To Geothermal From Propane

[fishpick]

I thought ...from others info that geo needed supplemental heat at approx the same level as a air to air ...more or less . mine switches to back up propane at 29 degrees or > 2 degrees diff in set point and temp.....hummm gotta keep that inspection in mind

Negative. That's why geo is a "better" heat pump than air to air.
With air to air - when the temp gets down around 20F, it's VERY VERY difficult for any unit to extract heat... there's something about a 40-50 degree temp differential is "doable" but other than that - the unit can't make heat. So if it's 20 outside and you have the house set to 70... you are off the high side by a fair amount and the unit can't satisfy - so it needs AUX heat because it can't produce enough BTU's.
So, I guess in a way that's true with geo - but the earth where the loop fileds reside (here) is a cool 42-45 degrees no matter what in the winter. So the laws of compressor physics still come into play (that whole 40 degree window) but the outside temp doesn't get to mess with things...
Where AUX heat comes in with geo is NOT when the heat pump can't make heat - it comes in when the heat made by the heat pump is leaving the structure faster than the unit can replenish it. (We have learned nuance is EVERYTHING with geo)

 

[71bronco]

According to our accountant - it's all good in one year as long as you are paying the taxes to get the cash back on the credit itself. i.e. - we pay more than $8K in Fed taxes so we can apply the full $8K credit.
(that may be a change as part of the "green jobs" legislation)

That's good for you. We had two 3 kids in college at the same time so we had some good credits the last couple years. By the way I love my geothermal.:thumbsup::thumbsup:

Jeff

 

[sawduster98]

Congrats on your system and welcome to the club! And BTW...which part of NY does NOT have high taxes???
We've had our system for 2yrs now and love it. 2 ton ClimateMaster. We were able to get our 30% back the first year.

 

[NorTracNY]

I looked into it, but I'm on natural gas. The payback is about 26years for me. If I was on propane it would have been closer to 14years.

 

[techman]

As fishpic pointed out, since the "source" never gets too cold, backup is generally not needed if the system is sized properly.

I have been on geo for 5 1/2 years and have not had 1 minute of backup heat. I actually installed a new thermostat this fall and tested the backup to check the wiring. It stunk up the house due to all of the dust that had accumulated on the electric coils over the years. I have the coils installed only for a system failure. I have also installed two other systems, both have never used backup.

The only downside is that the ground does slowly chill over the winter due to the heat flow capability of soil. So by the end of the heating season the water loop temps are down to about 28 deg on average, reducing efficiency somewhat at the end of the season. Despite adding a 4th person in my house (mother-in-law) and adding a computer or two, my annual electric consumption is 30% lower compared to my pre-geo days, with a conventional air-air hear pump system.

This year I added 9.2 KW of solar, so my current electric billing is dropping by about 50% to about $ 100/mo average, for an all electric 2800 sq-ft home.

paul

 

[wngsprd]

Let me add another positve vote for Geo. We installed in 1998 when we added on to our house. We doubled the sq ft but our heat bill didn't change. Unfortunately, the unit died in May this year and we replaced it with a better manufacturer. But the silver lining is that I now have an apples to apples comparison with the same sq ft and the new unit is so much more efficient our heat and A/C costs have dropped another 30%...and the tax credit is a nice deal sweetener.

 

[Island Farmer]

Let me add another positve vote for Geo. We installed in 1998 when we added on to our house. We doubled the sq ft but our heat bill didn't change. Unfortunately, the unit died in May this year and we replaced it with a better manufacturer. But the silver lining is that I now have an apples to apples comparison with the same sq ft and the new unit is so much more efficient our heat and A/C costs have dropped another 30%...and the tax credit is a nice deal sweetener.

Hello wngsprd,

What company manufactured your new unit? I have been thinking about changing over to geothermal for a long time. When I do it, I'd really like to get it right the first time.

Island Farmer

 

[jobguy]

I've had a geothermal ground water (85' well that supplies the house/furnace and discharges to a pond out back) since late 70's early eighties. I started with electric baseboard (killer electric bills over $300 even back then) and it only heated half the house (no heat to the basement)I paid $2400 for the original unit and $4000 for the upgrade unit. A local contractor built the original heat-pump in his garage. My total electric house electric bill averages $213 and we always get something back from the electric company every year. The well pumps have lasted about 12 years each. I upgraded the furnace once. The fan runs 24/7, keeps the house at an even heat and prevents moisture related mildew and cleans the air. My windows are original and not very efficient. We are going to sell and move to a warmer climate in the late summer or early fall so will never have to replace the unit again (I hope).
I love the unit. Fresh water to the pond brings in all kinds of wild-life.
So basically I have been happy with the unit.
I never ran cost or payback comparisons as I simply wanted what I think is the best heat source there is, in my home. Note: I live in MN even with 60-75 below wind-chill we have been toasty warm.

 

[heehaw]

my wifes uncle had a geothermal heatpump for years, as jobguy does: dumped the well water in a pond or on his garden: a couple years ago it quit working so he replaced it with a high eff heat pump: and his utilities went down: for a "poor mans geothermal" air conditioning system, put a water line to your compressor/condensor, and an electric valve with a misting tip, when the ac comes on, it will mist the outside unit: we had to do this at my sisters house last summer, because the outside temp was so high, the unit would not work: this solved the problem instantly:
heehaw

 

[Richard]

The heat is super even, the electric bills are FRACTIONAL over the old propane bills, it's just great.

Let's put it into some simple perspective.

My house is approximately 3,000 sq/ft and I heat with electricity. During winter, I have three installed propane ventless fireplaces however, we only use one of them.

My neighbor has a house about 12,000 sq/ft (yes 4x larger) than mine.

I was preparing for a HVAC service and possible expensive bill so I went to the neighbor to talk to him about his Geothermal installation.

He too, LOVES it.

My electricty bill during a winter month was between $300/400 for the month.

My dirty low down son of a gun neighbor actually pulled his electricity bill out and showed it to me. It was about $120.

His house is FAR more comfortable than mine, they run FAR more lights than I do and I'm paying three times his price during heating season.

I've never had the nerve to check during cooling months, I'm already mad at him