find it was 20% of the time and therefore a MIG and multiple passes for that rarity made more sense. I was anticipating the response I've often seen about "go ask on a welding forum". I don't think that universe of people has the same understanding of what the usage and mix of jobs is you might be doing on a farm/ranch or with a tractor/implements. Although no doubt many folks that hang on the welding forums are probably highly competent. But don't sell the welders on this forum short. I've read enough of this forum to discriminate between input from the occasional welder with a 110VAC mig doing sheetmetal work and a guy having to weld some heavy tractor stuff together that will stick who shows pictures of his weld beads. You can pick up and often they will even say in their posts whether they're a casual welder so caveat emptor or an 'old timer' who has used barbed wire or coat hangers for feeder rods (which, BTW, I was told by my welding instructor at the community college may actually WORK in a pinch if you could just know reliably what the barbed wire was actually made of...) .

Anyway, I'm still interested in what the experience of folks on this forum are on a farm/ranch with stick welders and what they think I might want to be looking for.

I will however also check the welding forums, especially after what I hear here. But thanks for the prod. No offense taken. I'll try to be more articulate next time, as I understand why we don't want the forum clogged with questions having absolutely no connection with tractors....

Bob

 

[Tom_Veatch]

...
Could you please suggest some preferably used (but new is okay) model numbers to watch for of reliable, basic, solid, good 220V AC/DC stick welders in the 200-250 amp range and what an approximate price range might be ? I'm assuming Miller, Lincoln, or Hobart. Model numbers would be very helpful and what a good price would be.
...

I bought a Miller Thunderbolt XL 225/150 AC/DC off eBay that I am very pleased with. I believe the Miller stock number on the unit is 903642. You can check the Miller website (Miller - Welding Equipment - MIG/TIG/Stick Welders & Plasma Cutting) to be sure.

It was used and needed new welding leads but the price was in the mid $250's - comparable to a new Lincoln 225AC from Home Depot. Today's street prices on that unit run right at $500. DC capability adds a significant chunk to the cost but IMHO is well worth it.

I was able to pick mine up directly from the seller and save the shipping cost. Otherwise, I probably wouldn't have bid on it.

Watch out for the shipping costs on eBay auctions of used welders. Shipping is expensive for units that heavy and can push the delivered cost up to levels comparable to new units. For used equipment, I prefer to hold it down to 50-75% of new delivered cost.

 

[DieselPower]

I will however also check the welding forums, especially after what I hear here. But thanks for the prod. No offense taken. I'll try to be more articulate next time, as I understand why we don't want the forum clogged with questions having absolutely no connection with tractors....

Bob

Well they are. At least when your welding on them.

I agree with Soundguy. There are lot's of used Lincoln tombstone welders to be found for a good price if you look hard enough. I have a couple of them and one of the Hobart Stickmate 235's but mine is a AC/DC. Both types work great. If I really want to blow holes in something I break out the Linde square wave arc welder.

 

[MadReferee]

Sorry, poor choice of words ("trust"). "Trust" in the sense that I was more likely here to get answers from the perspective of someone more likely to be using a welder for the same purposes I am (farm/ranch), who might, for example, question my reasoning in thinking I will be welding alot of 3/8-1/2 inch in doing fab and mod work and who also might suggest that around farm and ranch they also thought they'd be doing thicker stuff, only to find it was 20% of the time and therefore a MIG and multiple passes for that rarity made more sense. I was anticipating the response I've often seen about "go ask on a welding forum". I don't think that universe of people has the same understanding of what the usage and mix of jobs is you might be doing on a farm/ranch or with a tractor/implements. Although no doubt many folks that hang on the welding forums are probably highly competent. But don't sell the welders on this forum short. I've read enough of this forum to discriminate between input from the occasional welder with a 110VAC mig doing sheetmetal work and a guy having to weld some heavy tractor stuff together that will stick who shows pictures of his weld beads. You can pick up and often they will even say in their posts whether they're a casual welder so caveat emptor or an 'old timer' who has used barbed wire or coat hangers for feeder rods (which, BTW, I was told by my welding instructor at the community college may actually WORK in a pinch if you could just know reliably what the barbed wire was actually made of...) .

You would be surprised how many of the welders over on the Hobart and Miller forums are ranchers/farmers or who work on heavy equipment welding on a daily basis.

As for your original question, if you are planning on a steady diet of 3/8" to 1/2" steel welding you are looking at a 250 amp or bigger MIG welder. A 175-185 amp is marginal even with multiple passes and a 200 amp machine would do but with multiple passes. I speak from experience as I moved from a MM175 to a MM251. As for sheet metal work any of the MIG's would work fine with the power turned down.

I now only use MIG and TIG welders and no longer stick weld so I cannot help in that area.

Mad Referee
owner, Perham Corner Machine and Fabrication

 

[thingy]

Well,I think you are making a smart decision on buying a stick ac/dc welder,instead of a mig like it seems everybody else,[well],,,,,you can weld thin stuff,just use a smaller rod,,you can weld unlimited thick stuff,,,you can also tig weld with stick machine as is,just get a torch with a connection block for stinger to clamp on and argon hose to go to,and flow meter/gage ,,use generally dcen instead of dcep as you would for stick,[just switch leads on machine],but you might want to spend a little more and get one with high frequency,and one you can hook up a foot peddle to control amps,etc,,,you can also carbon arc gouge with a stick machine,,,so with a good combo stick/tig machine,you are set to weld about anything,,,you should also think about getting a motor generator one,,smaller one you can wheel around by yourself,,bigger one you can mount on trailer,,just a thought for down the road.But get a good one,,lincoln,miller,hobart,and since I think miller now owns hobart[or is it the other way around?]basicly lincoln or miller,,,,and at least 180-200 amps,,this is not the time to try and save a couple hundred bucks.
As far as those dedicated welding web sites,,they are just like any other web site,but instead of tractor brands,you get welder brands,,and pipefitters argueing against sheet metal workers,,etc,,lot of salesmen on them too,,,thingy

 

[Soundguy]

That 'farm application' does mean alot. Sometimes we are faced with emergency welding repairs that have to glue thru paint and rust with a strong wind and a bit of rain falling. ( not ideal for mig ).

The biggest stuff I have welded was 1/2" when working with my batwing. i had to weld up some cracked brackets and reinforce them when one of the wings broke a hinge. With the amps cranked up that ac only 235a stickmate really melted some metal together. I used my mower for the rest (half) of that mowing season with no indication the weld was or is going to fail.

Soundguy

Sorry, poor choice of words ("trust"). "Trust" in the sense that I was more likely here to get answers from the perspective of someone more likely to be using a welder for the same purposes I am (farm/ranch), who might, for example, question my reasoning in thinking I will be welding alot of 3/8-1/2 inch in doing fab and mod work and who also might suggest that around farm and ranch they also thought they'd be doing thicker stuff, only to find it was 20% of the time and therefore a MIG and multiple passes for that rarity made more sense. I was anticipating the response I've often seen about "go ask on a welding forum". I don't think that universe of people has the same understanding of what the usage and mix of jobs is you might be doing on a farm/ranch or with a tractor/implements. Although no doubt many folks that hang on the welding forums are probably highly competent. But don't sell the welders on this forum short. I've read enough of this forum to discriminate between input from the occasional welder with a 110VAC mig doing sheetmetal work and a guy having to weld some heavy tractor stuff together that will stick who shows pictures of his weld beads. You can pick up and often they will even say in their posts whether they're a casual welder so caveat emptor or an 'old timer' who has used barbed wire or coat hangers for feeder rods (which, BTW, I was told by my welding instructor at the community college may actually WORK in a pinch if you could just know reliably what the barbed wire was actually made of...) .

Anyway, I'm still interested in what the experience of folks on this forum are on a farm/ranch with stick welders and what they think I might want to be looking for.

I will however also check the welding forums, especially after what I hear here. But thanks for the prod. No offense taken. I'll try to be more articulate next time, as I understand why we don't want the forum clogged with questions having absolutely no connection with tractors....

Bob

 

[Lynkage]

I am not sure what kind of price range you are in but when I was looking for welders I wanted as much versitility in one welder that I could get.

I found a Lincoln SquareWave pro 225 that does AC/DC stick and TIG. I have also found that I like to TIG more than stick. I also bought a Lincoln 175 MIG.
I did not want to buy something and then have to get something different to do what jobs come my way.

 

[PBinWA]

I've been trolling for a "nice" used AC/DC Stick welder in my area and they are very rare.

Northern Tools occasionally has the Hobart Stickmate AC/DC unit on for under $400 with free shipping too. They are as cheap as I've seen anywhere for that unit.

PB

 

[bcarwell]

Several recommendations I've been receiving say just go with a Hobart Stickmate 235 AC/DC or Lincoln Tombstone and be done with it.

But the DC maximum amps I'm seeing is maybe around 160-175 amps.

Is this enough when welding with DC for 3/8 - 1/2 inch plate ? Or would I have to use AC ?

I seem to recall mostly using a setting of about 200 when I was in welding class and for sure I needed a little more than that (210 amps I recall) when blowing holes through thick plate with an arc (which I really liked since it seemed to beat the heck out of drilling).

What are the limitations of having 175 max amps DC versus a 200 or 250 amp machine ?

I also got a response on one of the welding forums that you don't necessarily want to weld 3/8 or 1/2 inch in a single pass anyway due to "HAZ" (large 'heat affected zone') and an excessively large, overheated weld.

So maybe when welding the thick stuff 160-175 amps DC is enough.

Any opinions ?

(And thanks for all the helpful prior posts. Very helpful).

Bob

 

[PBinWA]

You would use the higher AC Amps for the thick stuff. It's going splatter more but it will give you the penetration you need. You can always do one deep pass with AC for the penetration and then use DC to cover the weld with something more attractive. At least that's my understanding - I'm only book smart not experience smart and there is a big difference between the two.

 

[thingy]

Man,,some people just wanta give advise,,,number 1,,you get better penatration with dc than ac,,,number2,,you can weld some thing 8 inches thick with 120-130 amps,you just gotta prepare groove and make multipasses,,[how do you think they weld pipe thats an inch thick,,just one pass?,,you'd need an 1 1/2 dia rod,not to mention it wouldn't work],,,,funny,,,,thingy

 

[Soundguy]

Thingy.. i think you are forgetting the amperage limitations we are discussing here. While DC may get better penetration vs AC.. The fellow is comparing 160a DC with 235AC. I'm not omnipitant and an expert at everything like you are... but.. i'm guessing 235ac and a big 6011 rod is going to get more penetration than 160a dc...and whatever rod.. etc.

Soundguy

 

[thingy]

Soundguy,I know you don't know as much about welding as me,no need for you to say that,so,,listen.
Basics,,,you don't try and weld something in one pass unless its thin,,,like I've said,,how do you all think they weld a 1 inch thick piece of pipe or plate that needs to be a full penatration weld?,,by using a 2 inch rod at 500 amps??? no,,they make multiple passes,,using 1/8 rod and 5/32 rod,,[maybe even some 3/16 rod],,they use the bigger rod for speed,,,but you can weld up 1 inch plate and have it pass x-ray and a bend test with 1/8 rod at about 125 amps or so,,you make multiple passes,[look at it like a whole bunch of little welds tied into each other],,,,just telling you all the facts.
Some welding salesman started this stuff of this mig machine will weld this thick a steel in one pass stuff,,makes no since to a welder however,,cause thats not how you go about welding something,,,,maybe sheetmetal.
And when you start using dc current ep,,you don't want anymore of them 6011,,you use 6010,,and 7018,,,get some 3/32 for thin stuff,,get some 1/8 for thicker stuff,,like I said,,,a 1/8 rod uses about 125 amps of dc power,,,but the way the duty cycle works out on these machines is you need about a 180-200 amp machine to use that 1/8 rod for any length of time,,,this is why you need a bigger machine,duty cycle,,,,not to run a 3/16 rod,,,,plus with a machine thats about a 200 amp,,you can use 5/32 rods,when you want to fill up something faster,,,plus you could do some carbon arc gouging with it,if you ever had some old nasty welds to remove,,,thingy

 

[DieselPower]

Soundguy,I know you don't know as much about welding as me,no need for you to say that,so,,listen.

 

[dmccarty]

Soundguy,I know you don't know as much about welding as me,no need for you to say that,so,,listen.

Thingy, how about putting the Know It All comments on a shelf instead of filling up TBN with the Bovine Scatology. The comments are rude, not needed and I sure don't think they are funny. If you have something to say you don't have to slap down other TBNers in the process.

Later,
Dan

 

[thingy]

Now that is funny,,how do you get them little men to roll around like that anyways? thingy

 

[thingy]

Dan,you got some funny words there,,,I guess you didn't read soundguys post to me? [right above mine],he called me a know it all,I just agreed,in this topic anyways.
Since me and you's talking now,what do you think about the subject? thingy