TLB vs Compact Tractor with attachments

centex · Jan 31, 2002

I am trying to decide between a TLB and a compact tractor with loader and backhoe (Kubota L35 vs L3710). Except that the loader is not removable, no mid mount mower capability, and much heavier chasis on the L35 they seem about the same. Is there something I am missing? I will be doing a lot of backhoe and loader work to build roads, dig for septic system and pond, level and landscape in a central Texas area with plenty of good sized rocks and trees. I also need to use a jack hammer attachment for the backhoe to remove a stretch of old abandoned highway that runs thorugh my property so the L35 seems like the ideal tractor for this work. On the other hand I need to do a lot of clearing of small to large trees as well as mowing, tilling and post hole digging. I think the L35 should work for this with the FEL bucket and backhoe removed. I don't need a mid-mount mower so that is not an issue and it seems to me that the resale for a TLB would be better than a compact tractor since it is a heavier duty machine. Any advice would be welcomed.

My local dealer tried to sell me a B21 but I don't think the PTO output is enough to be really useful and the backhoe could not handle some of the large rocks or the old pavement. He told me that the B21 and L35 backhoes were far superior to the attachments for the compact tractors because they used the tractors hydralics vs a pto driven pump for the others. Some the posts on the this board recommend aftermarket backhoes with subframe attachments but wouldn't welding on someone else's subframes affect the warranty on a new tractor?

hayden · Jan 31, 2002

If 80%-90% of your use is loader and Backhoe, I'd go with the L35. That's exactly what it optimized for. The 20% of the time you need to use the 3PH, it's there. I've had a removable loader for the past 5 years and I've never taken it off.

The transmission may be a factor too. I think I heard that the L35 is GST only - no HST. For me that would be a major drawback - in fact enough to disqualify it.

Peter

MChalkley · Jan 31, 2002

Centex - The Bradco subframe-mounted backhoes don't require any welding (with the Kubota L-series, at any rate). You just bolt the rear of the subframe to the axle housing and the front of it to the loader subframe. They're an excellent choice if you plan on using the three-point hitch a lot.

I had a Bradco 609 on an L3600GST and an L4310HST - both worked fine using the tractor's hydraulics. There's a long discussion of different ways to do the plumbing in my "L4310 enhancements" thread in "Customization". I've done it three different ways and the way I did it the last time was far superior to the other two - quite a bit more flow and a lot easier to work with when installing it and removing it.

MarkV · Feb 1, 2002

Centex,

First welcome to the forum. Sounds like you have some big projects planned in the future. I have a B21 and think you made the right decision by looking for something bigger with your plans. I even wonder if the L35 is big enough as you look at digging ponds and removing abandon paved roads. Those may be projects left to larger equipment although given enough time you could probably get the job done. Have you considered the new L48 TLB? Besides the extra engine power, stronger hydraulics, greater loader and backhoe power, the HST transmission is what would draw me that way. HST makes maneuvering the tractor for loader and backhoe work so much easier it is the only way I could go.

If you haven’t yet, look at the Home Page here on the forum to see the new JD 110 TLB. Although all of the specs and pricing are not out yet, it sounds to be somewhere between the L35 and L48 Kubota TLB’s and their first with a 3pt and PTO on a TLB. There is also some good information on the L48 on the home page.

Good luck in you hunt and keep us up to date.

MarkV

MChalkley · Feb 1, 2002

And if he's going to look at L48's, he'd might as well go the rest of the way and look at the EarthForce machines, eh MarkV? Sorry, I couldn't resist... /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

jinman · Feb 2, 2002

Don, was the tractor dealer you talked to around Lampassas or near Austin? I'd suggest talking to a dealer closest to where I was going to need the tractor. I'd also look for equipment rental places, because digging ponds and breaking up old asphalt is something I'd want to use a dozer or track loader for. I'd also consider renting a full-size backhoe for your septic tank digging, or consider that most approved septic systems in Texas have to be done by a certified contractor and they all have their own equipment.

My bottom line suggestion is to buy a tractor based on your day-to-day use and what your pocket book can afford. You might even consider moving up to the 40 hp range because the extra weight and power will come in handy for clearing trees and brush. I consider my TC45 just right for my use on 33 acres with 65% postoak and blackjack woods. If you have to stay with the L3710, I'd say buy it and look at renting the heavier equipment when you need it. ...my $0.02 worth. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

centex · Feb 2, 2002

The dealer was Lansford Equipment in Austin. There are about the closest Kubota dealer to Lampassas and definitely the largest. There are closer JD and NH dealers. After reading the posts to this question and the other threads on this site I just more confused than ever. I am convinced that JD price is higher and quality lower than either Kubota and NH. The NH specs for their Boomer tractors "seem" to be better than Kubota but there seems to be a lot of warranty problems with them based on what I see elsewhere in this site. there is a long thead on problems with the Kubota L48 TLB. I am long on time and short on money so I have to get it right the first time. It is obvious that I need to keep reading this forum for some time to learm much more before I jump in and make a big mistake.

John_Mc · Feb 2, 2002

<font color=blue>The NH specs for their Boomer tractors "seem" to be better than Kubota but there seems to be a lot of warranty problems with them based on what I see elsewhere in this site.</font color=blue>

What kinds of warranty problems are you seeing on the NH stuff? Most of what I've heard of or experienced are minor things which are easily fixed (similar to what you hear of on all brands). I've also not heard of any pattern of troubles getting things fixed under warranty.

John_Mc

DVerbarg · Feb 2, 2002

When I bought my TC40D there was not much feedback regarding issues/problems. The only issue I have had is the cool running. Sounds like the dealers are more then willing to make the fix and a recent post indicated that NH has issued a new part to take care of the issue. I did not talk to my dealer but just used the directions that I found here on TBN ordered the $15 in parts and spent the 20 minutes it took to make the change.

If you were to read MarkC's thread about enhancements to his Kubota you might get the impression that Kubota's are slightly under engineered, but no he just expects more then the typical owner.

Most of the TBN members seem to be perfectionistic to various degrees, and expect that our tractors will be perfect. And of course they should be /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

centex · Feb 2, 2002

The "New Holland Owning/Operating" forum seems to have a lot of threads on problems like leaks, fogging intrument panels, etc. I know these are mostly minor problems but for $20K-$30K should one not expect better? If the little things are missed or poorly designed then I would suspect some major things might also be lurking in the background just waiting for the warranty to run out. I did not find as many complaints under the "Kubota Owning/Operating" forum but then there is a lot more there to look through.

On another note, it looks to me like the TC35, TC40, & TC45 are the only tractors in this class that have enough implement hydraulic flow to meet the requirements for the Bradco backhoes (Bradco recommended the 509 for the TC35 and it requires 9-12 cfm.) The closest Kubota in size to the TC35 appears to be the L3710 and it has less than 9cfm available for implements. Did I interpret the specs correctly? The NH salesman told me the specs were not apples to apples between the brands.

paccorti · Feb 2, 2002

The class III Boomers (TC35,40 & 45) have implement pumps rated for 9.8 cfm. The L3010/L3410 have implement pumps rated at 7.0 cfm, the L3710/L4310 7.8 cfm.

I have 268 hrs on my TC35D. I've had it in the shop exactly once for a warrenty repair (range gear may slip), something that I have never experienced. Before and after the tractor has run fine. I don't abuse my tractor but I work it VERY hard. Today I was digging my pond out driving in 4wd in 7" of water in clay/mud. A full bucket of wet clay is extremely heavy, yet my loader will lift it to full height no problem (not something I occasionally do as the tractor rocks on its wheels quite a bit). This machine has been everything I've expected and more. I have personally experienced the leaky coolant fitting on the side of my tractor. My Boomer also ran cool until a $2 valve was installed in the coolant return line. I personally consider these problems minor. They were both easy and cheap to fix. Fogging dash.. yes that happens sometimes, but I've heard other makes complain about that too.

On the other hand I removed my 16LA loader last weekend for the first time. Even jumping off the tractor (to read the instructions) it took me less than 5 minues to remove/install. Couldn't be easier... well designed.

I hope I'm not coming across too defensive. My Boomer has exceed my expectations. I'm sure the Kubota is a fine machine too. I wouldn't let a slightly foggy dash (which is rare) or a slightly lower implement pump rate sway my decision too much.

Truth be known you'll get a good machine either way,

Peter

JohnInCA · Feb 3, 2002

centex,
Just for your information, Bradco may recommend a 509 for the TC35/40/45, but NH does not. In fact, it will void your warranty. Not a good thing when you've just sprung 20 some K for a tractor. I believe Kubota has the same policy. If you don't want to trash your warranty, look into a NH 758C hoe. Not as strong as the 509, but if something breaks you're covered.

John_Mc · Feb 3, 2002

<font color=blue>The "New Holland Owning/Operating" forum seems to have a lot of threads on problems like leaks, fogging intrument panels, etc. ... If the little things are missed or poorly designed then I would suspect some major things might also be lurking in the background just waiting for the warranty to run out.</font color=blue>

There is a relatively new thread in the "NH Buying" forum that is tryin gto pull as many of these issues into one place. I hesitated starting it for fear of giving just the impression you seem to have gotten. These are well-designed, reliable tractors (all of the "big three" manufacturers are, as are many of the other names out there). These types of problems exist with all of the makes of tractors I've ever dealt with or heard of. If you look through the forums, and talk to owners, you'll find they all suffer with some minor issues (same thing with new cars). Many of the problems are the exact same ones that you'll find with other brands. For each one that isn't across all brands, you'll probably find other problems unique to each brand. Try them all, buy what best fits your needs and what "feels right" to you. These firms didn't get their good reputations for nothing.

John_Mc

centex · Feb 6, 2002

John,
Thanks for the tip. I suppose it does not matter if the Bradco backhoe was bought from and installed by the tractor dealer.

centex · Feb 13, 2002

Well I am buying a JD 4700 with JD 460 loader and JD 48 backhoe. It is a little more tractor than I intended to get but I like the dealer and he gave me a closeout deal I could not refuse on a tractor that he had in stock. I want to thank everyone for the advice and counsel that you gave me.

cowboydoc · Feb 13, 2002

Boy you can't go wrong with that outfit. You should be able to do most things you want with it. That backhoe and loader are so easy to take on and off. If you only have one unit you'll like that better than a dedicated TLB unit.

MarkV · Feb 13, 2002

Centex,

CONGRADULATIONS!!!!! I have never used the 4700 but everything I hear says it is a great tractor with plenty of power for the jobs you described. Which transmission did you get with your new monster?

MarkV

centex · Feb 13, 2002

The tractor has a hydrostatic transmission, 4WD, and industrial tires. I was going to order a 4410 with the same features but the price of this tractor was so close that I went with it instead. I would never have bought a hydrostatic transmission except for the overwhelming support for them on this site. I never much liked automatic transmissions. It is still hard for me to see much advantage over the maunal transmissions with the automatic shift mechanisms. I like the ruggedness of a manual transmssion but all the extra hydraulics and electronics to make the manual transmissions shift automatically probably make them less reliable than a hydrostatic transmission.

I liked the Kubotas but the dealers are few an far between around here and both John Deere and New Holland have more dealers a lot closer to me. I decided on John Deere becasue as I drive around the country side here I see a lot more green than blue tractors so I went with green.