Straight or swirls?

[Jay4200]

I've owned welders and done DIY welding for years for the occasional project, but my welding hasn't really improved a whole ton. I've never had anyone show me what too fast or too slow or too cold or too hot looks like, so I'm having a tough time diagnosing what I'm doing wrong (or right). Sometimes my welds look absolutely great - with the whole stack of dimes thing, but other times they look like poo - holes and blobs and splatter...and I swear I'm doing the exact same thing with the same setup all the time. I'm trying to whittle down the variables...so bear with me if these are stupid questions.

When making a weld with either a coil fed (I use flux-core) or a stick, and ignoring any kind of fancy applications, are you generally supposed to run straight up the weld or weave the stick/gun back n' forth or around in little circles as you go?

Also, when running a stick weld, do you kinda press the rod into the metal as you go (or drag it against the surface) and let the arc do its thing for inherent distance, or do you actively try to hold the stick some fraction of an inch away from the weld?

 

[CNC Dan]

I've owned welders and done DIY welding for years for the occasional project, but my welding hasn't really improved a whole ton. I've never had anyone show me what too fast or too slow or too cold or too hot looks like, so I'm having a tough time diagnosing what I'm doing wrong (or right). Sometimes my welds look absolutely great - with the whole stack of dimes thing, but other times they look like poo - holes and blobs and splatter...and I swear I'm doing the exact same thing with the same setup all the time. I'm trying to whittle down the variables...so bear with me if these are stupid questions.

When making a weld with either a coil fed (I use flux-core) or a stick, and ignoring any kind of fancy applications, are you generally supposed to run straight up the weld or weave the stick/gun back n' forth or around in little circles as you go?

Yes. That is either way.
Look for welding videos on youtube from someone called "weldingtipsandtricks" He has the best welding videos on the internet.
And he shows many ways to move the gun and explains why.

Also, when running a stick weld, do you kinda press the rod into the metal as you go (or drag it against the surface) and let the arc do its thing for inherent distance, or do you actively try to hold the stick some fraction of an inch away from the weld?

Some you can/should drag the flux coating on the workpiece, others you hold them just above the puddle.

 

[MinnesotaDaveChalmers]

I'll second going to weldingtipsandtricks.
His video page is a little easier to find stuff welding-tv.com

Here is a fairly recent one:
MIG Welding Basics: Part 4 - welding-tv.com | welding-tv.com

 

[CNC Dan]

I also got some good DVDs from a place called Wall Mountain.

I got the two stick welding DVDs, and they are great. I imagine the MIG welding ones are just as good.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I cant think of any type of welding that uses swirls. A back and forth stepping motion or side to side zig-zag or U shaped motion stepping up a bit each U is about the only motion I can think of that wont trap slag or result in an un-uniform weld.

 

[Gary Fowler]

Well after posting I did think of one swirl motion but it is used with acetylene welding, not arc welding.

 

[FarmDad]

The whip and pause used with 6010 could easily be seen as a swirl .
ChuckE 2009 or Lanse as he is known on some forum has some pretty good educational vids in plain language . here is the playlist for stick welding
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL_P7k0CDx5cWK1dJBI2EOyEq7bHN_YdCI

and here is mig welding
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL_P7k0CDx5cWywuZRYRd3HDZuvy7mTH0k

Poke around on his channel and there is lots of information presented in a learning friendly fashion

 

[Reverser]

I've seen a few guys use a small circular motion while using 6010/6011 when welding flat/horizontal, if that's what the OP means as "swirl".
My welding teacher in high school used the circular method. Other instructors and most welders I've been around, used the side to side technique in that position.

 

[Arc weld]

Some people go in circles when MIG welding.

 

[mfreund]

Was the metal all the same? I would think splatter and such is caused by contamination. Oil, paint, dirt all cause havoc on welds. Might not be just technique.

 

[Gary Fowler]

Some people go in circles when MIG welding.

My only reply to that is "WHY?" Moving in and out of the puddle only increases the chances of puddle cooling and slag forming under the next swirl.
As FarmDad said, a back and forth stepping motion might be seen as a circular motion.
The only reason to step out of the puddle when welding is to allow the puddle to cool a bit so you can fill up a gap like when running an uphill bead.
Stepping motion is also used when running a hot pass but the motion is a bit more than just stepping, it also has a shortening and lengthening arc motion. The short arc motion allows the rod to dig into the base metal gouging out any impurities and then the long arc allows them to float to the surface. It is no way considered a circular motion.

You may not see any effects on your farm welds by using circular motion other than ugly welds but if xrayed you would surely see lots of defects.
Stick with a side to side zig-zag or U shaped motion or just drag it. The faster the motion, the closer together the ripples will be and thus smoother the weld.

 

[LD1]

Sometimes I do circles (more like lowercase cursive e's) when mig welding.

Sometimes I go straight, sometimes weave, sometimes others. Just depends. Material thickness, joint type, position, all come into play.

Back to the whole circle thing, there is a handfull of times it is nice. When trying to fill a gap. Im not talking a 1/8" gap in 1/4" steel. But something closer to material thickness. Doing the circle thing, when going forward you basically go up one edge of the metal, back down the other, and lap over the weld where the pieces are together. Then repeat. It gives the welded area a change to actually cool, as well as give a little more material out front for the next pass. IMO, it allows you to weld hotter vs just doing a weave.

 

[jwmorris]

Like almost everything in life, it depends. I use them all from time to time. Zigzag, circle, straight, push, pull, it just depends if the situation needs it.

As for your welds being good/bad from time to time and you think you are doing the exact same thing, how about your surface preparation? Might a good weld be with new material that is clean and a "poo" weld be old painted/rusty iron that just needs to be hit with a sander or grinder?

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

Yes, a lot of people use little cursive "e's" in welding...MIG mainly, but in general I think you are talking simply about weaving, not swirling...and running "straight" is called running a "Stringer" bead. The " E" patter causes the arc to "bite in" in front of the puddle. and fuses the root, especially when pushing MIG. It doesn't cause issues if done correctly and not overexaggerated.

From the terminology that you are using (somewhat incorrectly) I can tell that you could really benefit from some self education on welding. There are numerous online free resources, including weldingtipsandtricks.com and other places that not only show you how to weld, but also do a fair job of explaining correct terminology. With all the free information out there, there's really not much left to the imagination about welding. FWIW "Coil fed" is wire fed. Or wire feed.

 

[Arc weld]

Welding tips and tricks explains it very well and has a video. The cursive "e's" he's talking about are basically little circles at the front of the puddle.

 

[Jay4200]

From the terminology that you are using (somewhat incorrectly) I can tell that you could really benefit from some self education on welding.

You can say that two times!

Thanks for the inputs - I never think of youtube as a resource, but that is a terrific idea. Must be the "over 50" thing...

 

[Msamt]

Youtube is the number one search engine in the world! As a marketer, i have to remind myself of this often, so you are not alone!

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

It's called Youtube U. It's amazig what you can do and learn.

 

[Scooby074]

I'll second going to weldingtipsandtricks.
His video page is a little easier to find stuff welding-tv.com

Here is a fairly recent one:
MIG Welding Basics: Part 4 - welding-tv.com | welding-tv.com

Jody makes some of the best vids.

Thats a great one, talking about "e's"and other weave pattens and the effect on the weld, including lack of fusion. And how to check for it.

 

[Thats Hot]

You can also look at Kevin Carons vids. on You-Tube a lot of great info also....