Tilt Meter

[Phred]

Guys,

Well I finally broke down and added a tilt meter. Actually I added two; one for side to side and one for front to back tilt. Should have done so long ago since much of my property is very steep.

I turns out the slopes that made me nervous (across slope) were only 10 degrees. As a result, I tended to be very conservative since the idea of flipping over one of these expensive machines is not very attractive to say the least.

The slopes tend to create run off that will create small "ditches". Hide one of these ditches/ruts under 6 ft tall brush and you have a problem.
The tilt meter and low gear makes a big difference. I highly recommend these meters.


Fred

 

[wichiwichi]

Why? Common sense will tell more than any meter or guage on the market. Seems to me like another gimic or add on that some just "have to have". Just my opinion.

 

[RBManufacturing]

Hi Guys,
Rick at R&B here. Just a little feed back on the tiltmeters.
A highway dept. we sell to recently had two roll-overs in two
days. They buy my meters exclusively. However, they just
leased new tractors and did not have meters mounted on
them yet. According to a district purchasing agent for the
highway dept., a directive was sent to all districts telling
all districts that ALL tractors must have a tiltmeter and
where to get them. R&B was the only approved supplier.
The highway dept. has been using my meters for 2 years.
According to the purchasing agent, the directive sent by the
safety engineer for the dept. advised that roll-overs had
reduced by over 70 percent since adding tiltmeters.

A large farm bureau insurance company placed their second
order last Monday. 100 more tiltmeters. They bought 100
last spring. They sell them to their clients for cost. Seems
roll-overs have gone down drastically.

A manufacturer of slope mowers just placed their third order
in the last 12 months. At first, they offered tiltmeters as an
option. No roll-overs by users. They have decided to put
a tiltmeter on ALL their mowers. No added cost to the buyers.

Seems like this GIMMICK is saving lives. Go figure.

A tiltmeter is not for everyone. They will not prevent a roll-over. A speedometer will not prevent speeding. Both are
guages for safe operation. My wife drives so slow she does
not need a speedometer. Some tractors are never used
on slopes. No need for a tiltmeter.

By the way, we sell to numerous highway depts. They come
back every year and buy more. Seems the GIMMICK works
well for them. Rick

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Hi guys,

The first impression I got from reading the first post in this thread yesterday, was that the gentleman [sorry, can't read your name as I write this], now that he got his tilt meter, might actually get himself in trouble, because it made him feel comfortable in a situation where he used to feel uncomfortable, and that as a result he might drive faster across that slope, and hit a rut/bump, and experience undesired results.

Rick seems to have become a bid defensive in his post...and does site some good uses for his tilt meters. I am sure they have prevented accidents...but my guess is that they are most useful when the operator of the equipment is entering "unknown" territory. If I were constantly running across new slopes, or old ones that I have not seen for a long time, I would without question want a tilt meter! Who would not? Could only help, and never hurt.

A new tractor/mower, in the hands of a new operator, especially one with little/no experience is an accident waiting to happen. All operators don't have built-in pucker factors! Having something with a red line that flags DANGER can certainly help save an injury or worse. Tell the newbie that if he gets into the red, he may flip over, and you have done him a great service and perhaps saved him a trip to the hospital [or funeral home] that could have been caused by ignorance/lack of experience.

Those new tractors that rolled might have rolled even with the tilt meters installed, if they were less stable by design than the ones the operators had previously been using...but probably not if there was a rule that the tractor absolutely should not be used on a slope exceeding "x" degrees. AND if that rule was followed by the operators...

A max degree rule in the work environment might give the operator a measured reason NOT to cut an area where in the past he would have been expected to. A reason to "just say no" that his supervison would have to listen to. An objective reason not to do it...that was reasonable.

To me, the value of the tilt meter increases greatly when the unknown is approached, and lessens when the tractor is operated on know areas where it [and the operator] has been many times. I am not sure how valuable one would be to me, since I have limited property [< 4 acres] and few unknowns...

Still...it would be nice to know how far the tractor was leaning...

But in my case, I keep getting an image in my mind of me sitting there puckering...at say 13 degrees...with the tilt meter edging me on...not to worry until I go those 2 more degrees into the red zone.../w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

I still feel like I would like to have one...not because I really need it, but because I would like to have something to calibrate my pucker factor with.

Bottom line is that tiltmeters seem to have more or less usefulness depending on the application.

Worst case, if one had the money to through at it, what's wrong with another gaget? Even if you only have a flat acre! Never know when you might want to do someone a favor...whose land is all slopes!

Personally...I doubt I will buy one any time soon...but ya' never know /w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif.

AND...I know this has all been said before! /w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif/w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif

But so has:

One can NEVER be too safe!

Bill in Pgh, PA

 

[MikePA]

<font color=blue>wichiwichi - Seems to me like another gimic...</font color=blue>

<font color=blue>macher - Rick seems to have become a bid defensive in his post...</font color=blue>

From <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.dictionary.com>Dictionary.com</A>
gim·mick n. A device employed to cheat, deceive, or trick, especially a mechanism for the secret and dishonest control of gambling apparatus.

I'd get a bit defensive, too. I'm sure that wasn't wichiwichi's intent, but if it was my company's product, one that I believed in and knew saved lives, I react the same way.

The TiltMeter would not only benefit excursions into unknown territory but also benefit inexperienced operators. If common sense were all that's needed, we'd never read about experienced farmers 'buying the farm' when their tractor rolls over on them.

If I were a supervisor of a grass cutting crew, I would much rather tell them, "If you see this gauge exceed xx degrees, get off the slope." versus "If you feel uncomfortable, get off the slope." However, if I were a wrongful death lawyer, I'd love to hear the second phrase in a deposition.

Whether or not a tractor is going to roll over has nothing to do with how someone feels, or what their CSPPF (Common Sense Personal Pucker Factor) is. For this illustration, assume that a slope of 20 degrees causes a roll over. Phred and Ethel approach the same slope. Phred was at 10 degrees when his CSPPF kicked in. Ethel's CSPPF kicks in at 19 degrees. Who's got the bigger margin for error? Who could have the downslope front wheel hit a ground hog hole and have a better chance of surviving with nothing more than a scare?

Yes, I have a TiltMeter. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Hi MikePA...this is BIllPA...maybe we are neighbors /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

I think I was making the same point as you were...not sure if you read it that way...

Bll in Pgh, PA...

 

[wichiwichi]

The intent was not to downgrade or downplay the product. I just see no use for them. I believe that someone could get in more trouble by watching the tilt meter than concentrating on the job at hand. It's like the old saying goes "you cannot protect somebody from themselves". No matter how many safety shields, warning labels, or safety devices you put on a piece of equipment there are people in this world who will manage to hurt themselves or others. Wether it's using it for other than its intended uses, "seeing what it can do", not paying attention or just plain carelessness. Growing up in the sw corner of WI, if we went by the tilt meter, half or more of our fields could not have been farmed. No matter what devices are installed, paying attention and common sense go a long way. Once again just my thoughts and opinion.

 

[MikePA]

Bill, yep I think we're on the same page! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif We're not quite neighbors, but I do spend a lot of time in Pgh, usually, at least once per month.

 

[Phred]

First I should have said that I have no affiliation with any company that makes these things. Just your average Joe that owns a tractor.

Second I have about 100 hours on my current machine and have used all sorts of other tractors, bobcats, miniexcavators, etc... The fact is that the feel of a slope is a function of the machine. On my current unit the operator sits up quite high and seems a lot more tipy than a compact tractor. However, they are alll designed for a 20 degree slope limit.

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

Why? Common sense will tell more than any meter or gauge on the market. Seems to me like another gimic or add on that some just "have to have". Just my opinion.

<hr></blockquote>



Nope. I don't believe that you can tell how much of a slope you are on by feel. This is a tool and low cost at that. So why would you oppose something that can't hurt and costs on the order of 0.1% of your tractor investment? In addition, as Rick says it simply provides info. In fact it seems to me that on some slopes I had underestimated the slope and on others had over estimated.

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

The first impression I got from reading the first post in this thread yesterday, was that the gentleman [sorry, can't read your name as I write this], now that he got his tilt meter, might actually get himself in trouble, because it made him feel comfortable in a situation where he used to feel uncomfortable, and that as a result he might drive faster across that slope, and hit a rut/bump, and experience undesired results.

<hr></blockquote>



I don’t think so. In fact I think most guys tend to get sloppy with time. The more time you spend on slopes the more comfortable you get with it and the more you push the edge. So the meter allows you to establish a quantitative level that will get you in to trouble. This level is independent of how you feel on the slope. Have you seen the post about the guy that loads the backhoe on the train car? Maybe after enough times through that process it might even start to make some sense. Not for me but maybe for some guys./w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

No matter how many safety shields, warning labels, or safety devices you put on a piece of equipment there are people in this world who will manage to hurt themselves or others.

<hr></blockquote>



I also hate the lawyers’ labels. You know the ones: don’t stick your foot under the mower, don’t stick your hand in the chipper, the coffee we serve is hot, etc…This stuff is all common sense.

The tilt meter, IMHO does not fall into that category. You can’t tell what is safe by feel.

Fred

 

[JackIL]

Fred,
A point of clarification about the statement that equipment is designed for a 20 degree side slope. To determine if the tractor passes the requirements of the ANSI sideslope standard, it is placed sideways on a tilt table. The tractor has no implements attached or mounted on it and no operator. Then the table is s..l..o..w..l..y raised and the table angle at which an up-hill wheel looses contact is noted. If this angle is less than the required number X in the standard, it passes the test.

This obviously doesn't account for dynamic effects such as a wheel dropping into a small hole or riding up over a small bump. It doesn't account for any implement or attachment or operator effects. All of the foregoing would tend to reduce the real stability limit. Thus it should not be assumed that when operating in the real world, the tractor would always be stable on a side slope of up to a limit of X degrees.

Jack

 

[tiltbed]

Phred,i believe this was discussed a while back..my opion then and still now would be tiltmeters are fine for Jeeps where extreme off road conditions are sought.Tractors would bring a false sence of safty..reason being that you have to many variations....tire size,weight,tire weight,fel equipt.equipt used..off set mower ect.The best tiltmeter for a tractor should be the operator`s gut feeling.when your hemorids are squeezed time to cut down hill....Sid

 

[Phred]

Jack,

Agreed. What I meant was that they all have to pass this test.
I did not mean to imply that this allows one to operate at 20 degrees.

Also I understand that attachments are critical to the roll over limit, since they alter the center of mass.
For example the loader raises the center of mass and makes the tractor more unstable.
Loaded tires and probably most 3-point attachments actually improve the situaition since they lower the center of mass.

Now if one removes any loader, limits themselves to 15 degrees, and uses common sense would not the meter be a benifit?

Clearly the operator must gauge a reasonable speed and be aware of any dips, tree stumps, etc.. that could alter the angle of the machine.

Fred

 

[RayIN]

I depended on my seat-of-pants to tell me when a slope was dangerous.
I used to mow the dam of dad's pond with his MF 135 & 6' bush hog, it was steep( probably 30%) so I only mowed downhill, then drive around the dam to the top again. Unless it was very dry the drive wheels would begin to slip about ½ way down, from there on it would begin to slip faster; so I used low gear and ½ throttle.
Thankfully dad had put the required woven wire fence about 30' from the bottom of the slope. This was enough room for the tractor to regain traction and still have room to turn and miss the fence.
He also had a MF 165 and a Farmall super M, I would never have mowed the dam with either of them, but that low profile 135 was just right.

Now I'm 82 and don't have the bravado to mow the dam any more. Guess I've lost that set of pants_.

 

[RjCorazza]

@RBManufacturing hasn't posted here in like 14 years, but many moons ago I bought and installed his tilt meter on my tractor. Moved it over to the next machine also. It's an accurate and quality instrument.
I get the comments (some from 2002) about experience and common sense, but I still like the data to confirm my seat of the pants assessment of a slope. I generally don't go side to side on slopes greater than 10 degrees. YMMV

 

[etpm]

The more time you spend on slopes the more comfortable you get with it and the more you push the edge. So the meter allows you to establish a quantitative level that will get you in to trouble.

The statement above is important. People tend to become complacent. I know I do and have the scar as a witness. You get more and more comfortable with a certain situation, push the limit one time, and have an accident. Hooray for the people who have that excellent common sense that most folks don't have. Why denigrate something that actually helps develop that common sense? Also, there is no way that sitting on a low tractor feels the same way as a high one, but the high one may actually be more stable and less likely to tip.
Eric

 

[RayIN]

@RBManufacturing hasn't posted here in like 14 years, but many moons ago I bought and installed his tilt meter on my tractor. Moved it over to the next machine also. It's an accurate and quality instrument.
I get the comments (some from 2002) about experience and common sense, but I still like the data to confirm my seat of the pants assessment of a slope. I generally don't go side to side on slopes greater than 10 degrees. YMMV

The company is still in business: R&B MFG. Inc | Slope Meter | Inclinometers | Percent Models | R&B MFG. INC

 

[caver]

Same here. I bought an RB tilt unit back around 2007 and moved it to a bigger tractor a few years later. I find sometimes the pucker factor is not there... yet glance at the gauge and yikers. My only complaint is the florescent paint faded from being in the sun. Too much crap in my barn for the past couple years to park the tractor inside.

 

[steve tym]

My problem seems to be just the opposite. I get creeped out on a side slope, then get out to look at it and a marble would hardly roll down it. Gonna go look at tilt meters now.

 

[steve tym]

There's argument over buying a $40 gauge?

 

[Smokeydog]

Have tilt gauges on past and current tractors. Reference helps. Not a substitute for safe operation. FEL and rear attachments greatly influence tractor stability.