Three day challenge

txdon

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Again, I'll say that if someone eats only junk food, while it may look like they're killing themselves, it's not suicide unless death is the intention.

So while they may in fact be slowly killing themselves through poor nutrition, it cannot be called suicide without the intent.

While it all sounds like semantics, it's not.

A call of self induced negligent homicide might be more accurate.
 

Fuddy1952

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He doesn't control his brother. I have a brother whose drinking has caused him many legal, financial and health problems over the years not to mention the heartache for the family. He has attended state mandated alcohol and anger management courses. He continues to drink despite these interventions and our pleas. The bottom line is that, his brother and mine, are responsible for their behaviors.
Thank you. You do understand.
 

Fuddy1952

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But the doctors have convinced the family that without alcohol he would die of DT. So to the family alcohol is the medicine that is keeping him alive. I think the family needs a doctor that will stop the alcohol and give assistance while he is going through DTs. Take the risk, for a better quality of life, death is eminent anyway.
" the family needs a doctor that will stop the alcohol"
Can you locate that doctor for me?
There is no such doctor. While Moon Pies do not equal alcohol, a diet of nothing BUT Moon Pies will kill you.
I appreciate all replies, but there isn't any easy answer, believe me. It's easy to say cut off the alcohol supply and problem is solved which isn't true for ten reasons.
 

GeneV

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Gene that law may vary from state to state. Our state, and my information is from physicians, paramedics, ER drs., police, etc.,to repeat...he cannot be taken from his home by force. He has committed no crime.
In our state it's not illegal for someone of age to drink as much as the wish in their own home.
I can't imagine living where any "authority" has the right to enter my home telling me when I've had enough.
The only way he could be taken by force is someone (wife, family member) would have to lie to authorities saying he was threatening them or himself (via suicide).
That was actually one of my plans suggested by a police officer. (Police officers aren't attorneys either). The downside of that is twofold: 1) he can only be held for evaluation only for a finite amount of time.
2) I risk getting in trouble committing perjury.

Al-anon...we've known since childhood about alcoholism. It would serve me no purpose.
Years ago before retirement I discovered our area AA center was across street from work.
I walked over, got literature and had talks with former alcoholics, the counselors.

Fuddy, it's not a matter of The Man laying down the law. Maybe I understood your post wrong, but per it I was under the impression your brother was fairly out of it, and the emt stated he required medical attention. So that's duty to act, because the patient is in no condition to make a rational decision.
 

drssg

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Q: Why do Al-Anon members have sex with their eyes closed?

A: Because they can't stand to see an alcoholic having a good time.
 

MossRoad

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But the doctors have convinced the family that without alcohol he would die of DT. So to the family alcohol is the medicine that is keeping him alive. I think the family needs a doctor that will stop the alcohol and give assistance while he is going through DTs. Take the risk, for a better quality of life, death is eminent anyway.

If he's bad enough, the DT's could kill him. Convulsions, heart attacks, high fever are some of the symptoms that can occur in some cases. The doctor was probably suggesting a way to wean him rather than cold turkey, which could kill him. The family probably can't get him to stay in the hospital long enough to get treated properly. DT's come on about 3 days after quitting. 1 day after quitting, he's sober enough to refuse treatment. So there you have it.

Delirium tremens - Wikipedia
 

drssg

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If he's bad enough, the DT's could kill him. Convulsions, heart attacks, high fever are some of the symptoms that can occur in some cases. The doctor was probably suggesting a way to wean him rather than cold turkey, which could kill him. The family probably can't get him to stay in the hospital long enough to get treated properly. DT's come on about 3 days after quitting. 1 day after quitting, he's sober enough to refuse treatment. So there you have it.

Delirium tremens - Wikipedia

That is what makes sense to me. I can't believe that the "doctor's orders" are to provide an invalid alcoholic with alcohol indefinitely.

The situation reminds me of the TLC TV shows with a morbidly obese bed-ridden person who is still eating a crap ton of food per day. Yes, he's responsible for his eating habits, but if he's physically incapable of getting his own food, then there are additional problems involved.
 

Fuddy1952

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Again...I sincerely appreciate responses. One thing I forgot to mention was the alcoholic friend (rip) said alcoholics become chemists and magicians Chemists to maintain that level of alcohol, magicians able to obtain, hide booze and appear lucid.
My brother is physically small, I'm quite a bit larger but if I tried drinking half his daily dose I couldn't.
The two things I do know is you can't 100% rely on Wiki, Google, or TV shows (it's all Hollywood).
My brother can put on a facade that you'd have to see to believe. When his wife called paramedics they called me. As they said if he refuses treatment, is coherent there's nothing they can legally do. Like they said "we cannot abduct him against his will".
Wife and said "we're on the way"...driving the 3.5 hours getting there. I know how to talk to him convincing him to go. It took the three of us getting him dressed and in the car. It was like walking a puppet, I basically carried him by his belt, wives on either side!
At hospital ER the Doctor on call was well versed with alcoholism. He was there a few hours, but the DTs started...I've never seen anyone shake so bad. His daughter & husband show up. We all pleaded with him...which was useless.
Outside looking in it's so easy to say do a,b,c,d.
It doesn't work that way. Yes, intervention works, and it's fantastic for those wanting to quit. He does not.
His wife has left him multiple times...all for naught.
Now...doctor's treatment: that's going to be different depending on the patient (age, liver damage, etc).
And yes, this post started out light-hearted. Three day challenge Feb 29,30,31!
So...in conclusion IMHO my brother is beyond hope. If he quit now the damage is done. What's so strange in my family my Dad's Dad drank, smoked cigars chewed tobacco with that cigar butt, was obese, no exercise and ate garbage food yet lived well into his 90s.
My Mom's Dad was a doctor...not only didn't drink alcohol but no soda! Never smoked, and exercised a lot. Great diet. Made it to 86.
My advice to anyone is to recognize the signs of addiction to anything! If someone enjoys a cigar and some alcohol once in a while...nothing wrong with that.
 

txdon

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Fuddy, thanks for sharing, I think we all understand the gravity of your situation and hope the best for you and your family.
 

GeneV

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Again...I sincerely appreciate responses. One thing I forgot to mention was the alcoholic friend (rip) said alcoholics become chemists and magicians Chemists to maintain that level of alcohol, magicians able to obtain, hide booze and appear lucid.
My brother is physically small, I'm quite a bit larger but if I tried drinking half his daily dose I couldn't.
The two things I do know is you can't 100% rely on Wiki, Google, or TV shows (it's all Hollywood).
My brother can put on a facade that you'd have to see to believe. When his wife called paramedics they called me. As they said if he refuses treatment, is coherent there's nothing they can legally do. Like they said "we cannot abduct him against his will".
Wife and said "we're on the way"...driving the 3.5 hours getting there. I know how to talk to him convincing him to go. It took the three of us getting him dressed and in the car. It was like walking a puppet, I basically carried him by his belt, wives on either side!
At hospital ER the Doctor on call was well versed with alcoholism. He was there a few hours, but the DTs started...I've never seen anyone shake so bad. His daughter & husband show up. We all pleaded with him...which was useless.
Outside looking in it's so easy to say do a,b,c,d.
It doesn't work that way. Yes, intervention works, and it's fantastic for those wanting to quit. He does not.
His wife has left him multiple times...all for naught.
Now...doctor's treatment: that's going to be different depending on the patient (age, liver damage, etc).
And yes, this post started out light-hearted. Three day challenge Feb 29,30,31!
So...in conclusion IMHO my brother is beyond hope. If he quit now the damage is done. What's so strange in my family my Dad's Dad drank, smoked cigars chewed tobacco with that cigar butt, was obese, no exercise and ate garbage food yet lived well into his 90s.
My Mom's Dad was a doctor...not only didn't drink alcohol but no soda! Never smoked, and exercised a lot. Great diet. Made it to 86.
My advice to anyone is to recognize the signs of addiction to anything! If someone enjoys a cigar and some alcohol once in a while...nothing wrong with that.

Hey Fuddy, no judgement on my part whatsoever, man! I'm sure you and your family are doing the best you can with all that. I was only commenting about the emt thing.
 
 
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