Toyota slammed for a change?

[_RaT_]

<font color="blue"> While I do believe they have good quality and fuel economy, </font>

Good quality, no doubt, fuel economy like all manufactuers, it depends on the model. The Lexus 470 (SUV) is lousy. The V8 is very underpowered for this well built, but very heavy vehicle. My sister sold hers with mixed feelings. Solid, smooth but a fuel *****, very sluggish and despite its obvious great build quality went through two water pumps and what they call "the black box" a $1000 part in 2 years of ownership. I am considering a Toyota Tacoma to replace my 93 F250 but would sure like to wait and see if the diesel option will ever become available here in the Toyota. I like the benefits of diesel.

 

[gsxr1100]

Not starting a war here but your SUV is underpowered? It is a heavy suv and most SUV’s are very sluggish. I have yet to be in one that is not; except for the Porsche Cayenne.

Even the 400H is not that great. Even the ML series from MB is not that great. The fuel issue in my eyes is called poor homework. Most SUV’s of this type (V8 etc) are poor on mpg. That is the SUV here, nothing new. Even my dad exploder (2004) only get like 14 mpg and accelerates like a 18 wheeler. That is an SUV here folks.

I do not have a V8 so I do not know about there water pump issues. I can look on the lexus forum if you need. These guys know there stuff, big time.

 

[BobRip]

It strikes my that once low sulfur diesel is here the gasoline/electric hybrid will be in trouble. The diesel has a long history of excellent reliability and life and is simple. The hybrid is very complex, has an expensive battery that will probably have to be replaced (IMHO) at least once in its life and will have teething pains.
However, maybe the gasoline/electric hybrid will pave the way for the diesel/electric hybrid.

The other option which may be coming is the nano-particle structural material. Much lighter in weight.
Weight reduction can really affect fuel economy. Engines today are more effcient, but vehicle weight has gone up. Of course lighter weight may not give the ride that you like, but then you go to active suspension which will have a dial-a-ride adjustment and will lift wheels when bumps are encountered.
Bob Rip

 

[_RaT_]

It will be interesting Bob. I look forward to the future and what new innovations we develop to change our current use of petroleum.

 

[inveresk]

I think the hybrids are already in trouble, BobRip. In one UK motor magazine, a long term test (six months) on a Prius returned an average mileage in the lower forties, no better than most diesels and worse than some. The technology is also expensive because of the additional electrical motor and is effective only on stop/start journeys where the electrical motor has a chance to charge and kick in. It doesn't do well on long hauls. A better long range prospect is the fuel cell. I heard a talk in the summer in Vancouver by Ballard himself on advances in fuel cell engines. These look like a real revolution and achievable for volume production in a decade plus.

 

[RobertN]

It reminds me of the compact 4-door/crewcab trucks. There was big hoopla here when they came out, but they had been available in other countries for years.

Ca is very restrictive, and sets those standards above what any other state/country does. I wonder how far off the European diesels are from the Ca standards?

 

[KAB]

One of the issues with diesels in the US is defferent emission requirements from the EU. A while back I was in a meeting that specified the primary difference between the US and other countries as being 1 polluntant - NOx. The EPA has yet to approve any system to lower NOx. There is a process called urea injection that will overcome that problem but the EPA wants a product that will last 10yrs/150,000mi. The current systems last 10-12000mi before a refill is required.

Here is one place that you can Read More. I have been following this in Automotive News since I would love to have a diesel car.

Kurt

 

[HGM]

Yea, the hybrid technology isnt what many think it is.

The Hybrid (insert brand here) is intended to be a very economical city comuter. If you run the a/c or drive highway speeds it will run mostly on the gas engine with reduced power compared to the gas only version. So, your economy will actually be reduced from the gas only version. These vehicles really shine in the city, where its stop and go and slower speeds, and cooler climates. These conditions are what kills a gas only vehicle, so the hybrid is a good choice for these applications. Unfortunatly, I would estimate that 80% of our population lives outside the city, making this an impractical vehicle for most.

The technology is a great thing, its in its infancy. I would like to see a diesel hybrid in the future, have no reason to think it wont happen. It will be made even better with the comming of the camless engines. The future is bright, even though its tough now....

 

[HGM]

I saw another interesting article in the link KAB added, since I started this post, I'll add it too /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif even though it has morphed a bit from orriginal.. Here tis'
Economy

 

[inveresk]

Interesting article, HGM. You might be interested in this one Prius Long Term Test where the testers best mileage was 48.6 against the 60's claimed by Toyota.