Towing in a somewhat snowy area -- 4x4 vs 4x2

[mundamanu]

My wife and I are looking to get a truck to tow a simple two-horse bumper-pull trailer. We are leaning toward a new or recent model F-150.*

We will be living about 40 miles west of Albany, NY and should average about 50" of snow per winter, which for me, having grown up in Syracuse, NY is not a lot of snow, but I have never towed a loaded horse trailer in the snow. Regardless, we expect to do very little towing in the winter. In fact, we are likely to do no elective towing at all in the winter.

Money is very tight right now and will continue to be so for the next five years, so we need to save money where we can.

So, my question is, can we get away with a two-wheel drive truck, or do we need (must we) to get a 4x4? I would, and I am sure most of you would, prefer a 4x4, but I need to know if we need a 4x4. Three thousand dollars is a lot of money to spend on something that we don't need.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.


*I have plugged all of the numbers, and in the appropriate configuration (Reg. cab, long bed, 5.4L V8, 3.73 limited slip, standard payload pkg) the F-150 is plenty big enough to fit our needs, with at least 10% to spare in payload, GVWR, and GCWR.

 

[Birdhunter1]

You could get by with the 3.55 rear end and a 4.6 in a new truck and be alright. My new F-150 is rated for a 6200 lb trailer with a 4.6 and a 3.55 rear end. My neighbor pulls her horsers with a comparable truck to mine except hers is a supercab model. As far as 4x2 vs. 4x4 I would go with the 4x4 but the 4x2 would work. Regardless the truck will have weight on the rear tires with a loaded horse trailer which will help in traction a little. The thing is though where are you going to take your horses and where will you be turning around and suchwhenyou get there and at your barn for that. I think that is where you would want the 4x4 instead. If you could find an older F-150 I would get the 351 (5.8L V8) as the 302 (5.0) does not pull very well inmy opinion. If you found an older 3/4 ton then any engine would work fine (pre 98: 5.8-351 V8, 7.5L-460 V8. or a 7.3L V8 diesel-turbo/non turbo maybe a 6.9L V8 diesel in the early 80's models).

 

[BB_TX]

If you do go with 4x2, go with the limited slip rear axle. That will help quite a bit. I had a '97 F150 with it. We don't get much snow here, but I had it in the mud where I hunt numerous times. Had to work with it sometimes, but never got stuck.

 

[kokopelli2]

alright here is my opinion. get yourself, or your wife, or kid a job at home depot for 12 hours a week and take advantage of their discount car programs. then you getn get a 3/4 ton chevy with 4wd for less then an f-150. not trying to start a flame war, but in my area chevys are just cheaper. i saved 8k over a camparable f-250 when i bought my 2500hd with the d-max and allison, and i paid under 30K well under.....i knew home depot was worth something! oh then once you sign your contract and all that fun stuff....quit depot.

hope this helps. if you have an specific questions pm me.

 

[cowboydoc]

Heck you don't have to go to Home Depot. Anyday of the week my dealer will sell for $500 under invoice. Tough to beat that with any program.

As far as 4wd there's no way in snow I would pull a trailer with horses without 4wd. Yes you can get by with 2wd but the safety factor is a 100 fold in my opinion. It is much easier to jackknife with 2wd and pulling a trailer you really the 4wd for steering in the snow and ice. I've pulled with and without 4wd and the extra $3k wouldn't come close to replacing one of our horses much less one of the family. If you lived in AZ or down south I'd say save the money. Where you are in a definite snow/ice zone get the 4wd. You'll forget about that extra $3k long before you get over the feeling of sliding around in 2wd or worse yet getting in an accident.

 

[KubotaSteve]

I would go with 4X4 because even though the 4X2 may be fine, there will be one time when you will need it and when its freezing cold outside your wife isn't going to want to hear about the money you saved setting stuck in the snow or mud. It is also a good investment as it is a lot easier to sell a truck with 4X4 than without. I just sold my wife's S-10 and everybody that called about it wanted to know if it had 4 wheel drive and it didn't so I took a loss on it. It isn't always snow that could require 4X4, my dad was backing his car trailer in the yard to unload the tractor and a little hill matched with wet grass kept taking the weight off the rear end and required to put it in 4X4.

 

[dmccarty]

KubotaSteve,

You hit the answer on two counts from my perspective. I get 4x4 because I might not need it often but when I do need it I need it BAD!

Its tick and worse, chigger, season in NC. Last weekend I wanted to look at one part of the property. Even with treated pants I did not want to walk back to what I wanted to check. So I put the truck in 4x4, more to lube the front diff than out of need, and drove off through the woods on a tractor trail.

The truck is a F350 Crew Cab with an 8' bed. It is big. The trail is small. My turnaround faces down hill and I have to back up hill. Never been a problem. But the grass is long and I'm sure the Tiltmeter would say 10+ degrees. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Well, the wheels started spinning. Could not move back at all. So I had to get out of the truck, lock the hubs, and then I could back up. I THINK if I had driven forward a bit I could have back up. But maybe not. Then it would have been the tractor time...

Took seconds to lock the hubs and drive out. I'm sure it would have taken 20-30 minutes if I could not have found another way to drive out and had to hook up the tractor to the truck.

BTW. Even locking the hubs I managed to stay tick and chigger free! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif That is worth 4x4 dollars!!!!!! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Later,
Dan

 

[reb]

I think Dan has a good point. The 4WD will be handy if you get in a tough spot. You don't want to engage the front end for towing on the road, though. From personal experience, I can tell you that unless the truck has a differential in the transfer case, it can get you in trouble.

 

[mundamanu]

Cowboydoc,
You make an important point, I think. There will not be hay, or lumber, or some piece of equipment in that trailer, there will be horses. Getting stuck is one thing. Getting into an accident while pulling a trailer loaded with horses is another. I would hate to know that we hurt, or worse, one or more of our horses because my wife and I wanted to keep some money in the bank.

I believe the 4x4s have it. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Thank you everyone for the help.

 

[Degree]

Subaru has a truck type vehicle called the Baja with the towing capacity of GVWR 4555, horses and a trailer would probably weigh a little less than that probably at that. And best of all AWD is standard and its made by Subaru, they make some excellent products.

 

[mundamanu]

Degree,

Thank you for the heads up on the Subaru Baja, but the Baja has a manufacturer's maximum towing capacity of only 2400 lbs, which means that it is actually less than that.

When I started looking into towing vehicles, it became quickly apparent that properly matching up a vehicle to a proposed towing task is much less straightforward than simply looking at the manufacturers maximum towing capacity, which is different from the GVWR.

When considering towing, all of the following variables need to be considered. The manufacturer sets a limit, or rate (R), for each variable and no single variable can be exceeded.

________________________________________

<font color="blue">GVW (gross vehicle weight) </font> = Vehicle base curb weight* + passengers + cargo + trailer tongue weight (bumper pull) or trailer king pin weight (gooseneck, or fifth-wheel)**

<font color="blue"> GCVW (gross combination vehicle weight)</font> = GVW + Total loaded trailer weight

<font color="blue"> Payload </font> = GVWR minus Base curb weight (when calculating your actual payload, you must include all passengers [-150 already included], any and all cargo, and tongue weight or king pin weight)

You should also keep an eye on axel weight ratings, but I have found that if you don't exceed any of the above, you are unlikely to exceed the axel ratings. However, I have not calculated for a 5th wheel. The rear axel rating may be important when figuring for a 5th wheel.

*Ford's base curb weight includes an empty vehicle with standard options, a full tank of gas, and one 150lb passenger. (I imagine that is a standard calculation, but I do not know)

**For calculation purposes, trailer tongue and king pin weight should be estimated at 10%-15% and 15%-25% of total loaded trailer weight, respectively. Tongue and king pin weight, however, is not important only for towing maximums. The tongue and king pin weights must be within those percentage ranges for safe towing. If your tongue or king pin weight is too heavy or too light, the resulting down or up pressure can cause dangerous lightness in the front end or rear end, respectively.
_____________________________________

It is important to note also that when selecting a towing vehicle, the particular configuration (wheel base [on pick-ups this is most affected by cab style and bed length], engine size and type, drive train, and axel gear ratio) makes a significant difference in a vehicle's maximum towing capacity.

Run the numbers before you buy! Overestimate your cargo; stuff is heavy!

 

[Degree]

*smacks head* im sorry i didnt know what i was talking about.

 

[mundamanu]

Until about a month or two ago, when I started to get serious about buying a truck, I didn't know a GVW or a GAW from a hole in the ground. Tongue weight? I reckoned mine weighs about four ounces, tops, and while I can be a chatty matty if you get me going, I couldn't believe it would be enough to put the trailer load over the top. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[Hank]

<font color="purple"> If you lived in AZ or down south I'd say save the money </font>

Heh, here in AZ you'll use 4wd year round. Many is the dirt road that crosses a very sandy wash, just like driving on a beach. There are often road signs reminding the driver to switch to 4wd.

And if you want to go off-road, it'll be washes and rock-crawling.