This, that, and the other

[patrick_g]

I'm curious... The tall fence... are they keeping things (people or other animals) out or in? I haven't seen fence like that since I was looking at a buffalo pasture. A fence like that and you wonder if they were going to bid on a DOC contract.

Pat

That's standard eight foot board on board cedar privacy fence here in North Texas. Well, except the posts are pipe and not tubing, the post holes are three feet deep and twelve inches across instead of two by eight, etc and so on.

Our trees aren't that big. I'd guess eighteen to twenty inches at ten feet at best. I'll post some pictures tonight.

Harv, I'm sorry, I wasn't clear or more specific. I was referring to the tall wire fence with barbed wire on top (and on bottom?) Wondered what it kept in or out.

I am putting up 48 inch graduated field fence with a single strand of 4 point barbed wire on top to discourage stock from trying to reach over the top. I hadn't ever thought about putting a strand at the bottom but can see some advantages. Keep wire off the dirt so it lasts longer and the barbed wire will discourage trying to feed through the fence at the bottom. I'd down size to 42 inch if I put a strand at the bottom as that would be made up by that bottom strand.

Ordinarily, since I an not using the cedar for structural stuff, just for its looks, in order to make it easy at the mill, I just have them just saw it as it sits, no quarter sawing or other strategies, just slabs with the bark on that I can rip to dimension. Sometimes since one of the mills I use has lots of hydraulics I have the logs cut into dimensional lumber of my preferred sizes. Most mills, when cutting dimensional lumber cut off slabs with bark to square up the cant. They give me that stuff for free just to get rid of it. I will be using it for rustic wainscot.

Pat

 

[MF1455v]

Harvey, I sure would like to see some pictures of that powder coating process. Sounds very interesting. Looking foward to seeing the finished product to.

Both houses look great.

James

 

[wroughtn_harv]

Pat, that wasn't one of my fences. The deal is I have a friend who wanted to have a substantial barrier between his sixty acres and the blacktop road. So him and some friends set the posts and then I believe they realized stretching eight foot fence was beyond their capabilities.

I stepped in with my wife and stretched it, about eleven hundred feet. The gate of course is mine.

My perspective on livestock fencing is the smaller the pen the more substantial the fence. I don't recommend field fence for anything but cattle on large pastures. Your believing barbwire will keep livestock off of a fence I think is wishfull thinking. I've watched a large bull walk through a barbwire fence. It was painfull for me to watch him stuff his head and shoulders between two strands of barbwire and then the rest of him following. There was a part of me that literally ached at what could happen to some parts of his anatomy going through that fence. The only thing that will keep livestock off of a fence is electricity and or the grass being greener on the inside. If I was going to fence in pastures or property lines and it was my property I'd go with five foot high. Four foot goat fence fabric with two or three strands of barbwire on top would work.

I recommend at least five foot fence for horses for the same reason, intimidation. If it's less than five foot high they might consider an attempt to go over it. Five feet or more and they won't even consider it.

Those pieces of cedar made the first cut are sure pretty. I've wondered why someone hasn't started marketing those for vertical accents in rustic rooms. One of those floor to ceiling would give the appearance of log beams. Using the knots and flaws to a decorative advantage would really enhance some decors.

 

[wroughtn_harv]

Harvey, I sure would like to see some pictures of that powder coating process. Sounds very interesting. Looking foward to seeing the finished product to.

Both houses look great.

James

I'll try to snap some photos of it when we're having our pieces powdercoated.

I had three James Smiths in my life. The one in Whitewright passed away this year. He was one ingenious great welding workaholic. The one in Oklahoma is doing fine and I hope you are too.

 

[wroughtn_harv]

Yesterday I took a picture of a before where we're going to be putting the first big timber entryway. I also took a shot of the logs we cut Friday.

 

[patrick_g]

I had three James Smiths in my life. The one in Whitewright passed away this year. He was one ingenious great welding workaholic. The one in Oklahoma is doing fine and I hope you are too.

Harv, "MY" James Smith was a B-17 Tail gunner in the Eighth Air Force flying out of England to bomb Germany in WW II and was later a fireman, PI, homicide investigator, mountaintop radio relay service provider, ham radio enthusiast, and amateur historian and genealogical researcher and a Patriotic American.

He was a member of, attended conventions of, and had a subscription to the magazine of THE JIM SMITH CLUB a social club comprised of folks named Jim Smith. I'm curious if any of your Jim Smiths were members.

Pat

 

[Bird]

The Jim Smith that I knew best was a member of the Jim Smith Club, was owner of what was probably the best of 19 wrecker companies towing for the City, and owner of the last Mobil service station in Dallas to actually provide full service.

 

[patrick_g]

My perspective on livestock fencing is the smaller the pen the more substantial the fence. I don't recommend field fence for anything but cattle on large pastures. Your believing barbwire will keep livestock off of a fence I think is wishfull thinking. I've watched a large bull walk through a barbwire fence. It was painfull for me to watch him stuff his head and shoulders between two strands of barbwire and then the rest of him following. There was a part of me that literally ached at what could happen to some parts of his anatomy going through that fence. The only thing that will keep livestock off of a fence is electricity and or the grass being greener on the inside. If I was going to fence in pastures or property lines and it was my property I'd go with five foot high. Four foot goat fence fabric with two or three strands of barbwire on top would work.

I recommend at least five foot fence for horses for the same reason, intimidation. If it's less than five foot high they might consider an attempt to go over it. Five feet or more and they won't even consider it.

The 48 inch graduated field fence (Red Brand) with a strand of 4 point barbed wire on top is for fencing in pregnant cows and heifers and their newborn calves. My corrals and chutes are all pipe with cable and or sucker rod. I will be putting a couple strands of hot wire with a 12KV+ from a low impedance charger on it at intermediate heights on the inside side of the graduated field fence to keep them off the fence.

The really powerful charger will keep the stock from pushing on the fence. I prefer field fence around a neighbors house whose lot is surrounded by my pastures and also I prefer it along the highway where newborns will be, as much for keeping dogs out in both instances as calves in. Otherwise I use 5 and 6 strand 4 pt barbed wire fences with stays between posts with excellent results.

I will be trying something new soon, 3 rail vinyl "stock fence." I will be drilling the posts to accept a hot wire between the bottom and middle rail and between the middle and top rail. The wire will not be too easily noticed and not an eyesore detracting from the looks of the fence but should keep stock from pushing on the fence trying to reach a blade of grass on the other side.

I have had neighbor's bulls and bulls on my place just walk through 5 good strands of barbed wire to get at each other. If they start "bulling" at each other the fence required to separate them is not as cost effective as letting them get through and then later fixing the fence. At least my neighbors and I have never been too upset as it is just the way things are and accept it as an alternative to immensely expensive fencing. I have a mile of fence between my and neighbor's stock.

Pat

 

[patrick_g]

The Jim Smith that I knew best was a member of the Jim Smith Club, was owner of what was probably the best of 19 wrecker companies towing for the City, and owner of the last Mobil service station in Dallas to actually provide full service.

Bird, can you imagine the chaos that ensues when hundreds of Jim Smiths show up in Vegas for one of their conventions? Every one of them wearing a sticker that says, "HI, My name is Jim Smith." Then one of them goes to the hotel desk and has Jim Smith paged to take a call at the White Phone! ...or how about the hostess at a restaurant who gets 50 reservations for Jim Smith, all of which show up and sign in and the confusion about which Jim Smith gets the next free table...

Full service... There are still stations around here, well... in Shawnee and other large metropolitan areas exceeding a population of a thousand who offer full service at an increased price. (considerably increased)

Pat

 

[scgargoyle]

Any recommendations for keeping (potentially) bad dogs out? The neighbor on one side of my property in SC has two pit bulls that seem to think my land belongs to them. Once I start working up there, I'll carry a sidearm, but I'd like to be able to work without watching over my shoulder.

 

[MF1455v]

Harvey, thanks for asking. I'm doing good. Hope you and Glenda are doing well. Still way to busy with the new job, moving and trying to sell the house in Princeton. The move is getting close to being done so things should start to slow down in a few months.
Been in need of a good stress releaving project for a while now. New house is full of optunities. We have several ceder trees that have to go, so your projects here are giving Barb some ideas for me.

As for the James Smith thing, I had an instructor in tech school that kept asking me to tell him me real name. My responce was, if I was going to use an alias, it would be more believable than James Smith.

James

 

[Defective]

Any recommendations for keeping (potentially) bad dogs out? The neighbor on one side of my property in SC has two pit bulls that seem to think my land belongs to them. Once I start working up there, I'll carry a sidearm, but I'd like to be able to work without watching over my shoulder.

Have you had a face to face meeting with the dogs in question? How about the owner? Despite their reputation, some pitts can actually be friendly and harmless. It's usually the ones that belong to idiots that think having a tough dog is cool you need to worry about & a bullet will solve that problem easily.

Around here, the bylaws say all dogs get tied. The realities say farm dogs get trained instead. Anybody with dogs not trained to stay home understands that strays have short lives.

On the other hand, my wifes brainless little beagle gets picked up & transported home by the neighbours when she gets off her lead. It all depends on the community & how well you get along with your neighbours...

 

[patrick_g]

scgargoyle, Sometimes it is hard to tell which are the BAD DOGS. Sometimes the sweetest little good with kids, wouldn't harm a flea, lover not a fighter, never runs loose dogs when in groups of 3 or more REVERT to their DEEP INGRAINED programing which is a a wolf, a member of a pack whose reason for existence is to find prey and kill it.

Unfortunately our area is a favored one for dumping pets. A local resident (not marching to a drummer anyone else hears) has kept up to 25 dogs at a time, mostly allowed to run loose. They breed indiscriminately and have caused problems. Many have been shot while running abroad. She doesn't keep nearly as many lately.

Around here (many rural residents are cattle producers) any dog running loose is fair game for a willing shooter. I was considering drawing a bead on a dog in the tall grass in my pasture when I recognized it as "Spot" a friend's dog and stood down. Spot does not pack up nor does she chase cattle and has been raised with them. I have had a pair of lab pups (6-8 months) swimming in the ponds in my back yard. They were harmless and left. My general policy is to let a single stray not causing harm and apparently just passing through, just drift on through. Multiple dog groups (pack) though rarely seen on my place are subject to summary execution if I have the means at hand and I usually do as I carry a sidearm and or rifle and or shotgun.

I am not motivated to fence my entire perimeter with dog proof fence. My property adjoins two other cattle producers, neither of which wants to participate in dog proof fence. They both have a "shoot trouble makers" policy. I am surrounding a lady's house who has a 1.2 acre lot, a bite out of my property, with graduated field fence to keep stock (especially calves who can get through a 5 wire fence) out of her yard and of the state highway. This fence will also allow her dogs the opportunity to not be shot messing with my cattle. I am putting the same fence on a little less than a quarter mile of my highway frontage to likewise keep calves off the highway and dogs out of the pasture.

Pit bulls get a lot of press, mostly bad, but usually deserved and they serve no useful or lawful purpose not better served by other breeds with less risk associated. I would be STRONGLY inclined to shoot any pit bull on my property, especially if it so much as looked in my direction.

If some social expediency intervened I'd put up dog proof fence and put the dog owner on notice that I put the fence there as much to protect his dog as the free use of my property and would appreciate his assistance in keeping the dog on his side of it but if his dog gets past the fence I will try to kill it.

If the dog owner was not entirely a jerk (one strike against you for having a pit bull) I'd invite him to participate in the cost or effort of the installation of the dog proof fence, letting him know that I intend to shoot the dog anytime I have a chance and the dogs feet are on my property.

Know in advance that people consider their dogs surrogate children and may be more protective of them than their actual children. Sometimes it might be better to do what you have to do on your own property and not comment on it in advance or after the fact. I can see how in some instances a dog's just going missing would be a better situation than the owner knowing you shot it.

Pat

 

[scgargoyle]

There may not be a problem at all- I'm just wondering. I haven't met the neighbor yet (I currently live 600 miles away) or the dogs. He keeps his place looking nice, and the dogs likewise look well kept. People out in the country are a lot more inclined to let their dogs run. He has 11 acres; I have 7, so they have plenty of room. Our property hasn't been touched (until recently) for 23 years, so having dogs/people cut through would be no surprise. So far the dogs have just barked, but the last time, they came towards us, although not fast. The problem is knowing what their intentions are. As a teen, I was tore up pretty bad by a springer spaniel that knew me. Two pit bulls in a rage would kill an un-armed man in the woods. I thought of carrying mace or a stun gun, since I would hate to kill a dog, but those won't necessarily stop a pit bull. As a matter of fact, it just makes them angrier if they are in the attack mode. Even a bullet may not stop them right away. My plan is to introduce myself to the neighbor, inquire about the dogs in a friendly manner, and see how it goes. I still plan to fence some of the property, both to keep my critters in, and keep other critters out. Plus, I figure if a dog breaches or jumps the fence, I'm well within my rights to protect my property. Without a fence, the dogs are simply doing what they've grown accustomed to doing. I'd like to get along with the neighbors, or at least try to.

 

[Defective]

Sounds, to me, like you're approaching this with exactly the right attitude. I wouldn't be surprised, from your description, if your new neighbour turns out to be willing to work with you on this.

 

[weldingisfun]

Multiple dog groups (pack) though rarely seen on my place are subject to summary execution if I have the means at hand and I usually do as I carry a sidearm and or rifle and or shotgun.

I would be STRONGLY inclined to shoot any pit bull on my property, especially if it so much as looked in my direction.

If some social expediency intervened I'd put up dog proof fence and put the dog owner on notice that I put the fence there as much to protect his dog as the free use of my property and would appreciate his assistance in keeping the dog on his side of it but if his dog gets past the fence I will try to kill it.
If the dog owner was not entirely a jerk (one strike against you for having a pit bull) I'd invite him to participate in the cost or effort of the installation of the dog proof fence, letting him know that I intend to shoot the dog anytime I have a chance and the dogs feet are on my property.

Know in advance that people consider their dogs surrogate children and may be more protective of them than their actual children. Sometimes it might be better to do what you have to do on your own property and not comment on it in advance or after the fact. I can see how in some instances a dog's just going missing would be a better situation than the owner knowing you shot it.
Pat

Pat, not meaning any disrespect nor criticism, but you should heed your own words. The one's in blue. Avoid using the words red ones in public. They could come back to haunt you.

 

[txdon]

Harvey, I just found this thread. TBN really needs to give you your own forum heading.

The wood trim on the house, of the gate project, will really stand out with a big wood entrance. I'll be following the progress. I need to get started on ours since Karen started back to work, the opening and closing of the gate especially in the dark is a real PIB. I'll start on the preliminaries, finding the utility lines, and getting the materials to the property (that will take about a month). You talked about several interesting projects you have going on right now so I'll take it slow and get as much of the mundane work out of the way as possible. If you get too busy up there you might have to teach me via internet. Be sure to tell us all the size and lengths of the materials you are using as you do this project. This will be fun!

 

[EddieWalker]

... the opening and closing of the gate especially in the dark is a real PIB.

Don,

Does this signal the beginnings of a new Don/Harvey project?

The only thing better then one of you guys posting a project is when the two of you get together!!!!!!!!

Eddie

 

[rtdiggr]

Don,

Does this signal the beginnings of a new Don/Harvey project?

The only thing better then one of you guys posting a project is when the two of you get together!!!!!!!!

Eddie

You see Eddie if you get all your 2008 jobs done in the first week of January, then you can sit back for the next 51weeks.

Shane

 

[wroughtn_harv]

Harvey, I just found this thread. TBN really needs to give you your own forum heading.

The wood trim on the house, of the gate project, will really stand out with a big wood entrance. I'll be following the progress. I need to get started on ours since Karen started back to work, the opening and closing of the gate especially in the dark is a real PIB. I'll start on the preliminaries, finding the utility lines, and getting the materials to the property (that will take about a month). You talked about several interesting projects you have going on right now so I'll take it slow and get as much of the mundane work out of the way as possible. If you get too busy up there you might have to teach me via internet. Be sure to tell us all the size and lengths of the materials you are using as you do this project. This will be fun!

Just yesterday on our way home from OKC and Christmas with the kids Glenda asked about when we were going to Lee county to visit with Don and Karen and do their gate.

In the next couple of weeks we'll be doing two different entrys with the timbers. You and Karen will have to watch and then decide the best of both of those that will work at your place. Then we'll have to come down there and do it.