Time for a new HVAC 5 ton - Help!

[TractorGuy]

My original Goodman was installed by a HVAC contractor hired by my home builder. When the compressor failed just before the 5 year warranty (back then) and the tech showed up to repair it he opened the case and found the owners manual I wasn't given at closing. Inside the manual was an offer from Goodman to extend the 5 year compressor warranty to parts AND labor for $20. The quote to replace the free compressor was a little over $400. I told the tech had I received the owners manual and seen the $20 offer I would have jumped on it. He called Goodman and explained that I hadn't been given the offer when the unit was installed. They told him to take my $20 and fix the unit. Events like that restore one's faith in fairness.

That same HVAC contractor quoted me 10 grand to replace the unit when it failed again 8 years later. I got a friend with a contractor license to broker the purchase and replaced it myself for $2300. So much for restored faith in fairness. That kind of markup for a 4 hour job should be a crime.

 

[Sigarms]

Yes, I get the news letter.... it also shows those that they have caught /swore out warrants for, due to performing HVAC work without being state licensed.
They may be still using Hitachi. I know that's what he installed in his home.
I used the GREE line of VRF in my home because my nephew (his son) is over tech support at nortek global

Edgetek | VRF Foundations

Always thought Nortek was Nordyne. Am I wrong or is there a new relationship between Gree and Nordyne?

 

[kenmac]

Always thought Nortek was Nordyne. Am I wrong or is there a new relationship between Gree and Nordyne?

Nortek global (from what my nephew tells me) is the VRF / VRV side of Nordyne. Which sells / Markets the Gree brand. Which also sold under several names, One of which is Mammouth

He produces several of these videos (like the one I posted) for training purposes

 

[Sigarms]

Nortek global (from what my nephew tells me) is the VRF / VRV side of Nordyne. Which sells / Markets the Gree brand. Which also sold under several names, One of which is Mammouth

I can only guess Nordyne made a deal with Gree to represent them in the US as anyone can follow the bread crumbs with Nortek Global online...



Thing is, Nordyne doesn't have a manufacturing VRF/VRV side in the US. The added caveat is Nordyne, like Goodman years ago, is still up for sale which no one has bought yet (Goodman sold to Daikin, Nordyne hasn't found a buyer yet). If your nephew could correct me, would greatly be appreciated.

This is where York/Hitachi screwed up IMO some years ago. Trane and Mitsubishi however are a legal joint "partner" now and you will find Rheem/Ruud in bed with Fujitsu.

 

[AllDodge]

Trane/American Standard is owned by Ingersol Rand, IR and Mit have 50/50 relationship for marketing and sales from what I'm reading.

 

[Sigarms]

Trane/American Standard is owned by Ingersol Rand, IR and Mit have 50/50 relationship for marketing and sales from what I'm reading.

Currently the realtionship helps 2nd party engineer companies/distribution who sell Trane via distribution in their local market on the commercial side (first hand fact from my own work).

General comment, but most contractors have no clue why you spend more money for a P series over an M series from Mitsubishi (it isn't because of the warranty). Ask your buddy, I'd honestly be suprised if he knew the answer. That said, if he's a Goodman guy, what does he sell for ductless?

The reality is in HVAC, when you come to a website like this, everyone is looking for a deal (cheaper the better). I get it. The reality is however, when you're in business, you're in business to make money and stand behind your work. However, 30% of the population is looking for the best price (AKA here), however, 70% of the population is looking for the best value on the money spent for a job. Most people don't have the luxury of knowing someone "good" in HVAC who can charge $1,000 for a job because the person quoting the work already has a full time job that covers all their benifits (including medical) so they don't have any overhead of running a legitimate company AND they can chage $1,000 and make money. The issue is when you have a problem and when you can get there.

THIS is where if you're in business in HVAC, and have half a brain, you won't loose money doing service work because your service department runs you much higher overhead than your install department.

 

[kenmac]

I can only guess Nordyne made a deal with Gree to represent them in the US as anyone can follow the bread crumbs with Nortek Global online...

View attachment 628985

Thing is, Nordyne doesn't have a manufacturing VRF/VRV side in the US. The added caveat is Nordyne, like Goodman years ago, is still up for sale which no one has bought yet (Goodman sold to Daikin, Nordyne hasn't found a buyer yet). If your nephew could correct me, would greatly be appreciated.

This is where York/Hitachi screwed up IMO some years ago. Trane and Mitsubishi however are a legal joint "partner" now and you will find Rheem/Ruud in bed with Fujitsu.

I do know their VRF / VRV is not produced state side. (Chinese made) The way I understand it. they only contract with Gree for production of these units.

I guess I'm not understanding what you are wanting me to ask him.. If Nordyne is for sale ?
Not sure he would know this, as they operate totally independent of each other.
I will ask if that is the question.

They have RE Michel as the distributor for some of their equipment (mini splits I think)
Trying to get them to carry the VRF equipment, but they are saying many contractors claim to not know much about the VRF equipment so not many contractors are interested, when there's not a lot of difference in the two, as Both vary refrigerant flow.

My brother worked for Diakin when they acquired Goodman he said that was a cluster...
He also worked for LG at one time. He has gone from LG, to Diakin, to Johnson controls

My brother states every time they get a complaint of a compressor failure. They require an oil sample from the contractor for testing. Even though these commercial contracting companies know about pulling the required microns, breaking the vacuum with nitrogen, purging with nitrogen during the brazing process, etc,. The employees still will not follow /preform these basic requirements, and it all shows up in the oil testing where there is carbon and moisture in the oil sample along with the acid causing the compressor to fail

 

[kenmac]

There are many companies where they provide the vehicle, parts, etc, for service work, and you are paid nothing but commission.
I'm not in business anymore, and I'm not going out and installing a unit for $1000.00 someone bought off the net.

What happens when these guys installs one of these units and it doesn't work ? Do they say ok, the unit is installed pay me, Not my fault it doesn't work, call the person on the net you bought it from.

 

[Sigarms]

I guess I'm not understanding what you are wanting me to ask him.. If Nordyne is for sale ?

What I was curious about is if Gree is making equipment for Nordyne or if Nordyne is making equipment for Gree.

RE Michel carries Gree as their own private lable Air Temp ductless mini split line, but nothing in VRF as I know for commercial use.

 

[kenmac]

I can answer that one Gree is making equipment for Nordyne.
He has to meet with the Chinese from time to time at the Gree plant in china to have them make a few changes from time to time

And yes, RE is selling them under the old Chrysler Air Temp name.
From what I understand. RE isn't even selling the ducted VRF units (like I have) for residential ..

His mom (my SIL) is opening a distributorship in TX, where she will handle some VRF equipment and supplies /parts

 

[Sigarms]

I can answer that one Gree is making equipment for Nordyne.
He has to meet with the Chinese from time to time at the Gree plant in china to have them make a few changes from time to time

And yes, RE is selling them under the old Chrysler Air Temp name.

Ken

"Air Temp" is the proprietary name brand from which RE Michel sells their own line of equipment (Chrysler has nothing to do with it per name "Air Temp" in the HVAC industry as far as I have known).

No different than "Maytag", "Whirlpool" or "Frigidaire" (sp?) lable line (two of which are made by Nordyne, and Goodman made the other name, but have since sold it off, one time to a Lennox subsidiary I believe). The irony (and cluster) is RE Michel is also selling Fujitsu as a unitary split product line that is actually made by Rheem/Ruud.

Question - If Gree is making equipment for Nordyne, they have to be making it on the ductless mini split line, but I don't see anything listed for Ductless mini splits for Maytag. Exactly what equipment is Gree making for Nordyne and what name are they selling it under???

 

[kenmac]

What I'm saying is. Back in the 60-70 chrysler used this name. When you bought a dodge, chrysler, plymouth and you the vehicle had A/C it had a window decal that said Chrysler Air temp. Just like back in the 60's 70. chrysler had their name on out board boat motors

Chrysler Airtemp Model 4216-51(??), S/N 2J646773 - Inspecting HVAC Systems - InterNACHI(R)️ Forum

But yes that is the name RE is using on the Gree equipment

 

[Sigarms]

What I'm saying is. Back in the 60-70 chrysler used this name. When you bought a dodge, chrysler, plymouth and you the vehicle had A/C it had a window decal that said Chrysler Air temp. Just like back in the 60's 70. chrysler had their name on out board boat motors

Chrysler Airtemp Model 4216-51(??), S/N 2J646773 - Inspecting HVAC Systems - InterNACHI(R)️ Forum

But yes that is the name RE is using on the Gree equipment

RE Michel sells Air Temp mini splits. Private lable, made by Gree for RE Michel (has NOTHING to do with Chrysler the "car" people as most understand it to be). RE Michel also sells Fujitsu mini split product (manufacturered by Fujitsu) along with unitary split products, with the Fujitsu lable made by Rheem.

The HVAC industry and the family "ties" can be very incestuous.

 

[ultrarunner]

My brother spends about 200k annually on AC... sometimes more when a hotel is going up...

When his new wife insisted and a central HVAC he called the owner of the commercial HVAC he uses...

The owner stopped by and specified Tempstar... we bought several which I had the pleasure of installing... ducts, refrigerant, concrete pad, attic pans, electrical etc...

It was dirt cheap in comparison... when I had all the units in the owner sent over one of the guys to pull a vacuum... which we paid regular shop labor rate... it was still cheap.

Rob, the owner said it was one of the best installs he has seen... I opened walls and ran the line set inside and had a full pan with secondary drain to daylight over the my brothers home office window... Rob offered me a job... I thanked him but said crawling around attics in July was not my idea of a career...

All the units I installed that summer are still in service... one fan motor replaced... what is it with motors anyway?

I'm sure the owner was simply taking care of a good customer... but... we did pay his tech full rate for the commissioning... even though he screwed up the fan setting... just a matter if DIP switches...

One of the things I liked is the same unit could be configured several different ways... I thought this is great engineering... also went with over-sized ducts and wide 90 on the return... it was super quiet in maintain temp mode... the envy of his neighbors and some paid over 10k for their installs in 2004 and the sound of forced air was annoying... these were all 1950 slab ranch homes originally with a single wall furnace.

 

[kenmac]

I was told they bought the rights to use the name Air Temp. Just like nordyne bought the rights to use the name Gipson, maytag, Fridigaire,etc.

As back in the day it was Chrysler air temp just like the appliances were Gipson, Frigidaire, etc,. the right to use those names were bought

It's really hard now days to know who owns who, and what company produces what products, or which products

 

[Daryl249]

I was told they bought the rights to use the name Air Temp. Just like nordyne bought the rights to use the name Gipson, maytag,
It's really hard now days to know who owns who, and what company produces what products, or which products

We need one of these for HVAC and pretty much everything else these days:

 

[kenmac]

We need one of these for HVAC and pretty much everything else these days:

View attachment 629052

lol Yes, you do, but it would change on a regular basis

 

[ultrarunner]

We need one of these for HVAC and pretty much everything else these days:

View attachment 629052

Love it... thank you for posting

 

[Daryl249]

lol Yes, you do, but it would change on a regular basis

I'm sure that one is already out of date.

 

[dstig1]

I'm sure that one is already out of date.

Yep. Hitachi does not own Metabo, is my understanding. They sold their tool business to metabo and licensed the hitachi name for a period of time, which is now running out, and why you are seeing Hitachi tools change names. That's what i read a few months back in Fine Homebuilding or the like.