Too much Tractor?

boda1968 · May 13, 2004

First I would like to say thans to the creators of this fourm and to all the members who unselfishly donate their time and experience to "rookies" like me. This site is a wealth of information and I have really enjoyed reading the past post.
Here is my scenario....I own six acres in Lafayette, Louisiana. I presently keep an acre of it mowed around the house with a 42" cut riding lawnmower. I have contracted with a site clearing company (D6 bulldozer and a large excavator) to clear approx. 4 acres of the remaining 5. This company will remove a majority of the trees via the bull dozer. The cleared trees will be buried and some will be piled up to be burned at a later date. They will also construct about a 1/2 acre pond. Once these guys are finished there will be plenty of work to get this land in shape to be mowed with a grooming mower. But once this is done the tractor is done will be used mostly (95% of the time) as a mower around the house and in the back 4 acres. I initially looked at the sub compacts (new holland, kubota, JD) but I have been led to believe that if your going to spend 12K to 13K on a sub compact with a FEL and grooming deck I would be better off moving up to the New Holland Tc 24 series or the Kubota BT 2410 for approx. 3K more with the above mentioned acessories. After saying all that I would like to get someone's opinion on the idea of using any one of these tractors a majority of time as lawnmowers on approx 5 acres. I know the Kubota 2710 is a bit bigger tractor but is it a another option?
First time I have posted anywhere at anytime so I hope It makes sense!

TIA
Roy

Poppa · May 13, 2004

Boda1968

If you truly believe that youare going to use that tractor for 95 percent mowing then I would sure be inclined to look at a dedicated mower. I don't have any expertise or experience with them but there is a thread on this site about a Ventrac mower. Read it and think about your needs. Good luck, sound like you are going to have a beautiful place when you are done

Here, I found it VENTRAC

Mike

Bob_Skurka · May 13, 2004

Roy . . . I believe many people buy tractors that are too big for maintaining their small "estates." As an owner of a TC24D I can tell you that I love my tractor, and I use it for mowing about 80% of the time. It is not my primary mower, but I use it for some of the open field areas that we have.

So let me tell you the downsides of mowing with that size tractor . . . and those downsides get worst as tractor size goes up on small properties. First is that your tractor won't fit under the branches of many small trees, so if you have, or plan to plan small trees, then you will be using the lawn tractor to get up close and personal to those. Second, you will find that if you have lots of landscaping to mow around then that size tractor is not very fast at mowing because you are following lots of curves. Mowing speed has a lot more to due with manuverability than it does with actual ground speed traveled IF you have a lot of landscaping.

However, there are some good points, a TC24 size tractor can easily handle a 60" mower deck and the better quality decks provide a very nice finish cut. The TC24 size units sit a bit higher and give better ground clearance for the small % of the time that you might use it for "tractoring" duties beyond mowing. I find the TC24 size tractors very comfortable to operate and a bit easier to ride than the small units -but that is obviously a personal observation. For FEL work, I like the ground clearance of the this class of tractor over the Sub-CUTs and consider it a big advantage.

The Sub-CUTs are also nice units, they might fit better under the small trees (BUT they still have a ROPS system that MAY hit the branches too), they will likely use the same size mower decks as a slightly larger tractor, and some of them offer slightly more manuverability but not by too much. The FELs on the Sub-CUTs are pretty strong, but the ground clearance of the units is often what limits their use.

Personally I would NOT go up in frame size over the TC24 size tractor for a tractor that will primarily mow. You might want to consider a dedicated mower. IF your land is flat enough, you cannot beat a ZTR.

Poppa · May 13, 2004

So Bob,

Since you have both. If you were in his position, looking to mow 4 plus acres for 95 percent of the tractor use, would you still go with the TC24 or equivalent or would you take your Ventrac or equivalent?

Curious

Mike

boda1968 · May 13, 2004

Poppa,

Thanks for your response, it is appreciated.

Roy

Bob_Skurka · May 13, 2004

Poppa, assuming I was not doing too much "tractoring" and assuming my wife really put the screws to me and limited the number of toys I could have, then I would pick the Ventrac (or equivalent) as the hands down winner without any hesitation.

I have lots of implements for the NH and only 2 things for the Ventrac: I have a 52" mower and a 48" slip scoop. The 52" mower is vastly superior for mowing the "lawn" areas, and it is as good or better at mowing the fairly rough reclaimed pasture areas. Further, it mows much faster. Not as fast as a ZTR, but then my ground is not smooth enough and has slopes way to steep to even consider a ZTR. The little 48" slip scoop has been used a few times and it amazed me in how powerful its digging force is. Just last night the lovely Misses asked for some dirt to finish doing some transplating of her flowers so I pulled the Ventrac out, slipped the mower deck off (a 30 second job) installed the slip scoop (took about 5 minutes including moving aside some bikes and other toys that were in the way) drove down the hill to a dirt pile with 3 years of weed growth and dug out a buckful of black dirt, ran it up to the house, all in about 3 minutes! Swapped the implements, another 3 minutes, and plopped my rear end down in the big easy chair just as a rain storm began to pelt the house. The little scoop is great for moving mulch around, and I've used it for hauling concrete landscape stones. I've got about 14 hours on the Ventrac and it impresses me more every time I try something new. It is not the best "tractor" on the market, but for what it is, it is pretty darn amazing, very high quality, and ugly enough to have a special charm that makes momma love it.

BigMike · May 13, 2004

I can't really help you in your choice of tractors, but what I would like to know is what kind of trees are you taking out? Seems like a waste to bury and burn them. They might have some value in the hardwood market...but I don't really know much about the business of trees in that part of the country...don't have many where I come from. Might not be financially viable to harvest those trees.

KubotaSteve · May 13, 2004

If 95% of it's use is mowing, I would be looking for a more dedicated mower type of machine. I have a B-7800 which is about the same size as the 2710 and it mows very nice but will cost you some time mowing around things such as landscaping and structures such as your house and sheds. I chose the 7800 because I am using it alot for moving dirt, stone, and snow. If I was mainly mowing, I would have went with something on the smaller side if not a dedicated mowing machine (next on the wish list)

boda1968 · May 13, 2004

Bob,

I just spent twenty minutes responding to you but lost it trying to so a spell check. Don't know what happen!!!!!!

Short version:
Buy tractor and keep lawnmower for around landscaping, no trees to worry about. Could use tractor a lot initially trying to get the acreage level and smooth after the bulldozer and excavator leaves.
or
I could buy the ZTR for around $8K and then hire someone to do the finishing work on the cleared acreage.

But I do like the idea of having a tractor in my shop for odd and end jobs.

Bob thanks for your time.

Roy

RobS · May 13, 2004

I'll relate my situation...

We have ten acres, mostly open fields. Built a house so we're now in the process of landscaping. Don't plan on ever having much finished lawn, mostly just around the house. Other areas will be prairie or just trimmed "pasture" look.

I'm the type of person who will use a tool once I've aquired it. For example, having a backhoe, everything now looks like a backhoe project to me. Not everyone shares this outlook.

So what I have is my trusty little 790 which will probably never carry a finish mower. I use it for brush hogging the pasture like areas, landscape projects, snow removal and such. For our current finish lawn needs we use the old Craftsman lawn tractor. If I ever need to upgrade the lawn mowing equipment I'd look at a dedicated lawn mowing machine (right now would be a Dixie Chopper).

If your needs are truly 95% lawn mowing, I'd stick with a lawn mowing machine. If you are like me and will more utilize the non-lawn mowing capabilities of a tractor once you own it I'd go that route /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

boda1968 · May 13, 2004

Mike,

I checked into having a logger come in and pay me for the pine trees. They offered me $500 which is a positive cash flow no matter which way you look at it ,but after witnessing(sp?) their work ethics and quality, I didn't need the extra headaches.

Roy

boda1968 · May 13, 2004

Rob,

Thanks for the response.
That exactly how I feel about the tractor, I may think that I will only mow with it, but there may be plenty of other things I could get done that I am just not thinking about at this time.

Roy

Henro · May 13, 2004

You will have a lot of work on the 4 acres after the contractor leaves. A larger small tractor like the B7800 or B2910 would be a good fit initially. When I bought my B2910 I thought it was huge, but now it seems like the perfect small real tractor to me. As would any similar sized traxtor of any color, had I bought something else.

My B2910 did a pretty good job cutting my short weeds that have learned over the years to look like grass. But it was cumbersome and I ended up trading it in as part of a deal on a BX 2200 last summer. I needed a MMM for the kind of cutting I do...

My question would be are you adverse to having two tractors? Meaning a larger tractor like a B7800 size and some kind of grass cutter to accompany it in the future?

In our case we have 3.7 acres which I am improving. I use my B2910 for everything EXCEPT grass cutting. I fully expect that over the next couple years I will be using the larger tractor less and the smaller one more. But I intend to keep both, and to have the larger one there to do the grunt work when I need it.

If I were in your shoes, I would buy a tractor that would make my life easier during the initial phase of clean up and ground preperation. Might even buy a RFM in the future and see how things went...

And since I'm me, I know I would keep that tractor and add another something to the stable when I reached the point of wanting to. That might be a ZTR or a machine like Bob has, or who knows what.

My neighbor has a 38 pto HP tractor on 4 acres, so keep in mind that tWestern PA may raise some strange dudes...who believe bigger is better and all that... /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif But this one also believes smaller is better...actually I guess I really believe "More than one is best..." /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Poppa · May 13, 2004

Mike,

One thing that this forum has shown me is that anyone east of Dallas thinks all trees are weeds that need to be removed for more lawn, a pond or just on general principle. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Us poor fools on this side of the plains realize that trees are gold and would never even think of removing one, instead being willing to spend extra thousands of dollars to move the house. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif In my area, a fifteen foot pine with a trunk of 7 inches in diameter is considered "Old Growth" and fetches about five hundred dollars. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

I try not to let it get to me when someone gets a new tractor and the first thing they do is go out and push down a half dozen trees. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif Best thing I have found to do is look outside at a sunny day when they are complaining about rain /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Mike

Poppa · May 13, 2004

Roy, lots of good advice here, time to break out the pen and pencil to weigh the pros and cons.

How many dollars to spend?
How much each option costs.
IS a mowing machine like the Ventrac a better fit or would a tractor make better sense?

Biggest factor only you can answer: Do you WANT!! a tractor.

If the answer to the last question is yes then go for it. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Mike

DAP · May 13, 2004

I agree with Bob on this one. If you really like tractors and can afford to have more than 1, then my point is moot.

If you have 4 acres of finish mowing lying in wait ahead and this task represents 95% of your needs (you may have other needs you don't know about yet however) then a tractor with or without a loader and a 3ph would not be prudent. It might be fun, it might be desireable, but a zero turn machine or some other dedicated mowing device will save you money, time and ultimately do a better job.

I know of someone who uses a B2910 (R4s) to mow 3/4 acre of flat finish lawn. First they mow, then they get out a honda push machine to finish where the B2910 cant go. I mow 5+ acres of less flat finish lawns with an LX JohnDeere class machine. As objectively as I can put it, my floating 4' deck does a noticbly nicer cut than that 72" suspended MMM. I might take a little longer owed to the deck size difference, but I only need ONE machine for mowing and my deck does not scallop the turf and my wheels don't injure the surface. Its either operator error, wrong machine/cut for the task or both.

If I was flatter, I would definetly go to a zero turn machine.

boda1968 · May 13, 2004

Poppa,

LOL.
You can have the hundred or more that I am about to bury or burn for free!

"Come and get em"

Roy

JayC · May 13, 2004

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( My neighbor has a 38 pto HP tractor on 4 acres, so keep in mind that tWestern PA may raise some strange dudes...who believe bigger is better and all that... But this one also believes smaller is better... )</font>

Maybe you need to talk to my neighbor a couple houses down. I think he thinks bigger is better. Well, I do too, but I would know my own limits. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif He has a Class III New Holland Boomer. His total lot size is about less than an acre! It is a very nice tractor but it sits in the garage probably 10 out of the 12 months a year. He seems to use it mostly for plowing his driveway out in winter. His driveway is also small enough where you could get by with a walk-behind, self-propelled snowblower! It seems like such wasted potential just sitting there in the garage... /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Bob_Skurka · May 13, 2004

Generally I think HENRO and I have the same concept about tractoring, we just use (some) different tractors to achieve the results we desire.

It sure is nice to be able to turn the key on the right tool for the job and get it done the way it should be, and get it done quickly too. One of the things I love about the Ventrac is the effective mowing speed, and if my garage was bigger, I would have gone with a bigger deck. But that said, the original post really didn't ask about a mowing machine eventhough it was stated that mowing would be 95% of the task. Which is why I wrote about tractors until the dedicated mowers were brought up.

I would say that a B2910 or TC29 would be a great size tractor for doing some tractoring and an asset when/if you plan on building your landscape. The B2910 is about 15" or so longer than the TC24 and maybe 10" wider (depending on bucket size) but is still fairly small. I just can't imagine using it for mowing, and there has never been a deck hooked up the mine.

One of the problems we have when we answer posts is that we often don't know the frame of mind of the original poster. My brother (a NON-tractor person) would never dream of building his landscape, even if he had more than his 1/4 lot. He has crews come in and put in beds for him. Me, I love to get out and dig in. So without knowing if "boda1968" plans to be a "builder" or a "maintainer" it is hard to even make a reasonable recommendation. And even then, being a "builder" is pretty relative. I'm considering adding installing a 65' by 4' stone retaining wall and doing it myself, my neighbor might consider digging out a 6' by 4' patch and call that a garden . . . so we each have to consider those things.

The little Ventrac 3000 is a great mower that can do a bit more than mow, but it is not a tractor for a builder. Now a Ventrac 4200 or a Steiner 430Max might be a nice little tractor for a builder. Both are designed to mow golf courses and the quality of cut from their mower decks is supurb! And both can operate real front end loaders, where my little funny looking Ventrac cannot. And given that mowing will be 95% of the use of the machine, perhaps a tractor like either of those units is really what is in order?

All your choices are compramises. Picking a good mowing machine that is suitable for YOUR property will shave a lot of mowing time off your life, but you will have to decide what type of machine suits your needs best.

ns_in_tex · May 13, 2004

I know this disagrees with a lot of folks on tbn, but we all have our own opinions.

I understand, the smaller the mower, the nicer the cut. This makes the 18" walk behind mower, the best cut. I also know a man that hires his lawn mowed this way. Sorry, I don't fit this catagory.

I mow about 1-1/2 acre for myself and about 1/2 acre for a neighbor. When we have enough rain, this means once a week. I have finally graduated to the best I have ever owned. Kubota L4610 (cab & air) with a 7' rear finish mower. If I were mowing 4 acres, I would be wanting a bat wing finish mower.

The cab is barely over 7' tall & gets around my 7 pecan trees well. I never enjoyed mowing the lawn, more than now, but I still want to do the job with as little work & time as possible.

Just one more opinion. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif