Tired Ford 3000 engine......

[Soundguy]

If you run into any grey areas, At home I have the tele# to a guy in OH that rebuilds SOS trannies, has many salvage and NOS parts, as well as lots of tech info on them.

Soundguy

 

[RobS]

Interesting project and a VERY interesting machine!

This is off topic, and maybe you could start a new thread to respond, but how the heck does a grape picker work!?!

 

[Kaliburz]

Interesting project and a VERY interesting machine!

This is off topic, and maybe you could start a new thread to respond, but how the heck does a grape picker work!?!

Well, if you look at Ebay #7584322387 and 300003697399 (later model Chisholm, all hydraulic) you'll see more pics. The one w/ the Ford on top, has better pics. The harvester drives over the grape row (which if you did not know, grows on a trellis system). When you look at the pictures, you see the tunnel that goes over the row. On the bottom there is those white plastic sheets that overlap each other. They are spring loaded and allow the posts/plants to go by. The rods near the front, looks like fingers, two sets, front and rear do the harvesting. They osilate left and right and this swaying action "taps"/"vibrates" on the grape plant/wire which essentially shakes them off. Mind you, the RPM of the hydraulic motor that runs the "beating heads" is going about 300. The grapes that fall on the sheets get diverted to a belt next to the sheets, which moves the grapes toward the back, to the second set of belts. The third set moves the grapes up the machine to a belt that eventually moves it to the convayor that dumps into a trailer being towed by a tractor one row over.

 

[Kaliburz]

If you run into any grey areas, At home I have the tele# to a guy in OH that rebuilds SOS trannies, has many salvage and NOS parts, as well as lots of tech info on them.

Soundguy

I think I'll take you up on that offer on the guy in OH.

I ended up chatting w/ the S-O-S "experts". They work on them all the time on the harvesters. The young guy seems to laugh when I told him that when I mention "Select-O-Speed", people cringe. Said you just have to know how to use them and mechanics have to know how to rebuild them "right". His father told me that SOS parts are getting hard to find. I might "stock up" on one or two items that he said are difficult to find now- if the price is right and if that guy in OH has them.

I received the answer to my question- Will the 3000 SOS tranny be able to handle the engine from a 4630 Ford?

YES!

So, looks like tomorrow I go down to the NH dealer and buy myself an engine......

 

[Soundguy]

I sent you a PM with the info.

thanks

Soundguy

 

[RobS]

Thanks for the info Kaliburz, that's a pretty good explaination. There are a lot of vinyards around here, along Lake Michigan's coast. I've seen these machines but never quite knew how they worked.

Thanks again and good luck with your project

 

[CMunger]

If you want more HP this suggestion does'nt matter, but the Ford blocks are usually bored and resleeved back to standard, this is common even if the block is not damaged like yours, so yours probably could be repaired. The later 4 cylinders had poures blocks and machine shops wanted to install a thick sleeve to prevent cavataion erosion, resulting in, water in the oil. Don't worry Soundguy you have a later Genisis engine and I think the casting procedures were changed (Good Engines).

 

[Soundguy]

I use the fw-15 anti cavitation addative as my manual states... so cavitation and electrolysis is low on my list of worries.

I'd have sugested he overbore and sleave.. but it's obvious that he really wants a new higher hp engine.. not a rebuilt same hp engine.. so I just let that issue go. Me personally? I'd bore and repair... but then.. I like stock setups.. etc. I'm more of a collector.. etc.

Soundguy

 

[Kaliburz]

The early Chisholm Ryder's w/ the 3000 were underpowered according to the guy that I talked to the other day. If you had any type of incline (hill), it taxed the engine. The 4000's did better, but most who had them were pushing the limit still. Heck, I remember that when it ran into mud in the vineyard, they had to shut off the PTO/hydraulic system to get enough power to drive out.

The repair shop I talked to the other day had a 4000 engine available for rebuild. He estimated $3500 to rebuild that engine, since it was an older one that was RnR-ed. And I'm not sure if that includes installing it up into the machine. A lot of people pulled out the 3000 engine and swapped to the 4000 according to him. I guess I'm just taking it one step further....

While I was at their shop the other day, they had a newer harvester (4000 on top) that they just "fixed". The owner purchased a rebuilt 4000 tractor w/ the SOS tranny and told them to swap out the 4000 that was on the harvester. So they split the tranny and axle and put it up there.....

I've thought about taking the spare rebuilt SOS I have, having that shop look at it and then installing it w/ the new engine. Just in case the "current" SOS might have an issue. It was just a thought....

This machine has been picking our grapes since my father asked the original owner back in the early 1970's. It was sold twice by the original owner (original 2nd owner ran it, but missed payments, so he took it back). The "2nd" 2nd owner ran it for years and I bought it from him. So technically, I'd be the third/forth owner.

I plan to keep the old engine. Sentimental value (core is only $800). I'm friends with the original owner's grandson (never knew him as a kid, only met him at the local community college when we both went there). I'll put it back together after I pull it down for storage. Plan on rebuilding it eventually....maybe to put it into service as a stationary motor (if I can find the PTO setup for them).

(I'll grab my digital and take pics of my machine/engine and post them.)

PS- I'm told the 4630 engines have 'real' glow plugs! I suppose that harvester will be working for another 30+ years after this refit...... Gotta give them credit though....its been running for 38 years, well over 12,000 hours.

"Old work horses never die....they keep getting resurected over and over....."

 

[Kaliburz]

Here are some pics. Not sure if the pics will show the gouges that well. Summer thunder shower a few days ago..... the plastic over blew off and some water got into the bore.....

Edit-
The 4630 engine has the same "pre heater" as this does. I suppose they call any thing a "glow plug" if it heats the engine..... I'm gonna put a coolent heater also.

It's suppose to be here next week..... a long w/ a few other parts. Gives me just enough time to make my forklift hoist and remove the old engine.

 

[Soundguy]

Keep the pics coming.

I love ongoing projects.

Soundguy

 

[Kaliburz]

I did some measuring w/ a caliper. But it seems like the cylinder bore is 4.4 inches and stroke is 4.4 also. The block clearly states that it was 'cast' as a 3000, but the specs match that of a 4000. I wonder if she was rebuilt as a 4000 at some point......

 

[Soundguy]

Hard to say what might have been done over the years. Even on the old 8n, it was not uncommon to use OS pistons. For instance.. sleaves could be dropped and you coul ddrop in mercury pistons and run them bare in the block.. etc.. gain some hp and trash your block all in one shot if you weren't carefull.

Soundguy

 

[Kaliburz]

Well, got engine out (Monday evening) finally. It was interesting, but I got tips from the harvester guy who repairs them. Should have takent he front casting/rad support off first like I thought...not while connected to engine. Still waiting for new reman engine to show.

Any how, w/ the engine out, a new issue has been found. I was told about input shaft spline failure by the shop. And this shows some "conciderable wear". The splines are about 1/2 worn through...both on engine side and tranny. The part on the engine (the clutch) the part is available. I've got it on it's way (was going to replace any how. But the shaft in the tranny is "no longer serviced".

He's rebuilt them.... welded and remachined splines. I think finding a "good used one" will be hard to find, let alone a NOS (he was saying the last one was sold for a small forture).... I think I'll be hitting up the tractor salvage yards and that guy I was told about......

Oh...pics....I'll take some....was getting dark when we set the engine down on the ground.


The saga continues........

 

[Soundguy]

Deffinately contact ralph alexander...

Soundguy

 

[Kaliburz]

The saga continues.....

Pics of the engine removed, the input shaft and the harvester. Spare SOS tranny is being readied.

Been hot lately....can't really work unless really early in the morning or untill late afternoon/early evening...when the thing cools down and touching the steel doesn't hurt to much.

 

[Kaliburz]

Well, got the tranny off today. Only one hitch, but that was a "minor" issue. Bolts/nuts behaived themself. Only hitch was I couldn't get the drain plug off of the rear end case. Ended up pulling a "blank" on the side of the case to get oil out and then splitting the tranny/rear end and just letting the oil weep out slowly. The rear end has NOTHING other then the PTO shaft going through and rear end stuff. No 3pt no nada....so lots of plates just coving the holes in the case.

The real suprise was AFTER it was out. Tranny and PTO output looked fine. But the sludge in the rear end was an eye opener! I don't think the rear end oil was changed in it's life! The tranny wouldn't be hurt from a rebuilt (check out all internals). When I took the steering off of it, it sorta smelled funny......to both my buddy and I. I think it doesn't hurt to change the oil in it yearly...AND to put a tranny oil guage in the drain plug location.

Now it's just cleaning up the other tranny and reading to install.... just debating if I want to install w/ the engine hooked up (engine/tranny unit) or individually....

 

[Soundguy]

Those SOS do like clean oil... I wouldn't bat an eye at changing them yearly.. especially with the repair price tag they carry..

I'd hate to think that ( the lack of ) 30$ of oil caused a problem.. etc.

Soundguy

 

[Kaliburz]

Those SOS do like clean oil... I wouldn't bat an eye at changing them yearly.. especially with the repair price tag they carry..

I'd hate to think that ( the lack of ) 30$ of oil caused a problem.. etc.

Soundguy

The guy I bought it from said they changed the SOS oil before each season started. But of late, maybe last year it might not have..... there was a slow leak on the side near the inching peddle. They tried to use one of the side cover bolts to hold something...got loose. I hope the tranny wasn't low on oil. Oh well..... I'll have someone go through it eventually. Gotta track down an input shaft first...will call the SOS guy you told me about eventually.

I just don't know if the rear end oil was ever changed..... I'm wonder mow much sludge is in the back part of the case, where I can't see. I'll take some pics and post of what I can see.....

 

[Soundguy]

Bet a garden sprayer full of diesel or kero, or mineral spirits thru the pto hole and down the drain will wash alot of crud out..

Soundguy