That Never Ending T&T Path!

[Henro]

<font color="blue"> I'm surprised it took you guys 3-1/2 hours to shoot me in the foot for that pun. </font>

PineRidge,

I'm just guessing with respect to your end...but it might not have been the foot that was hit... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Then again...here hitting the foot would be no worse or better than any other part of the body... /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Age related, I wonder...??? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Man I hope I can report more on my T&T setup soon...

 

[Gary_in_Indiana]

<font color="blue"> 'I'm surprised it took you guys 3-1/2 hours to shoot me in the foot for that pun. I really deserved it much sooner than that." </font> /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Actually, from the time I read it, the time was something under 3-1/2 SECONDS! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[HayDR]

We have just specially purchased the components for a Top and Tilt system. All the Cylinders have double piloted check valves.
Joy stick control valves with a system. This system is priced 20-50% below systems mentioned on TBN. Due to a special purchase, these systems are in limited quantities.
<font color="blue"> $600 </font>

 

[Henro]

Well, I STILL have not ordered hoses. I think I will order them before the end of the week though.

In the meantime I decided on the location of the quick disconnects. The goal is a clean installation, and having things out of the way in the event I want to run without the hydraulic cylinders on for some reason that I can't perceive at the moment.

So...attached is a photo of the placement of the quick disconnects. They will function as follows, right to left in the photo. Right tilt, top link, float section (to be shared with left tilt and top link when desired), and left tilt.

Wonder if I will see the top and tilt functioning before spring???

 

[MadReferee]

I hope you have enough clearance behind the seat for the hoses, especially if you have to bend any of them. 3/8" hose does not make sharp bends. Using an appropriate 45 or 90 degree fitting might solve these issues but since you have all the connections on the same plane, some bending will most likely be in order.

 

[Henro]

<font color="blue"> I hope you have enough clearance behind the seat for the hoses... </font>

I think all should be OK, as I will use 90 degree adapters on the back of the bulkhead fittings,and expect very little bending of the hoses will be needed...

Time will tell though. Also plan on using 1/4 inch hoses for the most part. The float valve may use 3/8, but I am not sure yet. I don't foresee the need for much flow on any of these remotes, but it might not hurt to have one that could carry the full hydraulic flow, in case I want to use it for something like a hydraulic motor in the future...

 

[MadReferee]

Even stacking them on top of each other might present problems, especially on the right side where they will bunch up to go up to the valve.

I have one spool using 3/8" hose and fittings and the other 2 spools using 1/4" hose and fittings. Most stuff you get from rental yards for smaller tractors have 3/8" fittings. The big stuff has 1/2" but that is way too big for my and your Kubotas.

 

[Henro]

I left my camera down in the shed...have to post some pictures later... /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Turned out that once I had all my hoses, I did a test of how they would fit inside a 3" pipe, and it looked like it would be impossible to pull them through one at a time, so I changed the pipe and used 4" ABS. Makes little difference really and now that it is in place, it "feels" just like the old, smaller pipe did.

I will have to go back and see what the last picture I posted was, but I made a blunder in my placement of my quick disconnects. The mistake was that I did not consider the fact that when tilt is used, the top link cylinder also moves to the side, in addition to up and down. My placement of two pairs of disconnects in the back middle of the rear of the tractor will not work. The top link cylinder wants to push them out of the way when one of the tilt cylinders is extended. So I have to remove them and mount them somewhere else.

These two pairs of outlets are for the top link, and the valve section with float, that is available to be used with either a tilt cylinder or the top link cylinder...

I think I can recover from this mistake without too much pain, but will have to report back later on that.

I did try all three cylinders and can see that I am going to love having the T&T up and running. The float on the tilt cylinder looks VERY promising. I could have tried it this evening but did not think to, as the above mentioned problem with my placement of the two center remotes was on my mind.

It will be nice being able to retract both tilt cylinders and find 3PH level without thinking about it. When the top link is plugged into the float capable quick disconnects, the float looks very promising and works well even with a light KK rear blade on the hitch.

Tomorrow I will have to put my backhoe on before deciding on where to move those remotes to, given the restraints of fixed, existing hose lenghts...

All in all I am pretty happy with what I have seen so far, except for my inability to perceive all the angles... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[MadReferee]

Just an FYI for future reference,

I had a long chat this morning with the guy from DiscountHydraulicHose regarding R2 vs R16 1/4" hose. After checking the specs on these two hoses I found that the minimum bend for R16 was 2" while R2 was 4". He indicated that in order to get the sharper turn radius the R16 hose has a slightly thinner outside covering with everything else remaining the same. This means it shouldn't be used in applications where abrasion would be a factor.

Since my snowblower chute deflector project needed maximum flexibility because the hose will rotate 180 degrees as the chute is rotated I needed to know the pros and cons of each hose. I went with R16 since this is a light duty application that needed flexibility. Price difference was 2 cents per foot.

 

[Henro]

MadRef,

Thanks for that info. Could be very useful in the future to me and/or others here.

I had to use the R2 (and did not know anything about the R16 until your post) because of my desire to use reuseable ends on one end of each of my hoses, since I had no idea how to specify the hose lenght I needed without first threading it in place and marking it. So I bought long hoses with crimped ends on them, and cut them into two sections for use with reusable ends on the cut ends...

That certainly is a huge difference in the bend radius for the same size ID. Certainly could be very useful in some applications.

 

[MadReferee]

Well, I got my hoses today from DiscountHydraulicHose and they screwed them up. Wrong connectors. Now we will see how their customer service is. I'll call in the morning.

BTW, the R16 hose is visually smaller in diameter than the R2. It's flexible enough so I can just about tie a knot in the hose.

If flexibility is what you need and heavy duty abrasion is not an issue, R16 will fill the bill quite nicely.

 

[Henro]

One of the hoses I got was damaged close to where the end was crimped on. They sent a replacement as soon as I called. Actually they sent some wrong end connectors too as I recall.

They gave me their account number to send back the wrong/damaged stuff at thier cost, and also sent out what was right at no charge to me.

I hope your experience is the same. I expect it will be, but we will not know until we hear your experience. I really hope your experience is as good as mine, since all of us here at TBN could use a reliable source of hose and fittings who has reasonable prices. I get the impression this place is good, but time will tell I suppose.

Hope it all works out...

 

[8561]

Mad - I had been looking at the R16 the other day at discounthydraulichose. I thought it mentioned it was not appropriate for outdoor use, so I double checked tonight, sure enough, it said R16 is not for outdoor use. It is noted in the catalog section under the description. Obviously, I have no idea if that limitation is due to a cold weather restriction (although it specs at -40F to 212F) or possibly a UV exposure problem. I don't even know if use in this appication on a tractor is considered "outdoor" or if it applies more directly to a use that would have it exposed to the elements 24/7/365. Just thought I'd point it out.

 

[MadReferee]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Obviously, I have no idea if that limitation is due to a cold weather restriction (although it specs at -40F to 212F) or possibly a UV exposure problem. I don't even know if use in this appication on a tractor is considered "outdoor" or if it applies more directly to a use that would have it exposed to the elements 24/7/365.)</font>

I did talk about this with the sales guy. He said it was mainly ment to be for uses where the hose would be coming in contact with something else, like another hose or for continuous exposure to the elements. Since my application is for a snowblower that is not used outdoors everyday, R16 will be ok. Now for a dozer or a tractor that is being used in the fields 8-10 hours a day every day that might be a different story.

1/4" R16 is industrial strength 5000 psi hose with a thinner outside wall (actually .02" thinner, yes that's 20 thousanths) to allow for sharper bends. The outer covering is the same material as R2, just not as thick. IF your application requires a sharp bend then by all means use R16. For the average homeowner's CUT I think R16 will be fine and last several (4-5) years if not more.

 

[Henro]

Just wanted to report that I got the credit on my credit card for the hoses and stuff that was not shipped, but was charged to my card.

I only disputed $285, but the credit came to $307. Not sure why...I will assume that HHF gave them that number and I'm not complaining...Maybe it cost less to ship the small box of fittings that I received than I estimated.

Also, I did get the T&T up and running a few days ago.

Will post some photos and an update as soon as I get around to it. I am pretty satisfied with things, now just need a reason to use the tractor... /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[txdon]

So, now that you are progressing through the normal tractor ownership attachments are you ready to dapple and tackle the grapple? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Henro]

I’m happy to report that except for some final hose length adjustments, I am pretty much done with the T&T project. Working backward again, here is the end result. I am not sure when this much tilt would ever be needed, but I guess having the capability can’t hurt.

This is 4” of tilt on one side. Each side can tilt equally since I used two identical cylinders. When I bring both cylinders to the top position, I know without thinking that the implement is level.

The Prince control valves with the built in pilot-operated check valves click pretty loudly when activated and seem to work well.

Float on a tilt cylinder looks promising. I think adding it was a plus. Have only done limited testing so far. I should know more after we get some snow.

Now on to confess my errors in the project.

 

[Henro]

But first, for B2910 and B2710 owners that may be out there, here is a picture of the adapter block that is used for the rear remotes. I though it was going to be a pain to install, but it ended up being a piece of cake installation. It went on so easy, it is not worth talking about…

 

[Henro]

A shot of the hoses leaving the adapter block and heading to the control valve. Again, probably of no interest to those with different tractors.

 

[Henro]

4” stroke on one lift arm makes a huge difference in elevation at the ends. I bet 2” would be enough tilt, but I was glad I ended up with 4” only because of the heat travelling down the cylinder rod when I welded on the ends.

If one was able to weld and cool the rod enough not to worry about the cylinder seals, my guess is that a 2” cylinder on each side would be enough. Still, no regrets so far as far as I go.