Stuck Again

[the6shooter]

Has Anyone thought about putting a electric winch to the nose for their tractor ??? well with all the rain falling here in Oklahoma I have become stuck in the mud, so many times, It's getting rediculus. so I have been thinking about putting one of thoughs 4,000lb. atv winches to the nose for my tractor, just cause, paying some tow truck driver $120 bucks a shot to get out of something I can do myself, would be the better thing to do.
Do any of you other tractor owners have one on there tractors ???
thanks david

 

[mboulais]

No, but it's not a bad idea. If you weld a 2" receiver to the loader bucket or a brushguard and a 2" reciever on the drawbar, you could set up the winch to move front to back.

 

[bigdad]

There you guys go!
A great idea.....and in one more post.....it gets even better.

Well done!

 

[Thomas]

Instead of winch,how about installing slip hook on the front and back than purchasing heavy duty come along....multi uses.

 

[bones1]

No, but it's not a bad idea. If you weld a 2" receiver to the loader bucket or a brushguard and a 2" reciever on the drawbar, you could set up the winch to move front to back.

Do you think a 4000lb winch attached to the bucket would hurt the loader or bucket under a heavy pull?.

 

[chadincolo]

Do you think a 4000lb winch attached to the bucket would hurt the loader or bucket under a heavy pull?.

I don't think it would hurt the loader, but I don't think 4000lb is big enough. That's 4000lb rolling load, I don't know what size tractor you have but 4000lb isn't much of a winch. I would think even a 25hp tractor would need more winch than that, but I could be wrong, if you had a remote so you could pull with the winch while you try to drive out it might do ok.

 

[hill]

I think it's a great idea.

The biggest problem I'd see is the weak alternator that tractors typically have. They aren't usually set up to power big draw accessories like a winch. But if you wouldn't have far to go and double the line through a snatchblock you might get away with it.

I'd say forget about comealongs - I hate those cumbersome useless hassling things -JMO.

 

[RonMar]

Glad someone brought it up, most compact utility tractor electrical systems won't take kindly to a winch. They are usually pretty small as they only need to feed some lights and gauges. You have a large capacity battery to deal with a large diesel starter and engine compression, but a winch under load will quiclky run the battery flat. That little alternator wasn't designed to charge a dead battery, only maintain a healthy battery at peak charge, recover from startup loads and power the accessories. It will take it a LONG time at idle RPM to recover a dead battery, with it's regulator working it at 100% output the whole time. It wasn't designed to run at 100% output for extended periods. If you don't get the battery recharged and shut down too early, Then you are stuck and the battery has no power to restart the tractor engine.

As mentioned, Big difference between pulling a rolling 4000# and trying to drag/lift 4000# out of the mud. figure out your all up weight and goto a good 4X4 shop and ask them what size winch they would reccomend to get that weight vehicle out of a good mud hole. A 4000# vehicle would probably be reccomended to have a 8-12K# winch. Then ask them what kind of an electrical system is required to feed that size winch reliably.

The only way I would want to try and pull from the FEL would be straight ahead. It is a Loader, it was designed to lift and wasn't really designed for side loads. As I am sure you are aware, it is usually difficult to find an attach point to pull from directly ahead. Also if the bucket is at any height, you have a lever arm that will be above the CG and a off angle pull could pull your tractor over on it's side. I think the FEL is better used to dig in and push with the bucket curl when you are stuck.

I think you would be better served with prepping some short lengths of chain that can pass thru the rear wheel and around the tire. To that chain you attach a longer chain or cable back to an anchor point. By putting the tractor in low low range and locking the rear differential, the wheel will act like a winch drum and the tractor tire/wheel will roll back up the chain dragging the tractor behind it. This of course only works well backward.

If you are getting stuck routinely enough to need a winch, perhaps you have the wrong tool for the job/terrain.

Ron

 

[Kendall69]

I mounted a winch on the front of my vehicle, this way I can get many more thing unstuck than just the tractor.

It’s more useful for me since the vehicle is always near the tractor anyway, but now I can get my drive around vehicle also out - and any neighbors that may get stuck.

A good winch wish will run around a grand and I didn’t want it to be on the tractor for a single use.

 

[lug nut]

I have a 12k winch mounted on the front of my off road toy, which is a '79 Bronco that weighs probably 5,000 lbs or more. I have been stuck in some pretty nasty stuff, and I have had to use the snatch block several times to get myself out. One particularly bad day, it took 5 trucks and 3 winches to pull me out when I was so deep that my doors were scraping the mud/sand when I opened them.

It is true that a tractor's electrical system is not nearly enough to operate a large winch. It takes a large alternator and/or a very good battery or two.

 

[Mike120]

The only time I get stuck lately is when the ruts develop, fill with water and I wander into a deep one. When the belly drags, the wheels spin and I'm stuck. I have a short piece of chain with hooks on each end that I hook to the wheel. I lift the wheel with my high-lift jack sitting on a piece of 4X6, throw another piece of 4X6 under the tire, jack her down and go do the other side. Once the belly is out of the mud I can usually drive right out of the hole. Usually takes about a half an hour, I get covered with mud, but I can get out. I just did it this morning and unless all this rain stops, I expect I'll be doing it some more 'cause I'm running out of places without ruts to drive on and I need to feed twice a day.

I tried a winch once. It was rated at 7K and I hooked it to my F-350 dually. My tractor weighs over 5K and all the winch did was drag the F-350 closer to the tractor. The tractor didn't budge. Winches are great ideas, but you need to have an unmovable object to hook them to and the winch probably needs to be rated about double the weight of the tractor......

 

[milkman]

I got a 4K winch from HF with a wired remote for $49.95, not to use on my tractor, but I think it would work, as far as the alternator goes, they don't hook to the aternator, they draw from the battery and the alternator recharges the battery, they use them on atv's and their alternators are also small so I don't see a problem there, they are for short bursts of use and the battery will run them for quite a while. With a remote, I think the winch and the tractor would get you out of a pretty good mud hole.

 

[RonMar]

I got a 4K winch from HF with a wired remote for $49.95, not to use on my tractor, but I think it would work, as far as the alternator goes, they don't hook to the aternator, they draw from the battery and the alternator recharges the battery, they use them on atv's and their alternators are also small so I don't see a problem there, they are for short bursts of use and the battery will run them for quite a while. With a remote, I think the winch and the tractor would get you out of a pretty good mud hole.

Any load applied to the battery is also applied to the alternator and the alternator needs to make up the current used by the winch when it is done depleting the battery. This will take a long long time at a 20 amp alternator output. That big winch motor is going to look like an electrical short to the alternator and produce a large voltage drop that the regulator will try to make up for by putting the alternator to full output. Imagine how long your CUT alternator would last using it for an arc welder.

That 4K winch on a guad(300-400#) is not working nearly as hard as a winch on a 2500# tractor would be. The power output on most quad alternators is probably as great as your typical CUT electrical system.

 

[the6shooter]

The winch was for an assist, not to drag the hole load, the tractor only weighs 3500 lbs. With 12' leads I could sit in the seat and the winch would only assist. My situation was, I know I was stuck, I just mad it worse. when the thing was first stuck, I would have had just alittle more help, I wouldn't have needed to pay for the recovery. Besides, it was just an idea. but I do have the perfict spot to mount one.
david


P.s. please don't tell me no one has stuck a corner of their brushhog in the mud a time or two, and didn't get the tires spinning.

 

[milkman]

Any load applied to the battery is also applied to the alternator and the alternator needs to make up the current used by the winch when it is done depleting the battery. This will take a long long time at a 20 amp alternator output. That big winch motor is going to look like an electrical short to the alternator and produce a large voltage drop that the regulator will try to make up for by putting the alternator to full output. Imagine how long your CUT alternator would last using it for an arc welder.

That 4K winch on a guad(300-400#) is not working nearly as hard as a winch on a 2500# tractor would be. The power output on most quad alternators is probably as great as your typical CUT electrical system.

Nope, the load is applied to the battery, it does not short the alternator, the alternator sees the battery being depleted and supplies 20 amps of juice (if it's a 20 amp alt.) till the battery is fully charged again.

 

[bx23barry]

I'd put it on the rear instead of the front. Don't want to pull yourself into the mud but back out of it. I receiver mounted winch could be mounted on the front/rear of your tractor/truck/trailer... I would use "welding cable" type connectors for the battery lead hook-ups.

 

[RonMar]

Nope, the load is applied to the battery, it does not short the alternator, the alternator sees the battery being depleted and supplies 20 amps of juice (if it's a 20 amp alt.) till the battery is fully charged again.

Yes, it does! The regulator on the alternator sees anything outside it's regulated voltage range as a short or an open and goes to full or no output. The battery may be in there as a shock absorber, but when you are talking about the high current draws(hundreds of amps) of a winch motor under load, you are going to see a very large voltage drop at the battery and in turn the alternator, just like you would if you shorted the battery hot lead to ground. Yes, the alternator will go to full output. And that 20 amp alternator can probably put out a bit more than 20 amps if the engine RPM is up and it's regulator runs the field winding to full current, which it will do in a futile attempt to maintain the battery voltage at 14.5VDC. This heavy load will be hard on the alternator. The regulators also don't like large voltage swings as it forces them to deal with large swings in field current.

There is no free lunch! The battery dosn't make energy, it merely stores it That alternator will have to make up every amp hour that the winch sucks out. It will run at maximum output the whole time the winch is running, and continue to provide full output untill the battery charge voltage is built back up. 200 amps for 5 minutes is about 16 amp/hours. It will take the 20 amp alternator at full output more than 45 minutes to make up for it.

I doubt the manufacturer rated that little 20 amp alternator at a 100% duty cycle. A lot of these little guys don't even have airflow openings. They rely on thermal radiation thru the case since they are rated for small current draws. It was chosen based on cost vs profit to meet a particular need with a reasonable reliability(live thru the typical warranty period). I doubt the design considerations included an electric winch. But what the hey, it is only money and CUT alternators are cheap right?

 

[sandman2234]

Well, if electric winches aren't everyones idea of the right way, then how about a hydraulic motor turning a winch?
Seems like you could put quick couplers on each end and store the hoses when not needed, and have a great way of pulling it out.
As far as comealongs go, I have a 6 ton and it has pulled my JD2555 out more times then I care to think about. A couple lengths of chain and that comealong and out it comes, with no assist from the tractor. All I need is something strong enough to hook to. The one ton Ford and my half ton Chevy p/u together make a good anchor, been there, done that.
I almost got that Ford stuck today, cleaning out a perculation pond. I didn't realize just how soft it was till it was too late. I can just imagine 10,000 pounds, duals, 4x4 and what it would take to get it out.
David from jax

 

[RonMar]

Hydraulic, Now that is a cool idea...

 

[Jstpssng]

If you have a bucket, why do you need a winch? I pulled myself out many times with the bucket; either by dropping it and pulling, or using a chain to a nearby anchor. As I get more accustomed to the limitations of my tractor, I find I spend more time working, and less time trying to get back to work.